New York City Terror Attack

AxelAnnie said:
They are Islamic Terrorists.

Do you have a better name for them?
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Terrorists.

There are many kinds of terrorists and they all want to kill people. Some want to kill specific people, some just want to kill anyone.

allezfred said:
I'm betting it's harder to rent a truck than it is to buy a gun in most parts of the U.S.
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You'd be wrong about that. It's not hard at all to rent a truck. You just need a driver's license and a credit card. You can even do it with a debit card but that is harder.

Guns are easier to get in the US than I'd like but they aren't given out on street corners like candy either.
 
Car rental in USA
https://www.immihelp.com/newcomer/car-rental-tips.html

You will need valid driver's license and credit card to rent a car.
Most companies won't let you rent a car if you don't have a credit card.
Others might ask you to make a monetary deposit.
Most companies require that all drivers are at least 25 years old.
In some states (one is NY) valid proof of liability insurance is required.
 
AxelAnnie said:
Diversity Visa is defined as:
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My parents went through the process, so I don't give a damn about what it is defined as. (What has the official definition to do with anything anyway?)

Green Card Lottery is misleading. When you get selected, you can apply for an immigrant visa. That's it. That's all you can do.
Once you apply, you can get rejected or accepted. When you get accepted (after a few months), you are invited for an interview. After the interview (which happens another several months later), you can still get rejected. If you don't, you get an immigrant visa (which takes another few months). With that immigrant visa you can then apply for a Green Card and while it rarely happens, you can still get rejected for the Green Card.
Each application comes with forms that you have to fill out and send in, including proving that you don't have a criminal record (in Germany, the police sends an official document which states that) and listing all of the countries you have visited in the last 15? years, all of your jobs, your parents names and professions, birth certificate, marriage license (if applicable), school degrees..., there's fingerprinting (twice, I think, once at the interview site and once when you enter the US with your immigrant visa and no, it's not the normal tourist fingerprinting, it's done at a separate location), and a health check.
And those are the vetting procedures for Germany. I have no idea about the vetting procedures for other countries but it wouldn't be unusual for them to be stricter.



The Las Vegas shooter is a mass murderer, not a terrorist.
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Why? Because he was white? Because he was a Christian and not a Muslim?


Whether born in the US or abroad, Islamic Terrorists are a real threat. Part of stopping that would be stopping the diversity visa program.
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Why?


Or, better yet, stopping all immigration of people who cannot produce verifiable paperwork.
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Verifiable paperwork? What are you even talking about? If he managed to enter with fake papers then it's not the fault of the diversity lottery. It's the fault of DHS/CBP. They are supposed to vet the papers they get send. That is their job.


Do you think Germany is going to waive the citizenship requirements for Massot? Of course not. Why should we?
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:huh: Yes, why should we? No one waived anything for the Uzbek, so what does that have to with anything?


You want to talk about stopping terrorism? How about the fact that under Trump's budget nearly all federal funding to NYPD was eradicated?
https://twitter.com/Unpersuaded112/status/925544445260566530
 
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allezfred said:
I'm betting it's harder to rent a truck than it is to buy a gun in most parts of the U.S.
Click to expand...

You must have a driver's license and a credit card to rent a truck. To buy a gun, all you need is Ca$h. Of course they accept credit/debit cards I am sure, but it's not a requirement.
 
ballettmaus said:
Why? Because he was white? Because he was a Christian and not a Muslim?
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Because he didn't have a political motive.

There are plenty of white Christian male terrorists that various people were reluctant to name as such because of their own bigotry but this isn't one of them.

On a different note, this is an interesting article from Vox about why these attacks are getting more frequent. It's because ISIS is losing power. They've pretty much lost their state. So now they are trying to get these lone wolves to attack where they are instead of coming to Syria. Whether these attacks have the impact and effect that ISIS wants is pretty much up to us and how we respond to them:

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/11/1/16591458/new-york-attack-isis-islamic-state-strategy
 
MacMadame said:
Because he didn't have a political motive.
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Maybe he doesn't fit the official definition but he still inflicted plenty of terror and he terrorized everyone who happened to be around the hotel at the time. And the likes of him are as much of a threat to people's lives as politically motivated terrorists are. Maybe even more so. We tend to hear about thwarted terrorist attacks. I don't remember that I've heard about thwarted mass shootings. That doesn't meant that it doesn't happen, it just seems to happen less often.
 
MacMadame said:
You'd be wrong about that. It's not hard at all to rent a truck. You just need a driver's license and a credit card. You can even do it with a debit card but that is harder.

Guns are easier to get in the US than I'd like but they aren't given out on street corners like candy either.
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Do you need to have a licence to buy a gun though?
 
Why are we talking about "guns", when this time it is a truck?..... oh! it's the typical Lefty tactic to push "lefty issues", right?..... :D
As if any of what we on either side say on FSU affects policies or changes outcomes, right?

allezfred said:
Do you need to have a licence to buy a gun though?
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https://www.thenationsgunshow.com/firearm-purchase-requirements.html

What do I need to bring to purchase a firearm?
You need ONE (1) form of ID
  • One must be a government issued State Photo ID with current address
    • an original, not a copy
    • must be obtained at least 30 days prior to attempted purchase
  • The second ID must have a matching address. It can be:
    • current lease, utility bill, telephone bill, voter registration card, bank check, passport, automobile registration, hunting license, or fishing license
Exceptions
  • All handgun buyers in North Carolina must have a permit from their local sheriff or concealed carry permit
  • For Maryland residents, please call your State police or a FFL dealer.

In the mean time, new info:

- Saipov is not cooperating. He requested to hang an ISIS flag in his hospital room, to support his affiliation.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...sis-flag-in-his-hospital-room/article/2639334

- He is married with 3 children, wife is also Uzbek, lives in NJ.
https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/nozima-odilova-sayfullo-saipov-wife/

- Other Uzbek immigrants know him as either quiet, or aggressive.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-york-terror-attack-suspect-sayfullo-saipov-friends-neighbors/
 
allezfred said:
You need a driving licence to buy a gun.
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You need a permit to own a gun just like you need a license to own a car (legally).

You can rent a truck, but you can't rent a gun.

But please don't let me stop you from continuing to look shtoopid as it is entertaining :watch:
 
The UK added further checks when hiring vans after the London attacks.

It's now much more like money laundering documents you need a driver's licence plus two further forms of ID that prove your home address (utility bill, bank statements etc) and you have to provide them recently dated and in person. If you're still on the old paper driver's licence then you need a photographic ID which means your passport.
 
Except an idiot POTUS tweeting he deserves the death penalty already taints a jury. I get he doesn't know the law nor has any respect for the law, but he just made the prosecution's case a nightmare. Somebody needs to take all his phones away like you would a 5 year old. Going to be really easy to sit a non-biased panel.

Besides, I personally think this guy should spend the rest of his life in prison as some guy named Bubba's bitch. That sends a much stronger message than making him into a martyr.
 
rfisher said:
Except an idiot POTUS tweeting he deserves the death penalty already taints a jury. I get he doesn't know the law nor has any respect for the law, but he just made the prosecution's case a nightmare.
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NO. KIDDING. The jury selection is now probably going to turn into a nightmare.

After proper due process and conviction, I will be fine with the death penalty for him if that is decided. I felt the same way about Tim McVeigh, Dzhokar Tsarnaev, and Dylann Roof.

But what I would give to be able to change Trump’s Twitter password.......
 
ballettmaus said:
Maybe he doesn't fit the official definition but he still inflicted plenty of terror and he terrorized everyone who happened to be around the hotel at the time.
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The movie The Omen terrorized me so much I had to sleep with the light on for a week. Does that make the people who made that movie terrorists? :rolleyes:

Things can be horrible without being terrorist attacks. A terrorist is someone who inflicts mayhem on innocent people in the name of a cause. It's not anyone or anything that causes terror.

ballettmaus said:
I don't remember that I've heard about thwarted mass shootings. That doesn't meant that it doesn't happen, it just seems to happen less often.
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I have definitely heard about thwarted mass shootings. As for how often each happens:

You don't hear about either much because "nothing happened" is not news. So when some kid planned to bring explosives and a gun to a school in our area and other kids reported him and stopped him, of course, it was on the nightly news. It's not going to become international news though like it would have if he'd succeeded.

And information about thwarted terrorist attacks is often limited due to security reasons.

Bottom line: what we hear about and what we remember hearing are not reliable indicators of how much it happens.

allezfred said:
Do you need to have a licence to buy a gun though?
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You need a background check (mostly). And a driver's license (or similar ID).

So it is harder.
 
antmanb said:
The UK added further checks when hiring vans after the London attacks.

It's now much more like money laundering documents you need a driver's licence plus two further forms of ID that prove your home address (utility bill, bank statements etc) and you have to provide them recently dated and in person. If you're still on the old paper driver's licence then you need a photographic ID which means your passport.
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Those are all easy to provide and easy to fake. This guy was an Uber driver, and lived in NJ. I am sure the ID was no problem.
 
rfisher said:
Except an idiot POTUS tweeting he deserves the death penalty already taints a jury. I get he doesn't know the law nor has any respect for the law, but he just made the prosecution's case a nightmare. Somebody needs to take all his phones away like you would a 5 year old. Going to be really easy to sit a non-biased panel.

Besides, I personally think this guy should spend the rest of his life in prison as some guy named Bubba's bitch. That sends a much stronger message than making him into a martyr.
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So the guy in New York should get the death penalty for driving a truck into a crowd of people, but nothing on the guy in Charlottesville who ran down people with a car. I don't think the difference is that one used a truck and one used a car.
 
skatesindreams said:
The POTUS doesn't seem to know that George HW Bush endorsed and approved the visa he now condemns.
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I am sure President Trump is well aware that the program went into effect in 1990 under Pres. Bush The Older.
The House and Senate were both Democrat Majorities.

But the most important point to remember that this was pre 9/11. The world was a different place then....certainly America was.

As to tainting the jury pool..........what? People missed what happened? People don't know the law?

I have two things for you to ponder:

1. New York abolished the Death Penalty in 2007. (not that this guy does not deserve death)
2. To listen to the press, and certainly FSUers.............Trump is the most hated man in America. How could he, then, taint anything?
 
allezfred said:
#ThreadDrift #DealWithIt

You need a driving licence to buy a gun. Makes perfect sense. :p
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You need a government ID and DL is the most common one. I always use my US passport... has better foto.. and the guys at the gun shop are cute...;)

Allez... don't worry about permits and id's! If you come to visit i'd let you have my truck and a gun... :lol:

Winnipeg said:
He was an Uber driver...........:scream:
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Ubers are getting a reputation, including robbing customers and rape... :lol:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-sex-crime-uber-20170626-story.html
http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/rideshare-incidents
https://fymhotsauce.rocks/blogs/news/my-uber-driver-robbed-me-so-i-took-uber-to-court-and-won
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...report-sex-attacks-by-drivers-says-met-police
https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/arti...t-the-center-of-another-rape-allegation-storm
 
IMO, Nothing I can say will ever change your POV/opinion, AA; or, allow you to understand why I feel as do.
Are you open to ideas other than your own?

From the evidence available to me, I believe that President Trump "taints" most of what he becomes invoved in; to the detriment of everyone.
I would like to feel differently about the person who is the President of the US.
As of now, I cannot.
 
AxelAnnie said:
1. New York abolished the Death Penalty in 2007. (not that this guy does not deserve death)
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He's being charged under Federal Terrorism statues, so the death penalty is very much in play. The President's statement will certainly be made an issue in jury selection and the penalty phase, or at least should be made an issue by any decent defense attorney.
 
skatingguy said:
He's being charged under Federal Terrorism statues, so the death penalty is very much in play. The President's statement will certainly be made an issue in jury selection and the penalty phase, or at least should be made an issue by any decent defense attorney.
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Defendants certainly deserve a fair trial.... but this is kind of cut and dry case. He killed people intentionally, does not deny it, proud of it, and regrets not being able to proceed further onto the Brooklyn bridge to continue to kill people as he originally planned.

No defense attorney can help him now, or find mitigating circumstances; and no politician can make his penalty softer or harsher.
 
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