"No one knows Mirai's mirai" Nagasu cheer thread

[olympic]

9.8 vs 9.6.

9.8 for the 3A-2T?

 

[bardtoob]

9.8 for the 3A-2T?

Remember that a 2T has a very low base value.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Coco was asking for the short program requirements. I don't believe Mirai would be able to do two triple Axels in a short.

 

[bardtoob]

I think it has been stated that Mirai would consider a 3A-2T over a 3F-3T. Does anyone know the BV for each?

9.8 vs 9.6.

That's surprisingly (ok, maybe 'disappointingly') similar.

9.8 for the 3A-2T?

Remember that a 2T has a very low base value.

3A-2T = 8.5 + 1.3 = 9.8

3F + 3T = 5.3 + 4.3 = 9.6

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

9.8 vs 9.6.

Gee, one would think it'd be a little higher. Imo a 3A should be worth a little more, at least in the women's event. They should also consider raising the value of a 2T when it's on the back end of such difficult jumps. Jmo.

 

[mag]

Gee, one would think it'd be a little higher. Imo a 3A should be worth a little more, at least in the women's event.

The 3A is worth 3.2 points more than the 3F. That is a lot. The reason the values for the combos are so close is because in one case the second jump is a 2T (worth 1.3) and in the other case the second jump is a 3T (worth 4.3). Pretty much any kid, with enough training, starting early enough, can get a 2T. Pretty much any skater landing triple jumps can put a 2T on anything. It is the 3A that is the tricky bit. If Mirai lands the 3A she will have no problem putting a 2T on the end.

ETA: I should say WHEN Mirai lands the 3A, because I am sure she will. Given the trouble the 3F/3T has given her, I think the 3A+2T might be a better strategy. Two 3A's in her LP should also help her PCS.

 

[Maximillian]

I've always found the valuing of jumps with regards to combinations to be problematic under IJS for the very fact that a triple jump being done in the second part of a 3/3 combo has the same value as it would were it done as a solo jump, there is no taking into account the extra difficulty of doing that triple on the back end of another triple. I realize that the limit on number of jump passes and Zayak rule sort of acts as a leveller, still...unless of course this is, in fact, addressed in IJS and I just missed it, which is entirely possible...

With that said, I think the 3A base value (at least for the ladies) should be a bit higher than it is at the moment, because it is on such another level for the ladies.

 

[mag]

@Maximillian ITA about combos. I think that sequences should be the individual values added together and that combos should have the value added and then an additional 10%. I also think that if the second jump in a combo has more revolutions that the first, 2A+3T or 2T+3T for example, there should be an additional percentage. That would more accurately represent the increased difficulty.

 

[Coco]

But with the limitation on the number of jumps and the number of combinations, a skater who can put a triple on the back of a combination has a huge advantage in both base value and goe.

 

[VGThuy]

I do think skaters who go for harder combinations should get rewarded for it because right now, TES base value is the same between skaters so long as the the jumps are the same, despite if someone is actually doing harder combos. I think IJS should more accurately reflect that sort of difficulty. That said, one thing you can respect Eteri skaters for is that they do go for Flip and Lutz 3/3s (while both Tanoing and Ripponing) when last Olympic quad it was 3toe/3toes and 2axel/3toe to get those 7 triples in and those base values up.

 

[bardtoob]

That said, one thing you can respect Eteri skaters for is that they do go for Flip and Lutz 3/3s (while both Tanoing and Ripponing) when last Olympic quad it was 3toe/3toes and 2axel/3toe to get those 7 triples in and those base values up.

Well, the natural progression for ladies is the 3A, but Eteri's students have to have difficult entrances, exit, and air positions for the 3Lz and 3F and will have to skip directly to 4T and 4S because none of them have anything better than a passable 2A, regardless of what the GOEs say . . . Then again, who needs a good 2A when skaters like Medvedeva move across the ice like a solo ice dancer.

Of course, this is good for Mirai right now because Mirai's skating is so different from Medvedeva, with Mirai having bigger jumps and better spin positions; Medvedeva can match Mirai's spin positions but often her elbows and knees still look like they could poke someone's eyes out . . . Then again, Medvedeva moves across the ice like a solo ice dancer.

 

[bardtoob]

Early word from the Japan Open:

"Nagasu double footed the 3A but nailed the rest of elements nicely. 72.57+62,12=134.69!"

https://twitter.com/pandaatlarge/status/916513281841311744

"Triple axel with -1 -2 GOE full rotated"

https://twitter.com/kovko2011Linux/status/916520111174934530

Apparently, per an FSU members Twitter feed, Mirai did:

Mirai Nagasu: 3A(so)、3F+3T、3S, 2A+3T+2T(?)、3Lz、3Lo+2T、3Lo 134.69

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...rnival-on-ice-gala.101408/page-3#post-5147591

ETA:

Mirai Nagasu 2017 Japan Open LP - two uploads

https://youtu.be/Jd0SOgf7_nw

https://youtu.be/L-NybBWJDCE

 

[GullyGirl84]

Mirai should be very proud of her respectable showing at the Japan Open (so much better than her previous showings there), against such a stacked field-she beat Marin and Karen!

She looked hella nervous throughout the skate, I would love to see her hold out the inna bauer and charlotte longer, like she did at the Detroit Open. I almost wonder if the fitting the 8 triples in is difficult in making sure she doesn't finish after the music, so she rushes/rushes more when she gets nervous. But the jumps looked great! She did not let the imperfect landing of the triple axel attempt rattle her, and I think it was important for her to show rotated triples before the grand prix. Even though it's a cheese event, 72 tes is nothing to sneeze at. She looked happy and surprised by the score.

So does this mean that she is back to repeating the loop/doing the loop in combination rather than repeating the flip (or repeating the lutz? I feel like I've seen several iterations of the layout, and it makes me wondering which layout she consistently practices or if she changes it).

 

[Jarrett]

Huh? She didn't look nervous at all to me. She lost some points on the spins levels but the footwork was called level 4 so that is good. I think this was a great skate before the Grand Prix in two weeks. Hope she doesn't get too jetlagged flying all over the place. Maybe she is staying in Japan before Russia but I doubt it.

 

[GullyGirl84]

Huh? She didn't look nervous at all to me. She lost some points on the spins levels but the footwork was called level 4 so that is good. I think this was a great skate before the Grand Prix in two weeks. Hope she doesn't get too jetlagged flying all over the place. Maybe she is staying in Japan before Russia but I doubt it.

Ok, I'll go back and re-watch, I only watched the broadcast stream and that was my first impression-maybe it was just the long stare at the beginning and I'm misremembering that she had the tense look throughout Thankfully, this is not a program that calls for a lot of facial expressions frankly.

It's a GREAT start before the grand prix! And people can shut up (at least for a few weeks) about her jump rotations, since everything here was rotated. I don't think it can be overstated how much guts it takes for Mirai to attempt 8 triples, including a triple axel to start. She did her job for team North America and earned her Japan Open paycheck. Definitely a rough travel schedule though, I don't know how these skaters do it.

 

[bardtoob]

I have just letting it sink in . . . Mirai fully rotated an eight (8) triple jump layout that included a 3A

2017 Japan Open Ladies FS Protocols:
http://www.jsfresults.com/InterNational/2017-2018/japanopen/data0205.pdf

The only lady with a higher base value at the 2017 Japan Open was Zagitova, and she got that by having all seven (7) jump passes past the 2 minute mark for bonus while including repeated 3Lz and 3F.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I have just letting it sink in . . . Mirai fully rotated an eight (8) triple jump layout that included a 3A

2017 Japan Open Ladies FS Protocols:
http://www.jsfresults.com/InterNational/2017-2018/japanopen/data0205.pdf

The only lady with a higher base value at the 2017 Japan Open was Zagitova, and she got that by having all seven (7) jump passes past the 2 minute mark for bonus while including repeated 3Lz and 3F.

ISN'T THAT AMAZING! And beat the US Champion......

 

[bardtoob]

ISN'T THAT AMAZING! And beat the US Champion......

TBH I still think Gracie Gold's 2016 US Nationals LP is still the benchmark.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Mirai is right where she needs to be. The main accomplishment for me was steeling her nerves against some important competitors - building her resume. She's capable of beautiful skating and should be able to significantly improve PCS over next months.

 

[bardtoob]

STICK WITH THE PLAN, MIRAI. YOU HAVE NOT ARRIVED YET!

At Japan Open 2017:

- Mirai's speed improved and attack, but there was still some room for improvement
- Mirai's choreography improved, but she still needs more flair and command.
- Mirai's jump improved because there was no underrotations, but now she needs no underrotations and clean 3A
- Mirai's spins need improvement because she lost spin levels that she had in the past

I want her to take deep breathes, use Tom's well thought out training plan, and take one step at a time to where she gets a clean program with:

- Fully rotated jumps
- Cleanly landed jumps
- All Level 4 Spins
- All Level 4 Sequences
- Flair, Command, ATTACK in the choreography

Then she needs to repeat . . . again and again until after the 2018 World Team Trophy.

Tough love, Baby! I want Mirai to become the most awesomest skater ever . . . and ride the I, Tonya wave to media attention and fame and fortune.

PS: I like that Mirai's 3A is looking more like a power jump a la Midori, Tonya, and Liza rather than an elegant jump a la Mao cuz that's my personal taste. More POWER, Baby!

 

[Jarrett]

Mirai's exhibition from Japan, went for axel but fell. Looked a little off in the setup turn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGkdNakyjk I still can't believe Mirai is actually doing this choreography. It is something I would have never expected but I guess she is 24 happily with a boyfriend. Good for you Mirai! Hopefully she can bring some more flare to her competitive programs.

 

[GullyGirl84]

Mirai's exhibition from Japan, went for axel but fell. Looked a little off in the setup turn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGkdNakyjk I still can't believe Mirai is actually doing this choreography. It is something I would have never expected but I guess she is 24 happily with a boyfriend. Good for you Mirai! Hopefully she can bring some more flare to her competitive programs.

Thank you for the video. For all the criticism that Mirai (mostly deservedly) has gotten about being stone-faced in her competitive programs over the years, can we all agree that her exhibitions have been pretty damn amazing and enjoyable over the past quad? Have really enjoyed her Demons, I put a Spell on You, Shake it Off, and now this (despite hating the song). Love the ponytail.

 

[mag]

Mirai's exhibition from Japan, went for axel but fell. Looked a little off in the setup turn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGkdNakyjk I still can't believe Mirai is actually doing this choreography. It is something I would have never expected but I guess she is 24 happily with a boyfriend. Good for you Mirai! Hopefully she can bring some more flare to her competitive programs.

I am confused what being "..happily with a boyfriend..." has to do with her doing this exhibition?

I like it and the costume is fabulous! Good for Mirai going for the 3A every chance she gets!!

 

[bardtoob]

I am confused what being "..happily with a boyfriend..." has to do with her doing this exhibition?

Because her life's purpose is fulfilled

I will never understand how getting a significant other is a "goal".

 

[toddlj]

I'll play devil's advocate (always a fun game.) Being in a healthy relationship CAN bring you stability, confidence, and make you less self-conscious. #BoyfriendsCanBeAwesome

ETA: I'm happy if Mirai's happy.

 

[Jarrett]

Because her life's purpose is fulfilled

I will never understand how getting a significant other is a "goal".

And who said it was a "goal?" I was trying to focus on her seemingly being happy and confident with most aspects of her life which anyone would clearly see from her social media account including being in a relationship, her friends, dogs, skating and random thing she receives in the mail. Years ago she has said in interviews that she isn't a sexy skater and feels awkward flirting with the audience in choreography and that is all this program is about and being confident with herself.

 

[bardtoob]

And who said it was a "goal?" I was trying to focus on her seemingly being her happy . . .

Oy . . . Maybe I started it, but let's not bitch about it because my intention was not to argue or correct or change your mind . . . I was commentating on a long held belief that a measure of success for a girl is getting a man.

 

[Spun Silver]

And who said it was a "goal?" I was trying to focus on her seemingly being her happy and confident with most aspects of her life which anyone would clearly see from her social media account including being in a relationship, her friends, dogs, skating and random thing she receives in the mail. Years ago she has said in interviews that she isn't a sexy skater and feels awkward flirting with the audience in choreography and that is all this program is about and being confident with herself.

I understood what you meant when I reread your statement. Being grownup and having a boyfriend has given her the confidence to project a new sexy side of herself that we all (I think) are enjoying. I dont see a problem.

 

[mag]

And who said it was a "goal?" I was trying to focus on her seemingly being happy and confident with most aspects of her life which anyone would clearly see from her social media account including being in a relationship, her friends, dogs, skating and random thing she receives in the mail. Years ago she has said in interviews that she isn't a sexy skater and feels awkward flirting with the audience in choreography and that is all this program is about and being confident with herself.

I also don't want to argue. I am just fairly sure if Mirai were a man, there would be no mention of his girl friend having anything to do with his ability to perform a particular exhibition number. I know many will think I am being over sensitive, but given so much of what is happening in the world these days I think it is important to call out these types of statements even if the person making them doesn't mean anything negative by them.

 

[Jarrett]

I also don't want to argue. I am just fairly sure if Mirai were a man, there would be no mention of his girl friend having anything to do with his ability to perform a particular exhibition number. I know many will think I am being over sensitive, but given so much of what is happening in the world these days I think it is important to call out these types of statements even if the person making them doesn't mean anything negative by them.

I also don't want to argue then argue. What a joke. Maybe we wouldn't say that because most of the gay men in figure skating don't have girlfriends and as a gay man myself I wouldn't call any of them sexy. And yes you are over sensitive.