New Brennan Article re: Zimmerman/Fontana & the Rink in USA Today

AngieNikodinovLove

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For those watching US Nats on NBC: Have they said anything about the Ciprès case and Zimmerman's role in it, or are they keeping quiet?
Terry Gannon talked about it briefly in the pairs SP yesterday.

All of this is just incredible.. feel so bad for these skaters / minors / students.....

Whats wrong with people these days? Hard to wrap my mind around it....

I also wonder why the students parents allow texting / talking and the scheduling to happen with the adult instructors. I have a 17 yr old student and I only speak with his parents when talking about him or his schedule. I dont text my teenage student or socialize with him outside gym. I dont have his number nor need it.
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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Does Zimmerman only have the one pairs team at Nationals? I haven't noticed him at any of the other events with other skaters.
 

Moka-Ananas

Smirking with Eteri
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As I also posted on the Europeans Pairs FS thread, it also came up during the German broadcast with Daniel Weiss commentating and he was just like: "There is a scandal surrounding Ciprès and photos of several of his body parts." and then "I met these two (he meant J/C) in December and we talked and we, they and I, really hope they can return to competitions."
Keep in mind: This guy has a daughter who is approx. the same age as the girl who got these pics from Ciprès.
And IIRC no one had problems with him saying this stuff.
What the hell is wrong with people?
 

puglover

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1,915
As I also posted on the Europeans Pairs FS thread, it also came up during the German broadcast with Daniel Weiss commentating and he was just like: "There is a scandal surrounding Ciprès and photos of several of his body parts." and then "I met these two (he meant J/C) in December and we talked and we, they and I, really hope they can return to competitions."
Keep in mind: This guy has a daughter who is approx. the same age as the girl who got these pics from Ciprès.
And IIRC no one had problems with him saying this stuff.
What the hell is wrong with people?
And where is the vomit icon emoji when you need it?
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
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11,700
Yes,
For those watching US Nats on NBC: Have they said anything about the Ciprès case and Zimmerman's role in it, or are they keeping quiet?
during Thursday’s NBCSN coverage of the Pairs SP. As the backstage camera focused on John, Terry Gannon explained the situation for the record...and a non-quote from USFS (“we cannot comment...”), with big USA flag in the background, was flashed on the screen. All of this as John and the other coaches/skaters on his team were yucking it up backstage, obviously unaware that the NBC cameras were on them. Barf.
 

nikjil

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643
Welcome all to the wonderful world of untangling abuse allegations. One of the things that often makes them so hard to prosecute is trying to explain to juries all the complicated reasons why victims often stay in contact with their abusers after the abuse happens. If Z/F knew about the abuse and failed to cancel private sessions between Cipres and the victim, they were incredibly stupid.
 

barbk

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6,954
Terry Gannon talked about it briefly in the pairs SP yesterday.

All of this is just incredible.. feel so bad for these skaters / minors / students.....

Whats wrong with people these days? Hard to wrap my mind around it....

I also wonder why the students parents allow texting / talking and the scheduling to happen with the adult instructors. I have a 17 yr old student and I only speak with his parents when talking about him or his schedule. I dont text my teenage student or socialize with him outside gym. I dont have his number nor need it.
I'm not an athletic coach, but I work with high school students. After the initial meeting, parents are rarely present in our meetings. 90%+ of the scheduling is done directly with the student. I text kids pretty often because (in general) teens despise email. Mind you, I'm not texting about social matters and certainly not exchanging pictures, but the very notion of a coach directly scheduling with a teen isn't creepy, imo. (My texts are on the order of, "Did you get that transcript request turned in?")
 

JOHIO2

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2,316
I worked for Child and Family Services for many years and, at least here, the mandate for those in positions such as coaches is very clear. They are to report all "suspicions of child abuse or neglect". They do not investigate it themselves. It can be challenging to report - but report they must! This feels to me like they tried to keep it "in-house" - we think this or that about the girl, we greatly value our star athlete and don't want anything negative to affect him and his partner's success, he has apologized, she needs to know the calamity that will befall her if she does not keep quiet about this.
I am surprised that the girl's tutor contacted the kid's psychologist. If this person has any kind of educational credentials, they should have been contacting police and/or children's services. In most, if not all states, they are REQUIRED to report any such allegations. Florida may be run by Republican Neanderthal legislators, but even there I bet that is a requirement.
 

morgan rye

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well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life. there is a lot of lack of sense and responsibility going on here on all sides and until an investigation is done i think we all should just sit tight. people are saying things that are just plain stupid. i think christine brennan is more interested in scoops than reporting. she drops an incomplete bomb and then goes on her way leaving a mess of judgements and accusations clearly not knowing much. just my opinion.
 

morgan rye

Member
Messages
50
As I also posted on the Europeans Pairs FS thread, it also came up during the German broadcast with Daniel Weiss commentating and he was just like: "There is a scandal surrounding Ciprès and photos of several of his body parts." and then "I met these two (he meant J/C) in December and we talked and we, they and I, really hope they can return to competitions."
Keep in mind: This guy has a daughter who is approx. the same age as the girl who got these pics from Ciprès.
And IIRC no one had problems with him saying this stuff.
What the hell is wrong with people?
my understanding was he passed on a picture of someone else's body part... not his own. still pretty stupid but.........
 

PDilemma

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5,660
The standard to avoid trouble and to protect minors is not to personally/privately communicate with them. Period. At the very least you should be copying a parent or guardian on any text to a minor. Apps like Remind are commonly used by teachers and youth leaders. They allow you to communicate and also eliminate you using your personal phone number and kids having access to it.
 

VGThuy

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30,539
my understanding was he passed on a picture of someone else's body part... not his own. still pretty stupid but.........
And where pray tell did you get that understanding from since nothing has been reported to say that?
 

Barbara Manatee

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1,237
well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life. there is a lot of lack of sense and responsibility going on here on all sides
No. Do not 'both sides' the sexual abuse of a 13 year old. There is no justification, no two sides of the story, no fault to go around, no excuse. She was 13 and was not in any way to blame. The only thing she needed was a grown man to keep his dick to himself.
people are saying things that are just plain stupid.
Yes they are.
 

Carolla5501

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well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life. there is a lot of lack of sense and responsibility going on here on all sides and until an investigation is done i think we all should just sit tight. people are saying things that are just plain stupid. i think christine brennan is more interested in scoops than reporting. she drops an incomplete bomb and then goes on her way leaving a mess of judgements and accusations clearly not knowing much. just my opinion.

Blame the victim, that always makes it better. REALLY?

What's plain stupid is your attempt to make this ok by saying "well her parents are at fault"

Sorry, but once the coaches knew they were LEGALLY required to report. They don't get to "blame the parents", "ask the guy if he really did this" or any "investigation". That's the job of LAW ENFORCMENT!

Brennan is telling a story. I guess you'd be happier if we just hid the abuse her the stuffed animals thrown on the ice!
 

Japanfan

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22,447
well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life. there is a lot of lack of sense and responsibility going on here on all sides and until an investigation is done i think we all should just sit tight. people are saying things that are just plain stupid. i think christine brennan is more interested in scoops than reporting. she drops an incomplete bomb and then goes on her way leaving a mess of judgements and accusations clearly not knowing much. just my opinion.
Bold mine, And I don't really understand what you mean by this - whether you refer to dealing with the issue, or to her just needing supervision/intervention in general.

I think you may mean the latter, but it really has no bearing on the situation. As has been pointed out repeatedly, she was THIRTEEN YEARS OLD, FFS.
 
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misskarne

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well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life.
Classy. Blaming the 13 year old child. Whose parents did not know. Who was threatened by her coaches not to tell anyone. Victim blaming and illiteracy in the same post, who would have guessed?

people are saying things that are just plain stupid.
You only need to look in the mirror to see who one of those people is.

my understanding was he passed on a picture of someone else's body part... not his own. still pretty stupid but.........
Oh yes, because sending someone else's dick to a thirteen year old child makes it so much better. :rolleyes:
 

thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
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4,754
I am surprised that the girl's tutor contacted the kid's psychologist. If this person has any kind of educational credentials, they should have been contacting police and/or children's services. In most, if not all states, they are REQUIRED to report any such allegations. Florida may be run by Republican Neanderthal legislators, but even there I bet that is a requirement.
It is, but there's no licensing requirement to be a "tutor." But, if this tutor did have some type of licensing by the State of Florida, it could be revoked for his/her failure to report to DCF.

I'm not sure how this skater was educated, but homeschooling in Florida is very easy. It's pretty much just taken by attestation from forms parents have to turn into the state. They can hire whomever they want as a "tutor" to help homeschool their kids.
 

VGThuy

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I figure a tutor is just someone who advertises on the street and has the credentials to back up their profession.
 

irenemulindwairen

New Member
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As I also posted on the Europeans Pairs FS thread, it also came up during the German broadcast with Daniel Weiss commentating and he was just like: "There is a scandal surrounding Ciprès and photos of several of his body parts." and then "I met these two (he meant J/C) in December and we talked and we, they and I, really hope they can return to competitions."
Keep in mind: This guy has a daughter who is approx. the same age as the girl who got these pics from Ciprès.
And IIRC no one had problems with him saying this stuff.
What the hell is wrong with people?
😠
 

ErikWilliam

Active Member
Messages
79
Training at that rink, especially under any of the coaches involved in the matter has got to be hard on a skater. I would not be surprised if Fontana and Zimmerman's clients drift away, the elite ones after Worlds, the others maybe even before then.
I agree. The whole ordeal makes no sense. I can understand the girl ‘s parents being upset that their 13 y/o daughter was sent that from a man in his mid20s. I can see the parents, one being an attorney, wanting to correct this and have the man dealt with accordingly. If I’m paying upwards of $50k a year and entrusting the care and safety of my child to John and Silvia I would expect them to side with my underage daughter and not their star student. That they didn’t shows to me that the Zimms are not qualified or safe to teach underage kids. I would expect a mass exodus after the season is over. I sure wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving an underage child with John or Silvia. They were put to the test, and failed miserably.
 

nikjil

Well-Known Member
Messages
643
well i agree this girl needs some supervision and intervention from her parents but if they knew.........excuse me ! i guess they think skating is more important than other stuff in her life. there is a lot of lack of sense and responsibility going on here on all sides and until an investigation is done i think we all should just sit tight. people are saying things that are just plain stupid. i think christine brennan is more interested in scoops than reporting. she drops an incomplete bomb and then goes on her way leaving a mess of judgements and accusations clearly not knowing much. just my opinion.
I realize the 80s were a much more innocent time but I took various types of lessons from age 10 on and I can’t remember my parents being involved in anything except some of the transportation and paying for them. I handled all the scheduling communication and unless there was some problem that impacted them (an extra they felt was too expensive or a schedule conflict) I can’t remember my very involved parents ever being concerned about them. I realize the 80s were a different time but I honestly don’t think it would have occurred to my folks that there was anything wrong in having me make the arrangements, rather I think they saw it as if I wanted this I needed to be mature and responsible enough to handle things.
 

morgan rye

Member
Messages
50
Blame the victim, that always makes it better. REALLY?

What's plain stupid is your attempt to make this ok by saying "well her parents are at fault"

Sorry, but once the coaches knew they were LEGALLY required to report. They don't get to "blame the parents", "ask the guy if he really did this" or any "investigation". That's the job of LAW ENFORCMENT!

Brennan is telling a story. I guess you'd be happier if we just hid the abuse her the stuffed animals thrown on the ice!
possibly slow down and read what i said .........
 

morgan rye

Member
Messages
50
Bold mine, And I don't really understand what you mean by this - whether you refer to dealing with the issue, or to her just needing supervision/intervention in general.

I think you may mean the latter, but it really has no bearing on the situation. As has been pointed out repeatedly, she was THIRTEEN YEARS OLD, FFS.
i do mean in general. i still fault parents if they know what is going on to keep working with the coach. their are priorities. that does not take away any responsibility from cipres.
 

morgan rye

Member
Messages
50
I agree. The whole ordeal makes no sense. I can understand the girl ‘s parents being upset that their 13 y/o daughter was sent that from a man in his mid20s. I can see the parents, one being an attorney, wanting to correct this and have the man dealt with accordingly. If I’m paying upwards of $50k a year and entrusting the care and safety of my child to John and Silvia I would expect them to side with my underage daughter and not their star student. That they didn’t shows to me that the Zimms are not qualified or safe to teach underage kids. I would expect a mass exodus after the season is over. I sure wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving an underage child with John or Silvia. They were put to the test, and failed miserably.
i agree with the first part of what you are saying but do her parents have no responsibility??? my god.
 

ErikWilliam

Active Member
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79
I realize the 80s were a different time but I honestly don’t think it would have occurred to my folks that there was anything wrong in having me make the arrangements, rather I think they saw it as if I wanted this I needed to be mature and responsible enough to handle things.
I grew up in the 80s too and had similar parents. They paid the bills, the rest was up to me. I think the main difference today though is due to cellphones. They create a sense of 'familiarity' for lack of a better term between student and instructor. I can't ever remember contacting any coach or instructor outside of practice unless an emergency came up and I couldn't make it to practice or a dance lesson. But now you can have immediate contact with your instructor and with texting you can be almost impersonal with your communication. It creates a strange dynamic that didn't exist before cellphones. And with this new dynamic it lends to boundaries being crossed between student and instructor. I'm not being a crotchety old nag complaining about technology because it's a good thing and it makes our lives easier and better. But the tradeoff is that sometimes boundaries are crossed that didn't exist back then. If I were a coach or instructor I would have two phones, a work phone and a personal one. I'd make it clear that the work phone is strictly work related and I don't want any communication from my students unless it was an emergency. No personal texts, no funny memes, no pics. That's my take on things.
 

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