New Brennan Article re: Zimmerman/Fontana & the Rink in USA Today

[Carolla5501]

that is what i originally read. i think TSL facebook.

Maybe you should start using reputable news sources? not gossip trash talkers

i do mean in general. i still fault parents if they know what is going on to keep working with the coach. their are priorities. that does not take away any responsibility from cipres.

You’re determined to dig yourself in that hole. apparently you have some kind a relationship to the skaters because that’s the only way you could be continuing to blame the victim. When it happens to you I hope somebody looks at you and says well it’s your fault.

You’re unbelievable, it appears you need parental supervision because your sense of right and wrong is a little off!

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life. there is a lot of lack of sense and responsibility going on here on all sides and until an investigation is done i think we all should just sit tight. people are saying things that are just plain stupid. i think christine brennan is more interested in scoops than reporting. she drops an incomplete bomb and then goes on her way leaving a mess of judgements and accusations clearly not knowing much. just my opinion.

So let me see... An adult man send a dick pick to a child - but the girl, her parents, and the reporter are to blame. Got it.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

my understanding was he passed on a picture of someone else's body part... not his own. still pretty stupid but.........

What difference would that make??? Sending pornography to a minor is ILLEGAL. End of story. Don't even try to pass judgment on the parents. I don't necessarily agree with how the parents handled it, I most likely would have done things differently, but the end result is Cipres committed a CRIME. (I would have first confronted Cipres to find out if he intentionally sent the pix to my daughter. After all, maybe he didn't know who he was sending it to. If his answer was yes, I would immediately report it to law enforcement and the coaches, and the rink director )

 

[VGThuy]

i believe not illegal in almost any state. read some laws

Sending pornographic material to any minor is most certainly illegal in every state and is also a federal crime. There is a deeper discussion about amending those laws to be less punitive when it comes to minors sending other minors if they are close in age things and such but when there is a clearly adult man like Morgan Cipres doing that to a 13 year old girl, then it’s pretty clear cut as 13 year olds cannot give consent.

State-by-State Differences in Sexting Laws

Sexting is relatively new, and states are still trying to determine what to do about it. Here's what you need to know about sexting laws across the country.

www.bark.us

 

[misskarne]

that is what i originally read. i think TSL facebook.

Oh yes, because TSL are obviously the most reliable never-to-be-questioned source.

i believe not illegal in almost any state. read some laws

Um WTF, I believe illegal in pretty much every Western country including the US and most US states. Maybe you wish it wasn't but that doesn't make it legal.

i do mean in general. i still fault parents if they know what is going on to keep working with the coach. their are priorities. that does not take away any responsibility from cipres.

Did you read the articles at all? She was threatened not to tell her parents. Her parents didn't know.

 

[nikjil]

I grew up in the 80s too and had similar parents. They paid the bills, the rest was up to me. I think the main difference today though is due to cellphones. They create a sense of 'familiarity' for lack of a better term between student and instructor. I can't ever remember contacting any coach or instructor outside of practice unless an emergency came up and I couldn't make it to practice or a dance lesson. But now you can have immediate contact with your instructor and with texting you can be almost impersonal with your communication. It creates a strange dynamic that didn't exist before cellphones. And with this new dynamic it lends to boundaries being crossed between student and instructor. I'm not being a crotchety old nag complaining about technology because it's a good thing and it makes our lives easier and better. But the tradeoff is that sometimes boundaries are crossed that didn't exist back then. If I were a coach or instructor I would have two phones, a work phone and a personal one. I'd make it clear that the work phone is strictly work related and I don't want any communication from my students unless it was an emergency. No personal texts, no funny memes, no pics. That's my take on things.

You are making an interesting point and I agree that technology changes boundaries. For the first time this past year I had a job where I was working completely remotely, my boss and I communicated via e-mail and phone and didn't meet until I had been at thee job over six months and then we met in a social setting. While I think some of it was personalities, it did make our relationship much less formal than with my former bosses. Having said that, I definitely had relationships with some of my high school teachers that were more (in a good way) than just teacher/student. Several lived in my development so I saw them in non-school settings regularly and another actually did some of the transporting me to lesson because my mom was working at that point and it was on her way home. Again, innocent 80s, especially since it was a female teacher, no one saw anything wrong with it.

 

[SkateSand]

Things have changed a lot. When I was in junior high school, I was walking home in the rain and stupidly jaywalked across the street right in front of my history teacher (in his Porsche, lol). He stopped in his tracks and berated me for jaywalking for what felt like five minutes before realizing I was standing in the pouring rain and asked me how far way I lived. When I said a mile, he said, "Get in" and drove me home. Nobody thought anything of it. The next day at school, I was excitedly gushing about it to my girlfriends: "Mr. Wirth drove me home! In his Porsche!!!!" No way would that happen today - no young, bachelor teacher would be caught dead giving a junior high school girl a ride home. And the teacher would be doing exactly the right, safe thing in not doing so - for both of us.

 

[barbarafan]

Oh yes, because TSL are obviously the most reliable never-to-be-questioned source.



Um WTF, I believe illegal in pretty much every Western country including the US and most US states. Maybe you wish it wasn't but that doesn't make it legal.



Did you read the articles at all? She was threatened not to tell her parents. Her parents didn't know.

was she not threatened to tell by the same person who asked the girls to text Cipres asking for a picture of his whatevers so she could get free pizza? He is a coach. Has a complaint been placed against him

 

[kwanfan1818]

was she not threatened to tell by the same person who asked the girls to text Cipres asking for a picture of his whatevers so she could get free pizza? He is a coach. Has a complaint been placed against him

Dispenza allegedly ask the girls to text Cipres. According to the articles, the parents allege the threats were from Zimmerman and Fontana:

The girl and her parents allege Zimmerman and Fontana intimidated the girl for several weeks, telling her that she was at fault for receiving the pictures because she was a “pretty girl and men have their needs,” that no one would believe her and that she would be shamed on social media, particularly in France, where Cipres is popular.

The original article states the girl told her tutor about the pressure and threats, the tutor emailed the girl's therapist describing what the girl told her, and asked the therapist to ask the girl about them. The therapist took the next steps.

 

[acraven]

Actually, I don't think the original article specifically said the girl told the tutor. I was left wondering whether the tutor worked at the rink and based her letter (email?) to the therapist on what she had heard at the rink rather than things she had been told directly by the victim the girl.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Actually, I don't think the original article specifically said the girl told the tutor. I was left wondering whether the tutor worked at the rink and based her letter (email?) to the therapist on what she had heard at the rink rather than things she had been told directly by the victim the girl.

From Brennan's Dec. 10 article:

The girl’s parents provided USA TODAY Sports with a Dec. 30, 2017 email sent from their daughter’s tutor, whose name is not being used to protect the identity of the family, to Dara Bushman, a psychologist who worked with their daughter.

"Please ask her to share with you the many statements that have been made to her over the past few weeks (mostly by John) in an attempt to manipulate or scare her into keeping quiet,” the tutor wrote of the young skater. “She has been told that telling will place a target on her back with French fans, that she is the type of girl who does this (collect pics), that she has been asking for it by her clothing choices, that her dad is an attorney and imagine what he will do if he finds out, that she will destroy his career and that of his partner, and much more.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2629777001

 

[aemeraldrainc]

I don’t understand all this back and forth concerning the timeline and who knew what when and who told who what and at what time.
The unfortunate FACTS are that Morgan Ciprés sent a dick pic to a MINOR which is an ILLEGAL, criminal act AND his coaches intimidated and threatened a teenage girl into silence.
I know the world and society has a long f*ck*n way to go in admitting and addressing and preventing the problem in the first place but I think we are headed in the right direction.
It has to start somewhere. I really hope the chips fall where they may and there’s consequences for the guilty.

 

[Prancer]

that is what i originally read. i think TSL facebook.

And you actually want to use something like that to dispute Christine Brennan after accusing her of being more interested in scoops than reporting?

While I have you here--the quote feature here allows for multiquoting so that people can respond to more than one post at a time. Simply click on the Quote button at the bottom of each post you'd like to quote and then insert those quotes into a single post.

If I were a coach or instructor I would have two phones, a work phone and a personal one. I'd make it clear that the work phone is strictly work related and I don't want any communication from my students unless it was an emergency. No personal texts, no funny memes, no pics. That's my take on things.

I'm in a different situation, but a somewhat interesting aside--we are often encouraged by one group to give students our personal cell numbers so they can text us at any time. We are also told by another group that any communication we have with students must be done via our college communication tools or else we are not covered for liability. There have been a number of incidents--none involving any sexual improprieties--involving the use of personal communication tools, but it still goes on, mostly because it's annoying to always have to keep everything separate. I think having two phones would be annoying and it would be easy to slide into crossover use.

I take music lessons and my instructor and I often text because there will be schedule changes or one of us has a question or something, and it's really the most convenient way to communicate. He texts pretty much all his students, regardless of age, as long as they have cell phones. I think it would be really irritating to do otherwise. But I've been taking lessons from him for five years and we have some interactions outside of the lessons--nothing inappropriate, just stuff that has come from us knowing each other for so long. I've done a web page for him, I often help him with research and finding music, there have been a number of things we have done to help each other out with different situations, etc. It's not exactly a friendship, but it's not strictly business, either. Yeah, I'm not a minor, so there is that, but I think it's hard to avoid developing a casual relationship with a longtime student.

I dunno. I hate that we live in a world where you have to always think of all others as potential threats.

 

[acraven]

@kwanfan1818, I'm not trying to split hairs, but I don't think what you've quoted in the following two paragraphs states clearly that the tutor's information came from the victim:

"The girl’s parents provided USA TODAY Sports with a Dec. 30, 2017 email sent from their daughter’s tutor, whose name is not being used to protect the identity of the family, to Dara Bushman, a psychologist who worked with their daughter.

"Please ask her to share with you the many statements that have been made to her over the past few weeks (mostly by John) in an attempt to manipulate or scare her into keeping quiet,” the tutor wrote of the young skater. “She has been told that telling will place a target on her back with French fans, that she is the type of girl who does this (collect pics), that she has been asking for it by her clothing choices, that her dad is an attorney and imagine what he will do if he finds out, that she will destroy his career and that of his partner, and much more.”
Click to expand..."
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2629777001

 

[kwanfan1818]

How then did the girl's tutor learn about the pressure?

 

[Artistic Skaters]

The latest from Christine Brennan:

Under fire, French figure skating chief admits accused skater 'did something very stupid'

Didier Gailhaguet, the president of the French Federation of Ice Sports, was asked to resign this week as sexual abuse allegations in the sport mount.

www.usatoday.com

Gailhaguet said that Cipres has himself resigned from the French sports federation's council and is being treated by a psychologist, adding Cipres “is subject to a penalty in the United States, but a complaint has to be filed.”

So it sounds like they are aware what Cipres did is actionable, but there has been no direct complaint made yet (??) Not sure if this would mean by the parents and skater, law enforcement or some kind of referral from SafeSport because Cipres does not fall under their jurisdiction.

 

[acraven]

How then did the girl's tutor learn about the pressure?

I am not saying that the victim didn't tell her tutor, just that the article doesn't say that's how it happened. If the tutor does her work at the rink--which I believe some do--she could have overheard things, or the victim might have told someone else and that person passed the word to the tutor.

There was considerable vagueness in the original article. The timeline was far from clear, and the article didn't state that the victim was coached by Zimmerman and Fontana as opposed to a different coach working at the same rink.

 

[okokok777]

The latest from Christine Brennan:

Under fire, French figure skating chief admits accused skater 'did something very stupid'

Didier Gailhaguet, the president of the French Federation of Ice Sports, was asked to resign this week as sexual abuse allegations in the sport mount.

www.usatoday.com

So it sounds like they are aware what Cipres did is actionable, but there has been no direct complaint made yet (??) Not sure if this would mean by the parents and skater, law enforcement or some kind of referral from SafeSport because Cipres does not fall under their jurisdiction.

Based on information I've received, Didier knew about Morgan's confession (both directly and the written apology to the girl's mother) prior to publishing the FFSG press release stating " In light of the information at its disposal, the FFSG has no cause not to place its confidence in him."

There have been several direct complaints made against Cipres - he was reported to DCF several times, the police and the U.S. Center for SafeSport (which does not have jurisdiction over Cipres himself but are investigating the coaches). Didier knows all of that. His press conference was full of lies and misleading half-truths.

 

[PDilemma]

And you actually want to use something like that to dispute Christine Brennan after accusing her of being more interested in scoops than reporting?

While I have you here--the quote feature here allows for multiquoting so that people can respond to more than one post at a time. Simply click on the Quote button at the bottom of each post you'd like to quote and then insert those quotes into a single post.



I'm in a different situation, but a somewhat interesting aside--we are often encouraged by one group to give students our personal cell numbers so they can text us at any time. We are also told by another group that any communication we have with students must be done via our college communication tools or else we are not covered for liability. There have been a number of incidents--none involving any sexual improprieties--involving the use of personal communication tools, but it still goes on, mostly because it's annoying to always have to keep everything separate. I think having two phones would be annoying and it would be easy to slide into crossover use.

I take music lessons and my instructor and I often text because there will be schedule changes or one of us has a question or something, and it's really the most convenient way to communicate. He texts pretty much all his students, regardless of age, as long as they have cell phones. I think it would be really irritating to do otherwise. But I've been taking lessons from him for five years and we have some interactions outside of the lessons--nothing inappropriate, just stuff that has come from us knowing each other for so long. I've done a web page for him, I often help him with research and finding music, there have been a number of things we have done to help each other out with different situations, etc. It's not exactly a friendship, but it's not strictly business, either. Yeah, I'm not a minor, so there is that, but I think it's hard to avoid developing a casual relationship with a longtime student.

I dunno. I hate that we live in a world where you have to always think of all others as potential threats.

There are apps you can use for this to communicate with individuals or groups without using personal numbers or info. A lot of teachers, coaches and youth leaders use Remind. I would say that is a way easier option than a second phone account.

 

[Alilou]

I am not saying that the victim didn't tell her tutor, just that the article doesn't say that's how it happened. If the tutor does her work at the rink--which I believe some do--she could have overheard things, or the victim might have told someone else and that person passed the word to the tutor.

There was considerable vagueness in the original article. The timeline was far from clear, and the article didn't state that the victim was coached by Zimmerman and Fontana as opposed to a different coach working at the same rink.

And exactly WTF does any of this matter? He sent dick picks. To a CHILD. There's no question about this. All the rest is just noise.

 

[morgan rye]

Maybe you should start using reputable news sources? not gossip trash talkers


You’re determined to dig yourself in that hole. apparently you have some kind a relationship to the skaters because that’s the only way you could be continuing to blame the victim. When it happens to you I hope somebody looks at you and says well it’s your fault.

You’re unbelievable, it appears you need parental supervision because your sense of right and wrong is a little off!

no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach. NOT A FAN it has ended her.

 

[misskarne]

no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach. NOT A FAN it has ended her.

You're really missing the point. You were blaming a thirteen year old child for the sexual harassment she received from an adult man. FFS.

 

[Carolla5501]

no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach. NOT A FAN it has ended her.

So apparently if it’s your grandchild it’s not gonna be anyone’s fault but the parents of the child? And it’s going to be OK if it’s the male organ of somebody not related to the man who sent it to your grandchild?

The fact that you’re a former skater is not relevant at all. (Unless of course your laboring under an illusion that your fellow skaters can do no wrong). The fact that you seem not to understand sending a picture of the male organ to an under age chid is a problem is incredibly relevant. You seem to want to blame the child and her parents instead of the person who sent the picture. Under what circumstances do you think it’s acceptable to send a picture of a male organ to an under age child. Because I can’t think of any. And I’m certainly not going to blame the child and her parents for the actions of a grown man. A grown man who should know better.


At least if you have been a friend of the skater you would. have an excuse for your attempt to defend them. Now what you look like you’re someone who doesn’t seem to get it. And sadly won’t get it.

 

[bethy135]

no relationship to the skaters or coaches. i am a grandmother so i really don't need parental supervision. i am a former skater (thru nationals) and coach. NOT A FAN it has ended her.

Your perspective has perfectly illustrated the pervasive culture that rules the sport of figure skating from the top all the way down to the club/rink and even Learn to Skate level. What I've witnessed personally and therefore grabbed my up and coming skaters and run away from.

Heck, you might even be my skaters' former coach!

 

[morgan rye]

You're really missing the point. You were blaming a thirteen year old child for the sexual harassment she received from an adult man. FFS.

do you people on this site actually read what people write. i am blaming her in NO WAY. i think her parents were irresponsible and cipres is an idiot! we will see what happens. no more to say here.

 

[Carolla5501]

do you people on this site actually read what people write. i am blaming her in NO WAY. i think her parents were irresponsible and cipres is an idiot! we will see what happens. no more to say here.

We read what you wrote. And what you wrote blames the parents. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote

You’re also the only poster who seems to have attempted to complain that since it was somebody else’s penis it’s not as bad. Sorry you’ve dug your hole.

But now you’ve moved on to blaming us LOL

 

[VGThuy]

do you people on this site actually read what people write. i am blaming her in NO WAY. i think her parents were irresponsible and cipres is an idiot! we will see what happens. no more to say here.

He’s not only an idiot, but he did a criminal action and he showed a 13-year-old girl pictures of his penis. 13-years-old. He was sexually attracted to a 13-year-old girl
to the point where he engaged in communications of a sexual nature with her. That is not just being an idiot and simply calling him that is minimizing his actions and mindset. People have already explained the timeline regarding the parents’ knowledge and involvement so it’s confusing why you continue to harp on them.

 

[okokok777]

He’s not only an idiot, but he did a criminal action and he showed a 13-year-old girl pictures of his penis. 13-years-old. He was sexually attracted to a 13-year-old girl
to the point where he engaged in communications of a sexual nature with her. That is not just being an idiot and simply calling him that is minimizing his actions and mindset. People have already explained the timeline regarding the parents’ knowledge and involvement so it’s confusing why you continue to harp on them.

I agree with all of this! Describing his actions as "stupid" or, in the words of Didier, an "atrocious mistake" minimizes the harm he has done. He sexually abused his 13 year old student. He's a sexual predator. @morgan rye - that goes far beyond "stupidity" and describing it as such is incredibly harmful.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

As of today, Zimmerman & Fontana's pictures are still proudly displayed at the top of coach board in Wesley Chapel.

 

[chachacha]

As of today, Zimmerman & Fontana's pictures are still proudly displayed at the top of coach board in Wesley Chapel.

when will safe sport complete their investigation? I am surprised that the coaches still appeared at Europeans and US Championships. I hope the skaters they are coaching are evaluating If they should perhaps explore other options. it was hard to see Kevin Aymos and Denney/Frazier have poor skates at Europeans and US Champs. you can’t help but think the Coaches were not able to fully focus on their athletes when dealing with these Allegations that went public, nor should they be allowed to coach until the investigation has been completed. one would think the Skaters would want to remove themselves from that whole situation.