New USFS High Performance Development Team Camp

[overedge]

I know that this has been partially discussed already, as part of the formal report of actions by USFS in 2017-18, but I was very interested in the rationale presented by USFS for this new venture. It's described starting on page 70 of this document:
http://www.usfsa.org/content/2017-18 Combined Report of Action.pdf

I totally agree that there is a retention problem (not just in the US) in keeping skaters involved in the sport, as competitors, from intermediate onward. But the USFS rationale seems to put a lot of weight on parents - their alleged expectations for medals and their alleged desire for short-term success over longevity in the sport. IME there are a lot of other factors around that age/competitive level that make skaters leave the sport - cost being one, but also physical issues (e.g. puberty, limits of physical ability), frustration with having to focus so intently on one activity to stay competitive, wanting to focus on school, wanting to have more free time or hang out with their friends, lack of ice time/appropriate coaching, and so on. USFS can't control all of these things, obviously, but it's odd that these aren't really acknowledged in this rationale.

It also strikes me that USFS, and other federations, are maybe stoking this medal mania with the focus in their own publicity on Olympians, Team USA members, national medalists, etc. I get that this is necessary to attract TV and sponsor $$$, but it somehow seems odd to indirectly criticize parents wanting their kids to win medals when USFS itself seems to celebrate medals as the main measure of success.

I think the idea of a high performance camp is a really good one, in terms of giving skaters the encouragement they might need to continue, and maybe giving their parents a more realistic idea of what progress and development should look like. I hope it works out, but, as the rationale points out, placement at a national level at an early age isn't an indicator of future success. I hope that selection for the camp doesn't turn out to discourage skaters who aren't chosen, but who might be enthusiastic about continuing in the sport and might blossom as competitors later on.

 

[Tavi]

There’s so much to digest in that report, that I can’t say much sensible yet. But one thing struck me immediately: I wonder if one high performance camp annually is enough - would one every couple of months work better, or is too much to fit into busy family schedules? Also, to encourage diversity, could they not pay expenses for kids from low income families?

 

[Frida80]

Ironically, I just posted about this issue on GS. This is a short version of why USFS needed to do away with Juvenile — Novice Nationals.

The problem is very deep and goes much further than just senior ladies. However, it is an awful domino effect that bubbled up to the top skaters before it was finally addressed.

The problem doesn’t lie with skaters but coaches. A coach at all levels has a tough job. They need to bring back some sort of credentials, i.e. medals, that make them more valuable than other coaches around them. At low levels that means a coach that has skaters compete at nationals or medal at nationals, even if that is at the juvenile level, they can charge much more than coaches that haven’t. The truth is most low level coaches that teach at learn to skate and 6.0 and early IJS levels are abundant. There are tons of them at rinks all over the country. In my neck of the woods, NC, we have a few in each of the local rinks.

What happens is that to ensure they can attract more students, especially students with parents that will pay more and have more talent, they now have to hedge their bets. If they push at student to learn new tech and they falter, that means that they don’t get a medal and they can’t attract new students. So some coaches encourage their students to stick with easier jumps, ensuring they don’t fall, and then focus on other things. They backload, add tanos, improve spins, and improve artistry. Judges loved it. They often pushed up the components score to have them beat skaters with higher level jumps. When did this happen?


2013: Intermediate ladies —Tessa Hong with 2 2As and a 3S< beat Alexia Paganini who had both a 3T and 3S.
2014: Juvenile girls — Iris Zhao her highest level jump being a 2Lz beats three girls competing with 2 2A
2015: A medalist at intermediate wins are bronze with only doubles. All the other medalist, including pewter have 2A and at least 1 triple.

Novice — the winner has only basic triples 3T and 3S beating the silver medalist with all her triples.

At can tell you other examples, but you can see that this is a common system. And the effects were terrible. The next year after a girl with no 2A won at Juvenile nationals in 2014, the very next year virtually no girl did a 2A at nationals. The one that did was downgraded. In just one year, having a winner without a 2A at Juvenile nationals had affected competition that much. It was devastating.

I have no doubt that all girls would learn every jump they could if left to their own devices. I’ve watched so many girls with an incredible drive and motivation. However, coaches need wins. And it’s very risky to have a skater attempt hard jumps. The truth is in order for a skater to master triples and triple triples, it means possible years of skater forfeiting medals. It can be frustrating for coaches that want to have a student help the attract more students, and even more frustrating for parents shelling out tons of money.


But that’s the best way to hone future champions. Skaters should be taking risk, attempting hard jumps and challenging themselves. If they don’t, skaters rarely progress. I’ve watched a ton of “place it safe” medalist fail to progress at junior and senior level. It backfires big time. These skaters struggle with jumps for years to come as well as consistency.

Occasionally talented skaters managed to emerge in spite of this system, but it’s clear that not enough of them are emerging to compete at a International level.


But trusting a few strong skaters to emerge with such a laissez faire system is risky, since coaches at lower levels aren’t playing a long game. So they did away with nationals for everyone but juniors and seniors, taking away those bragging rights that coaches and parents love so much. Hopefully the bonus system as well as new actions to develop national competitors will work.

 

[Dobre]

I really disagree with doing away with Novice Nationals. Sorry. I just think there is a great deal of value in getting athletes out there in a high pressure situation & seeing who can deliver.

Neither Nadia Comaneci nor Kim Zmeskal were the top athletes in practice or at camp. They were the top athletes when the pressure was on.

It's hard enough on many athletes when they enter the depth of a JGP competition for the first time. Imagine not even having Novice Nationals to prepare you. I just don't believe those Japanese & Russian ladies are becoming the competitors they are based on solely camp. They are also going out there and competing against each other. 75 junior ladies, reportedly, at the event Yuna Aoki just won this summer?

I do think a high-performance camp can be a great thing. But I don't think it should be an either/or scenario.

 

[Frida80]

I really disagree with doing away with Novice Nationals. Sorry. I just think there is a great deal of value in getting athletes out there in a high pressure situation & seeing who can deliver.

Neither Nadia Comaneci nor Kim Zmeskal were the top athletes in practice or at camp. They were the top athletes when the pressure was on.

It's hard enough on many athletes when they enter the depth of a JGP competition for the first time. Imagine not even having Novice Nationals to prepare you. I just don't believe those Japanese & Russian ladies are becoming the competitors they are based on solely camp. They are also going out there and competing against each other. 75 junior ladies, reportedly, at the event Yuna Aoki just won this summer?

I do think a high-performance camp can be a great thing. But I don't think it should be an either/or scenario.

That’s where the North American Challenge Series comes in. I was dubious about taking away novice nationals too. But three times a year the top Novices are chosen to compete in a semi international competition in either Canada or the US. It’s a great opportunity for kids to compete against other skaters at their level and vie for a international medal. It’s an honor to go to these competitions, so naturally that means novices will bring their A game to get chosen.

I think the NA challenge series is a great idea. It allows skaters to compete internationally at a lower cost. It also gets them to stop looking solely at national competitions and aim for bigger international competitions. While nothing compares to the do or die moment at nationals, I do think that the NA series eases the blow.

 

[concorde]

That’s where the North American Challenge Series comes in. I was dubious about taking away novice nationals too. But three times a year the top Novices are chosen to compete in a semi international competition in either Canada or the US. It’s a great opportunity for kids to compete against other skaters at their level and vie for a international medal. It’s an honor to go to these competitions, so naturally that means novices will bring their A game to get chosen.

I think the NA challenge series is a great idea. It allows skaters to compete internationally at a lower cost. It also gets them to stop looking solely at national competitions and aim for bigger international competitions. While nothing compares to the do or die moment at nationals, I do think that the NA series eases the blow.

I agree with this concept but how USFS is going about slotting these skaters for the NACS (+ Asian Open) is getting them burn out. Some of them have gotten (or am getting) two NA slots + the Asian Open. Not to mention, I assume these skaters still have to go through the Regionals process since all of these events occur before October.

I should point out that this "class" of ladies skaters is the strongest "class" of skaters that USFS has had in a long time.

 

[concorde]

Ironically, I just posted about this issue on GS. This is a short version of why USFS needed to do away with Juvenile — Novice Nationals.

The problem is very deep and goes much further than just senior ladies. However, it is an awful domino effect that bubbled up to the top skaters before it was finally addressed.

The problem doesn’t lie with skaters but coaches. A coach at all levels has a tough job. They need to bring back some sort of credentials, i.e. medals, that make them more valuable than other coaches around them. At low levels that means a coach that has skaters compete at nationals or medal at nationals, even if that is at the juvenile level, they can charge much more than coaches that haven’t. The truth is most low level coaches that teach at learn to skate and 6.0 and early IJS levels are abundant. There are tons of them at rinks all over the country. In my neck of the woods, NC, we have a few in each of the local rinks.

What happens is that to ensure they can attract more students, especially students with parents that will pay more and have more talent, they now have to hedge their bets. If they push at student to learn new tech and they falter, that means that they don’t get a medal and they can’t attract new students. So some coaches encourage their students to stick with easier jumps, ensuring they don’t fall, and then focus on other things. They backload, add tanos, improve spins, and improve artistry. Judges loved it. They often pushed up the components score to have them beat skaters with higher level jumps. When did this happen?


2013: Intermediate ladies —Tessa Hong with 2 2As and a 3S< beat Alexia Paganini who had both a 3T and 3S.
2014: Juvenile girls — Iris Zhao her highest level jump being a 2Lz beats three girls competing with 2 2A
2015: A medalist at intermediate wins are bronze with only doubles. All the other medalist, including pewter have 2A and at least 1 triple.

Novice — the winner has only basic triples 3T and 3S beating the silver medalist with all her triples.

At can tell you other examples, but you can see that this is a common system. And the effects were terrible. The next year after a girl with no 2A won at Juvenile nationals in 2014, the very next year virtually no girl did a 2A at nationals. The one that did was downgraded. In just one year, having a winner without a 2A at Juvenile nationals had affected competition that much. It was devastating.

I have no doubt that all girls would learn every jump they could if left to their own devices. I’ve watched so many girls with an incredible drive and motivation. However, coaches need wins. And it’s very risky to have a skater attempt hard jumps. The truth is in order for a skater to master triples and triple triples, it means possible years of skater forfeiting medals. It can be frustrating for coaches that want to have a student help the attract more students, and even more frustrating for parents shelling out tons of money.


But that’s the best way to hone future champions. Skaters should be taking risk, attempting hard jumps and challenging themselves. If they don’t, skaters rarely progress. I’ve watched a ton of “place it safe” medalist fail to progress at junior and senior level. It backfires big time. These skaters struggle with jumps for years to come as well as consistency.

Occasionally talented skaters managed to emerge in spite of this system, but it’s clear that not enough of them are emerging to compete at a International level.


But trusting a few strong skaters to emerge with such a laissez faire system is risky, since coaches at lower levels aren’t playing a long game. So they did away with nationals for everyone but juniors and seniors, taking away those bragging rights that coaches and parents love so much. Hopefully the bonus system as well as new actions to develop national competitors will work.

This is very true.

Unfortunately the revised GOE system about negates the bonus system. I expect that skaters at this year's nationals to have lower difficulty levels than similar skaters from last year. The +1 bonus is not enough to boost big jumps with a fall (-5) or step out (-3).

 

[Sk8yDad]

They have only eliminated Novice Nationals for Singles skaters. Pairs and Dance will still have their Championships at the “Super Sectionals.”

The Top Two of the Singles at their Sectionals will be now allowed to skate up awith the Juniors. That leaves out a total of six Singles skaters of both sexes that get left out from skating for a title. I don’t understand why USFSA can’t find room for 12 skaters (6 men and 6 women) to have a Novice Championship.

 

[concorde]

They have only eliminated Novice Nationals for Singles skaters. Pairs and Dance will still have their Championships at the “Super Sectionals.”

The Top Two of the Singles at their Sectionals will be now allowed to skate up awith the Juniors. That leaves out a total of six Singles skaters of both sexes that get left out from skating for a title. I don’t understand why USFSA can’t find room for 12 skaters (6 men and 6 women) to have a Novice Championship.

Starting next year, those 6 will still get the jacket and from most skaters, that is huge!

 

[Frida80]

They have only eliminated Novice Nationals for Singles skaters. Pairs and Dance will still have their Championships at the “Super Sectionals.”

The Top Two of the Singles at their Sectionals will be now allowed to skate up awith the Juniors. That leaves out a total of six Singles skaters of both sexes that get left out from skating for a title. I don’t understand why USFSA can’t find room for 12 skaters (6 men and 6 women) to have a Novice Championship.

It's not a matter of ability. They feel that the lower national levels exist only for bragging rights. To say I'm a national Champ or I coach a national competitor. These are just status symbols that harm the long term development of skaters.

Instead they've given them new things to brag about. Being a member of the developmental program. Winning the NA challenger series. Being selected to compete at junior nationals.

The purple is to get skaters, coaches and parents to start thinking bigger. To start thinking about their skaters as international competitors instead of domestic competitors.