OK... who are your top 3 AMERICAN pairs teams of all time?

OK... who are your top 3 AMERICAN pairs teams of all time?


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AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)

Get it Amber 😝
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OK.. with so many teams through the years any number of combinations could make up the top 10 list.... so here goes.....

There are literally MANY teams that could be listed..

Some that didn't make this list but Im well aware... Kyoko with Jason, Tiffany & Phillip, Brooke & Ben, Caitlin & John, Caydee & John

Also it seems like the further I go back the less people remember them.

With the exception of Alexa & Chris it took at least 2 NATIONAL titles to make the list.

11th on my list would have been Jill Watson & Peter Oppegard. 12th would have been JoJo and Kenneth.


It would be cool if we could start adding more than 10 entrants in polls.

OK, so which teams struck chords with y'all????
 
There was a time when U.S.A. pairs teams had shared or surpassed the bright spotlight usually reserved for the men's and women's disciplines. Hopefully, someday soon, the once highly anticipated pairs event will again experience that same enthusiasm, support and success.
 
Nice poll idea, and thanks @AngieNikodinovLove. It pays to look back and reflect on U.S. pairs history. In fact, several months ago, I did some research on North American pairs history and came up with some interesting facts, which I will share shortly.

I realize you offered a disclaimer, but then you probably should not say "of all time," because you left out several generations of U.S. pairs teams. Just to name a few: Karol & Peter Kennedy (the first U.S. pair & first ever North American pair to win gold at the World championships - 1950, plus they were 4-time World silver medalists, 5-time U.S. champions, and also won 2 U.S. silver medals); JoJo Starbuck & Ken Shelley (3-time U.S. champions, 1 U.S. silver, 1 U.S. bronze, 1971 & 1972 World bronze medalists) who inspired and mentored Tai & Randy (5-time U.S. champions, 2-time U.S. silver medalists, 1977 & 1978 World bronze medalists, 1979 World champions, 1980 Olympians who were primed to vie for gold before Randy's injury); Nancy & Ron Ludington (4-time U.S. champions, 1959 World bronze medalists, 1960 Olympic bronze medalists); Watson/Oppegard (3-time U.S. champions, 1 U.S. silver medal, 1987 World bronze medalists, 1988 Olympic bronze medalists); Mark and Melissa Militano were multiple U.S. medalists: 1 gold, 3 silver, 1 bronze (Melissa also skated with Johnny Johns and won 2 U.S. championships); Cynthia & Ronald Kauffman were 4-time U.S. champions, silver & bronze U.S. medalists, and 3-time World bronze medalists 1966-68; Vivian & Ronald Joseph were U.S. champions in 1960, silver & bronze U.S. medalists, 1965 World silver medalists, and 1964 Olympic bronze medalists.

Another notable pairs team understandably missing from the list, but who were quite successful together were Natasha Kuchiki & Todd Sand - they were paired prior to Meno/Sand shaking up U.S. figure skating with their decision to split from their partners and skate together. Kuchiki/Sand were U.S. champions in 1991, and they also had U.S. silver and bronze medals to go along with their World bronze medal won in 1991.

Of course, there are plenty of U.S. pairs champions we don't know much about, but they are still part of and crucial to U.S. pairs history. So it's a shame there's difficulty in accessing any memories or actual footage. Guess what: Maribel Vinson skated pairs with two different partners: she was U.S. National pairs champion with Thornton Coolidge in 1928 and 1929; then she paired with George Hill and won 3 U.S. silver medals (1930-32) & 4 U.S. gold medals (1933, 1935-37). Vinson did not break through at Worlds or Olympics as a pairs skater with either of her partners. But of course, she had stellar success in singles winning Olympic bronze in 1932, World silver in 1928, and World bronze in 1930, to go along with her record 9 U.S. ladies championship medals, plus a bronze and a silver in ladies at Nationals. We never hear anything about Maribel Vinson's pairs exploits.

Since you only go back to the 1970s with your poll, you should probably say 'Best U.S. pairs of the past 50 years.' :)

I had a difficult time choosing just three teams on your list. I considered Kristi and Rudy who were very good, but they did not stay together long enough to achieve more than 2 U.S. championships and they placed as high as fifth at Worlds two years in a row (1989-90). Urbanski & Marval were 2-time U.S. champions, and they have a U.S. silver medal, but they also did not break through at Worlds or the Olympics, despite being exciting to watch. I think Ina & Dungjen were good together, but Ina/Zimmerman ended up being better. Jenni & Todd had guts for breaking up successful partnerships in order to skate together. And Jenni/Todd achieved a lot: 3-time U.S. champions, 2 U.S. silver medals, 1 World silver medal, 2-time World bronze medalists, in addition to U.S. medals with other partners (& Todd's World bronze with Kuchiki).

IMHO, aside from 3-axel record set by Inoue/Baldwin, Scimeca/Knierim's boffo 4-twist, and McLaughlin/Brubaker's stunning couple of seasons without fulfilling their potential, those teams don't quite seem to belong on a greatest of all time U.S. pairs list. Castelli/Shnapir even less so. If those teams are included, then you way overlooked Evora/Ladwig, Hinzmann/Parchem, Marley/Brubaker, Denney/Coughlin, Yankowskas/Coughlin, et al. And obviously, under the circumstances, the Carruthers surely would seem to deserve more than one vote in this poll as 4-time U.S. champions, U.S. silver medalists, 1984 Olympic silver medalists, 1982 World bronze medalists. :p The poll is obviously based more on recent memories than it is on actual achievements. Hopefully, I made no mistakes in reciting these stats. :D

All things considered, and based on the options on your list, I had to go with Tai/Randy, Jenni/Todd, Ina/Zimmerman (the last U.S. pair to be on the World podium - 2002).
 
Oh, and I forgot to list Ina/Zimmerman stats: 3-time U.S. champions, U.S. silver medalists, 2002 World bronze medalists, 5th at 2002 Olympics.

(Ina was 4th at 1998 Olympics with partner Jason Dungjen, and Ina/Dungjen were 2-time U.S. champions, 3-time U.S. silver medalists).
 
I realize you offered a disclaimer, but then you probably should not say "of all time," because you left out several generations of U.S. pairs teams. Just to name a few: Karol & Peter Kennedy (the first U.S. pair & first ever North American pair to win gold at the World championships - 1950, plus they were 4-time World silver medalists, 5-time U.S. champions, and also won 2 U.S. silver medals); JoJo Starbuck & Ken Shelley (3-time U.S. champions, 1 U.S. silver, 1 U.S. bronze, 1971 & 1972 World bronze medalists) who inspired and mentored Tai & Randy (5-time U.S. champions, 2-time U.S. silver medalists, 1977 & 1978 World bronze medalists, 1979 World champions, 1980 Olympians who were primed to vie for gold before Randy's injury); Nancy & Ron Ludington (4-time U.S. champions, 1959 World bronze medalists, 1960 Olympic bronze medalists); Watson/Oppegard (3-time U.S. champions, 1 U.S. silver medal, 1987 World bronze medalists, 1988 Olympic bronze medalists); Mark and Melissa Militano were multiple U.S. medalists: 1 gold, 3 silver, 1 bronze (Melissa also skated with Johnny Johns and won 2 U.S. championships); Cynthia & Ronald Kauffman were 4-time U.S. champions, silver & bronze U.S. medalists, and 3-time World bronze medalists 1966-68; Vivian & Ronald Joseph were U.S. champions in 1960, silver & bronze U.S. medalists, 1965 World silver medalists, and 1964 Olympic bronze medalists.

Another notable pairs team understandably missing from the list, but who were quite successful together were Natasha Kuchiki & Todd Sand - they were paired prior to Meno/Sand shaking up U.S. figure skating with their decision to split from their partners and skate together. Kuchiki/Sand were U.S. champions in 1991, and they also had U.S. silver and bronze medals to go along with their World bronze medal won in 1991.

Thanks and yeah I know.... I mentioned 2 things (there are only 10 slots available. Maybe admin could lets us add up to 15?)

One being that it seems like when I choose people or teams from way in the past they get little votes cause no one knows then or remembers them.

I did say That Jill and Peter and JoJo and Ken almost made the list.

I thought about Melissa and Jonny Johns but thought there wasn't enough poll space to list too many from 60s/70s and 80s. (again this all comes down to slots and people not knowing them or remembering).

I did think about Natasha and Todd but they only won one US title

And yes my first disclaimer was that I put in Kyoko with John and not Jason.

I personally almost left off M&B because although I was not fond of them soooooo many people liked them (and they also won 2 Nats).

I could have also added the Steiglers just for sentimental reasons but this is a damn tough job here. And unpaid too. LOLLLL
 
Castelli/Shnapir even less so. If those teams are included, then you way overlooked Evora/Ladwig, Hinzmann/Parchem, Marley/Brubaker, Denney/Coughlin, Yankowskas/Coughlin, e

again, poll space....lol

If you think I was gonna leave off Castelli & Shnapir I woulda gotten an ear full from @clairecloutier and I lovessss her.

Evora and Ladwig ALTHOUGH STUNNING... were not on my list. H&P again they needed to have won perhaps 1 US title..one.... Marley & Brubaker were on the scene for less time than I sneeze. As far as the others they are mentioned in disclaimer.

Its a thankless job. LOL

Anywhoooozie, I think my favorite pairs skater has been Yankowskas. Alexa is a VERY close second. Hmmm, both are Delilah prodigies.
 
But of course, she had stellar success in singles winning Olympic bronze in 1932, World silver in 1928, and World bronze in 1930, to go along with her record 9 U.S. ladies championship medals, plus a bronze and a silver in ladies at Nationals.

Don't forget MVO's rather novel 1934 Euros Bronze :D
 
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TBH I don't really like any of them. Tai and Randy came close but they were before my time. So I have watched only two of their performances (one LP 79 and one pro, where they made technical mistakes). I liked the potential of Kristi and Rudy, but that never materialized, due to outside factors. The Carruthers were also before my time, but from this list I reluctantly picked them. Again, I saw only one of their eligible performances (Oly 84) and a few pro or exhibitions.

In-o-u-e (iPad is driving me crazy with auto correct, so I finally had to write her name like this) and Baldwin: I liked only half the pair. Couldn't stand Baldwin. He couldn't land a triple jump if his life depended on it.

Didn't really like I&Z, despite Tamara's work. They did improve a lot, with her coaching but they were gifted with the world bronze in 2002 with a horrible performance (Petrova-Tiknonov wuzrobbed, as usual). Hated their gimmicky Candle Lift.

Scimeca- Knerim: The only good thing about them is the quad split. They are overrated and overhyped.

Meno & Sand tried too hard to become the American G&G, IMO. They should have tried to be themselves. Their inability to deliver when needed also worked against them. They were lucky to win three world medals.

The trouble with US pairs is that they split before they are fully developed. Of course Meno-Sand, S&K are exceptions to that.
 
In-o-u-e (iPad is driving me crazy with auto correct, so I finally had to write her name like this) and Baldwin: I liked only half the pair. Couldn't stand Baldwin. He couldn't land a triple jump if his life depended on it.

LOL, I agree completely regarding the dang autocorrect and that John couldn't land a jump no matter the situation.

But I loves me some Scimerim.
 
Tai and Randy should partner off the ice and talk about "post-skating" life issues for skaters who retire. They have so much life experience (both good and bad) and could share their knowledge. I could see then having a YouTube show. I think they should interview their contemporaries like Linda Fratianne, Lisa Marie-Allen, Charles Tickner, etc. I'm sure these shows would be VERY interesting, especially if people were honest about their lives and what REALLY went on.
 
The Kennedys and Babilonia & Gardner should be in anyone's Top Three, since they're the only American pairs to win a World Championship. My third pick is negotiable. :sekret: :bribe:


I completely agree. I chose Tai and Randy, the Carruthers siblings and Ina/Zimmerman but I would have picked the Kennedys if I could. I do remember Tai and Randy and I was heartbroken when they had to withdraw.
 
Tai & Randy were before my early memories of skating, but I am a fan. I liked the Stieglers & Keauna McLoughlin (no matter who she was skating with). I was also thrilled for Naomi Nari Nam the year she medaled in pairs at Nationals. I only remember seeing Kristi & Rudy once, but I very much enjoyed seeing her skate pairs later on SOI.
 
Ummm. How could Jo Jo Starbuck and Ken Shelley not make this list? 2 Olympics. World medalists, including clear fan favorites for more in 1971 Lyon Worlds?
Jo Jo and Ken were great - and yes, they were clearly fan favorites. They were a team that captured one's attention and held it. I am glad that you mentioned them and put them on the radar, if only for a moment. They should definitely be included when discussing America's top pairs teams - and introduced to generations who are unfamiliar.
 
Using the criteria "Not boring as hell", in order,

1) "The Waitress & The Truck Driver"

2) Tai Babilonia & Randy Gardner

3) Kyoko Ina with John Zimmerman

Starbuck and Shelley are noteworthy.

I used to love Meno and Sand and would have ranked them first in the past, but now I am over porcelain figurines skating on top of music boxes.

Kitty and Peter Carruthers are a turn off because Peter is obnoxious, and has been from his days in the Kiss-n-Cry as the interviewee to his days as the interviewer.
 
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John couldn't land a jump no matter the situation.
But I loves me some Scimerim.

Faulty memory, bad recall or simply pure dislike of John Baldwin?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QCbAYc2GSg 2006 Olympics sp first throw 3-axel ever at the Olympics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT0el2lodoc 2006 Olympics fp

John landed his jumps with no problem, at age 32 and under Olympics pressure. Inoue/Baldwin were an underrated team. At their best, they were very good. Not World championship caliber perhaps, but they did make international pairs history with their throw 3-axel. They were 4CCs champions in 2006, they won Skate America in Fall 2006, plus they have four silver GP medals, two bronze GP medals and a slew of 4th and 5th place finishes on the GP, along with a 4th place finish at the GPF in 2006. They were as high as 4th at Worlds, granted in an Olympic year, but still a notable achievement. And they were 7th at 2006 Olympics. Any of today's U.S. pairs would take such results in a hot minute, no?

John Baldwin appears to me to have had more consistency landing sbs jumps than we've so far seen from Chris Knierim and Mervin Tran, eh. And John was apparently majorly spot-on with sbs back-to-back double-axels. :D

Even at the ages of 33 and 36, Rena and John gave it a good fight at 2010 U.S. Nats in an effort to make another Olympic team. That takes courage. It doesn't matter to me that John doubled out his 3-toe in this performance. They landed their signature throw 3-axel at the end of the program!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHaAkgEChVE
And a great 3-toe landed here by John at 2008 Worlds, even though Rena did not land her throw 3-axel on this occasion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5i3XtoGOs
Great fp at 2006 Worlds for 4th place; John again landed his 3-toe, despite not always being consistent with that jump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVdXpAw8hZw Rena certainly had better results with the throw 3-axel than so far have diva Aliona, and diva Meagan.

John proposed to Rena at 2008 U.S. Nationals on the ice. :) They have a daughter, Liliana Baldwin, born in 2011. And it was reported they were expecting a second daughter in 2015 -- see last paragraph of this IN article:
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015...nside-edge-move-to-cali-gets-miller-motivated
On the cover of Skating magazine: http://www.usfsa.org/content/skating_mag_augsept2006cvr_.jpg
 
What I remember about Inoue and Baldwin is that Inoue looked like 14 year old singles skater trying very hard to look like a "singles skater" and Baldwin had the hair and costume of a voidy European ice dancer.
 
Faulty memory, bad recall or simply pure dislike of John Baldwin?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QCbAYc2GSg 2006 Olympics sp first throw 3-axel ever at the Olympics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT0el2lodoc 2006 Olympics fp

Damn.

I was agreeing with another poster.

Fine he landed a jump every 7 or 8 months. I could go on youtube as well and come back here and post the 147 performances where he #PogoSplats but Daddy's busy.

I also have been critical of Knierim too.

The other poster and I weren't talking about their 3axel which you brought up, which I thought they did great. Good job on Inoue. LOL, don't get me started on that on ice proposal.
 
Rena and John fought for every performance. They never phoned it in, they never gave up. Throughout their competitive career, Rena and John inspired many. They are truly wonderful people deserving respect and admiration. :respec:
 
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^^^ LOL @Karpenko ... :) cute

Anywhooo, I went through this entire thread. I didn't see a single person saying that I&B phoned in any performance. Or that anyone said they had no respect or admiration for them. They were included in a poll for best pair for Gods sake. LOL

I got more than enough drama from New York Housewives the other night, hoping for some chill here.
 
... I was agreeing with another poster... Fine he landed a jump every 7 or 8 months.

You and @Vash01 are overly harsh figure skating fan taskmasters. From snarks about his looks to snarks about his partnership with and his love for Rena, John Baldwin notoriously has received little respect from many skating fans. This, despite his love of the sport and his hanging in there for many years as a singles skater before lucking out in pairing up with Rena on the ice, and in life. It's so easy to be a nitpicky, cranky critique-loving skating fan, innit! Much harder to accomplish what John Baldwin achieved on the ice through dedication, hard work, and spirited determination.

So focus on John's many missteps with his triples, instead of respecting him for being an Olympian who landed that dang 3-toe in some mighty big moments. The fact that Inoue/Baldwin are the only pair team to date to have landed the throw 3-axel cleanly on multiple occasions speaks volumes. Interestingly, Baldwin's sister-in-law, Tiffany Vise, landed the first clean throw quadruple salchow in competition with her former pairs partner, Derek Trent.

U.S. pairs teams have contributed so much to the sport and should be better respected.

I liked only half the pair. Couldn't stand Baldwin. He couldn't land a triple jump if his life depended on it.

I agree completely ... that John couldn't land a jump no matter the situation.

Anywhooo, I went through this entire thread. I didn't see a single person saying that ... they had no respect or admiration for them. They were included in a poll for best pair for Gods sake. LOL

I got more than enough drama from New York Housewives the other night, hoping for some chill here.

Bully for you @ANL for including I/B in the spur of the moment poll. :D If you hoping for some chill, why not just admit you and Vash01 exaggerated about John not being able to land a triple jump "if his life depended on it," and not being able to land a jump "no matter the situation." :duh:

Despite your professed perusal of the thread, clearly you missed Vash01's disdain for John B. Interesting though how you didn't miss the opportunity to agree with Vash01's hyperbole about John's jumping weaknesses.

Still, I thank you ANL for starting this thread, though you may now have some second thoughts about your brilliant idea. :p :lol:

Sorry, but I pick them:
https://youtu.be/aDFE8PsvMP4

This is our greatest American pair ever, everyone else needs to get with it. #pamchenko

:lol: The magic of movie-editing magic!
 
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You and @Vash01 are overly harsh figure skating fan taskmasters. From snarks about his looks to snarks about his partnership with and his love for Rena, John Baldwin notoriously has received little respect from many skating fans. This, despite his love of the sport and his hanging in there for many years as a singles skater before lucking out in pairing up with Rena on the ice, and in life. It's so easy to be a nitpicky, cranky critique-loving skating fan, innit! Much harder to accomplish what John Baldwin achieved on the ice through dedication, hard work, and spirited determination.

So focus on John's many missteps with his triples, instead of respecting him for being an Olympian who landed that dang 3-toe in some mighty big moments. The fact that Inoue/Baldwin are the only pair team to date to have landed the throw 3-axel cleanly on multiple occasions speaks volumes. Interestingly, Baldwin's sister-in-law, Tiffany Vise, landed the first clean throw quadruple salchow in competition with her former pairs partner, Derek Trent.

U.S. pairs teams have contributed so much to the sport and should be better respected.







Bully for you @ANL for including I/B in the spur of the moment poll. :D If you hoping for some chill, why not just admit you and Vash01 exaggerated about John not being able to land a triple jump "if his life depended on it," and not being able to land a jump "no matter the situation." :duh:

Despite your professed perusal of the thread, clearly you missed Vash01's disdain for John B. Interesting though how you didn't miss the opportunity to agree with Vash01's hyperbole about John's jumping weaknesses.

Still, I thank you ANL for starting this thread, though you may now have some second thoughts about your brilliant idea. :p :lol:



:lol: The magic of movie-editing magic!

I never criticized his looks. I only criticized his inconsistency/inability to land triple jumps. I was just as harsh on Morozov (former partner of Savchenko and Volosozhar). If someone is to be respected as an athlete, I do set some standards. Just making the Olympic team is not enough for me in most cases (exceptions would be someone born with a disability or coming back from a serious injury or illness). The two pairs men were not up to par with their partners and it brought down the results for the team. I am not criticizing them as persons (I don't know them) or their looks (they have no control over it). However, if you ask me if they make my favorite pairs, the answer is No because they did not deliver. In the case of I&B, I will say that I highly respected their throw triple axel which they landed more times than any other pair in history, but that makes it even more disappointing to me because had John been better at landing the triples, that team could have won world medals.
 
:lol: Calm yourselves, people ... calm yourselves. Sometimes a post is just a post, not an invitation to battle it out. ;) Every pairs team included in the poll, were in their own unique way, fabulous! :respec:
 
American pairs only stand out to me when they landed the 3A or did the quad twist. Hopefully one day there will be some whole package team coming...
 
^^ Exactly how long have you been actually watching/following U.S. pairs teams @Meoima? There's been a drought of U.S. pairs on the Worlds and Olympics podium, yes, for the past 15 years. But U.S. pairs have historically made many contributions to the pairs discipline, and even during this long drought, the U.S. has had some decent teams in the second tier. I/B's contributions with the throw 3-axel have not yet been surpassed. And note, there are other countries who are currently doing well in pairs who have experienced Worlds & Olympics medal droughts in the past. If you must speak from limited current knowledge mode, then you should qualify your generalizations. And thank you. Please take a gander at my post #3, for some historical perspective.

I never criticized his looks. I only criticized his inconsistency/inability to land triple jumps. I was just as harsh on Morozov (former partner of Savchenko and Volosozhar). If someone is to be respected as an athlete, I do set some standards. Just making the Olympic team is not enough for me in most cases (exceptions would be someone born with a disability or coming back from a serious injury or illness). The two pairs men were not up to par with their partners and it brought down the results for the team. I am not criticizing them as persons (I don't know them) or their looks (they have no control over it). However, if you ask me if they make my favorite pairs, the answer is No because they did not deliver. In the case of I&B, I will say that I highly respected their throw triple axel which they landed more times than any other pair in history, but that makes it even more disappointing to me because had John been better at landing the triples, that team could have won world medals.

No explanations needed @Vash01. I just take exception to the hyperbole against John B. I didn't say you personally made comments against his looks, but of course there have been a number of snide uncalled for comments over the years in some quarters re John's looks and his partnership with Rena. I think John is a nice-looking chap, who has achieved notable success in skating through dedication and hard work. I realize that it's disappointing for fans when pairs skaters miss their sbs jumps. And U.S. pairs fans have had to deal with that phenomenon quite often. Here's hoping that there will be a continued turn-around for many of our pairs teams re successful consistency with sbs jumps this coming season!

In regard to your belief that Rena/John might have won World medals had he been more consistent at landing his triples, I'm not so sure that would have been possible. They may have pulled up to higher placements at Worlds perhaps with more consistent sbs jumps. Their best showing at Worlds was 4th in 2006 with a throw 3-axel, and in an Olympics year where two top-contending teams did not compete at Worlds (Tot/Mar & Shen/Zhao). I/B's other Worlds results include three 10th place finishes, an 11th place finish, and an 8th place finish. At the Olympics in 2006, I/B finished in 7th place with a successful attempt at 3-axel in the sp and a failed attempt in the fp. So, their 4th place finish at Worlds that year was an exciting result, but again in the absence of two top teams who had been on the podium at the Olympics. Anyway, regardless of any skaters' overall improvements, the sport is so rife with politics which always has to be factored into results.

Meanwile, my apologies @AngieNikodinovLove. There was no intention on my part for you to take my vehement support of John B and Rena personally. As I said, I do appreciate you starting this thread. And Rena/John have grabbed 7 votes, which is great for this poll. :)
 
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