Missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370

[UMBS Go Blue]

Woke up to cringe-worthy footage of media hounding the passengers' relatives and associates in Beijing. Hoping they can grieve in privacy and peace.

http://stream.wsj.com/story/malaysia-airlines-flight-370/SS-2-475558/

 

[Citlali]

 

[shan]

Sad story.

 

[skipaway]

This doesn't look good at all. Sorry for all involved.
Plane Update

and this piece of information is troubling to say the least

Asked whether terrorism was suspected, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said, "We are looking at all possibilities, but it is too early to make any conclusive remarks."

Foreign ministry officials in Italy and Austria said the names of two nationals from those countries listed on the flight's manifest matched passports reported stolen in Thailand.

Italy's Foreign Ministry said the Italian man who was listed as being a passenger, Luigi Maraldi, was traveling in Thailand and was not aboard the plane. It said he reported his passport stolen last August.

Austria's Foreign Ministry confirmed that a name listed on the manifest matched an Austrian passport reported stolen two years ago in Thailand. It said the Austrian was not on the plane, but would not confirm the person's identity

 

[dardar1126]

This is just so tragic...I feel so sorry for all those affected.

 

[Vash01]

I watched CNN couple hours ago. As of then, there was no sign of this aircraft. It must be so hard for the family members, and of course for those who were on that plane!

 

[misskarne]

Well, it is long, long since past the time it was fuelled for, so they're not going to find it in one piece.

I also read yesterday that this plane had been involved in an accident some months ago where it lost a wingtip. As soon as I read that I cringed and hoped that this is not going to be yet another case of a crash caused by shoddy repair work or maintenance...

 

[UMBS Go Blue]

The plane had a comprehensive inspection 10 days ago. Malaysian Airlines is also a hidden secret in that it's one of the world's finest.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

The FBI is sending a team to Malaysia to assist with the investigation, according to CNN. Singapore has sent in a sub, and the search area has been expanded.

 

[skatepixie]

I'm thinking terrorism -- two passengers were traveling with passports that were reported stolen. And the men who originally held those passports are safe and sound. Sounds like some terrorists stole passports.

 

[Skittl1321]

That does seem like a bizarre coincidence to not have it be terrorists, but if no organization claims it, it seems unlikely. Terrorism doesn't work if it can be written off as an accident.

I am so sad for those lost and their families. Horrible.

 

[*Jen*]

The plane had a comprehensive inspection 10 days ago. Malaysian Airlines is also a hidden secret in that it's one of the world's finest.

There is no suggestion there was anything wrong with the plane, and the pilot was highly experienced with over 18000 hours flying time. But I disagree about it being one of the world's finest. We have a good family friend who is an even more experienced pilot, and there are some airlines he won't fly. Malaysian is one of them.

Even good airlines suffer from mechanical failures from time to time though, although the lack of a distress call is very strange.

I'm thinking terrorism -- two passengers were traveling with passports that were reported stolen. And the men who originally held those passports are safe and sound. Sounds like some terrorists stole passports.

That does seem like a bizarre coincidence to not have it be terrorists, but if no organization claims it, it seems unlikely. Terrorism doesn't work if it can be written off as an accident.

I am so sad for those lost and their families. Horrible.

I agree with Skittl - there is definitely somethingy fishy, but terror tends to be claimed or it defeats the purpose. If it isn't claimed soon, I'd be more incline to think something else happened.

Also why have they found oil slicks in the water? There are two different points that it has been claimed they lost contact...neither point was over water. It's very, very odd.

Those poor people and their families

 

[Buzz]

The Guardian is now saying that four passengers identities are being investigated, not just the two mentioned before.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/09/malaysia-airlines-missing-plane-fears-worst

 

[moebius]

I'm thinking terrorism -- two passengers were traveling with passports that were reported stolen. And the men who originally held those passports are safe and sound. Sounds like some terrorists stole passports.

Sorry for me being so naive, but if the passports were stolen, how do the thieves get through security if the the photo doesn't match the person? Or do they manufacture a replica of it with the thieves picture on it? And I thought if the passports are reported stolen, they would become invalid.

 

[Vash01]

Sorry for me being so naive, but if the passports were stolen, how do the thieves get through security if the the photo doesn't match the person? Or do they manufacture a replica of it with the thieves picture on it? And I thought if the passports are reported stolen, they would become invalid.

I am no expert but it seems pasting a new picture in a stolen passport will be fairly easy. It's not clear in this case when the passports were reported stolen and if that information was entered in the database. I may be naive too.

 

[*Jen*]

I am no expert but it seems pasting a new picture in a stolen passport will be fairly easy. It's not clear in this case when the passports were reported stolen and if that information was entered in the database. I may be naive too.

I wondered that too, but so many passports are reported lost and stolen per year, I'm not sure they'd go into a database, of if they did how long they'd remain there. In theory they should be in a database if they're reported stolen and big red flags raised if someone tries to use them.

I'm assuming that the names and identities were used in new passports, so the pictures and biometric data matched the person the airport staff were looking at, but the numbers didn't raise red flags as having been stolen. That's pretty sophisticated work, if so.

It's interesting that at least 2 of those 4 passports were stolen in Thailand, and one of them was stolen two years ago. Thailand is hardly the mecca for international terrorists, but both China and Thailand have some interesting internal issues.

Terrorism is looking more likely now there are even more passports being investigated, but why isn't someone claiming it? That makes no sense. I don't think it can be ruled out, but at this stage I don't think an unrelated group of criminals travelling on stolen identities on a plane that went down can be ruled out either. It would be one hell of a coincidence though.

 

[BigB08822]

Well, if those people with the stolen passports were terrorists, then how did hey get whatever it was on the plane that brought it down? Was it a bomb or just some kind of weapon to power their way into the cockpit with? As someone else said, no one is going to claim it? That goes against what most terrorists want. So many questions and so little answers. I feel so badly for the family and friends of all on board.

 

[liv]

And those 2 people with the stolen passports bought their tickets at the same time and to the same destination (somewhere in Europe) after Beijing, so obviously they were together. It does sound very suspicious and shows that not everyone checks passports against Interpol's database of stolen passports etc.. I find it strange that there was no mayday, there is no signal from the black box... it sounds like whatever happened, happened so fast that even a brief message couldn't be sent... and that sort of thing always leads to the idea of a bomb, but wow, so far it's a mystery... however, now we hear reports of some parts being found, although there's no confirmation of what they are...

 

[zippy]

The passport thing could definitely be an important clue pointing to terrorism, but it could also be unrelated - maybe just a couple guys wanting to immigrate to Europe illegally, or a pair of drug smugglers. Apparently the route from SE Asia to Beijing and onward to Europe is not uncommon for people wanting to go to Europe on a stolen EU passport. I've read that a cockpit fire might possibly account for no communication from the pilots that something was wrong. I think there was also no mayday from the pilots of the Air France plane that disappeared over the Atlantic a few years ago, although in that case there was a series of automated messages indicating a system failure following the last communication, which doesn't seem to be the case here unless Malaysia Air isn't saying. There are also cases of terrorism where nobody rushes forward to take responsibility for it; some terrorist groups prefer to let it play out for awhile as something mysterious to increase the fear/uncertainty. So basically, at this point it seems like nothing can be ruled out.

 

[*Jen*]

Zippy can you give an example of when somebody waited to long to claim something so big?

I can't. It doesn't sit right with terrorism. It's normally claimed within 24 hours to achieve maximum impact and destruction. No one feels particularly terrorised when they think there is every chance it could be an accident!!

Those stolen passports would only ring alarm bells if they had the same number as those stolen, rather than the same name. Also, Malaysia is a country which allows hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers to pass through it every year, on their way to seek asylum in other countries by arriving there illegally. If anyone turns a blind eye to fake IDs, it's Malaysia!

At this stage I feel like terrorism is increasingly unlikely. It still can't be ruled out, but if it had been claimed there would be a huge impact on air travel right now, as well as immense fear. Groups don't wait to claim - it lessens the impact.

 

[judiz]

I think we will know more when and if the black box is found, that will show if the plane's engines stalled or if there was a loss of air pressure causing the pilots to pass out and the plane to loss control. I'm actually hoping that whatever happened happened so fast that no one on the plane was aware and no one suffered.


I just read on AOL that radar shows the plane may had started to make a U Turn before it disappeared from radar. However no distress signal was sent from the plane if engine trouble was the reason the plane was making the U Turn.

 

[dardar1126]

I just read on AOL that radar shows the plane may had started to make a U Turn before it disappeared from radar. However no distress signal was sent from the plane if engine trouble was the reason the plane was making the U Turn.

The question would be whether it was a controlled turn instigated by the pilots or a turn caused by a loss of control of the airplane.

 

[reckless]

Zippy can you give an example of when somebody waited to long to claim something so big?

I can't. It doesn't sit right with terrorism. It's normally claimed within 24 hours to achieve maximum impact and destruction. No one feels particularly terrorised when they think there is every chance it could be an accident!!

Those stolen passports would only ring alarm bells if they had the same number as those stolen, rather than the same name. Also, Malaysia is a country which allows hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers to pass through it every year, on their way to seek asylum in other countries by arriving there illegally. If anyone turns a blind eye to fake IDs, it's Malaysia!

At this stage I feel like terrorism is increasingly unlikely. It still can't be ruled out, but if it had been claimed there would be a huge impact on air travel right now, as well as immense fear. Groups don't wait to claim - it lessens the impact.

I don't believe anyone in al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 9/11 in the immediate aftermath of the attacks. Osama Bin Laden initially denied involvement. I believe the first statement from anyone directly connected with al Qaeda that seemed to acknowledge responsibility was a video that released in October 2001.

One thing worth pointing out is that last week was the start of a major trial connected to 9/11 -- of Sulaiman abu Ghaith, the spokesman who actually was the speaker in the video I just mentioned.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

They may have found one of the plane's doors:
http://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-says-may-found-missing-jets-door-161951222.html

The article also states that very few countries routinely check against the Interpol lists of stolen passports.

 

[orbitz]

I wonder if the entire plane went into the ocean without breaking up. If the plane broke in midair or upon impact with the water then the search planes and ships would've seen a lot of debris by now.

Doesn't the plane black box automatically emit a location signal in an accident?

 

[MsZem]

They may have found one of the plane's doors:
http://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-says-may-found-missing-jets-door-161951222.html

There are now reports that the debris found is not from the missing airliner.

I wonder if the entire plane went into the ocean without breaking up. If the plane broke in midair or upon impact with the water then the search planes and ships would've seen a lot of debris by now.

Is that even possible? Wouldn't at least some debris and bodies have been found, like in the case of the 2009 Air France flight?

It's just too soon to say what happened, especially considering that they've found no wreckage so far, let alone the flight recorder.

 

[*Jen*]

I don't believe anyone in al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 9/11 in the immediate aftermath of the attacks. Osama Bin Laden initially denied involvement. I believe the first statement from anyone directly connected with al Qaeda that seemed to acknowledge responsibility was a video that released in October 2001.

One thing worth pointing out is that last week was the start of a major trial connected to 9/11 -- of Sulaiman abu Ghaith, the spokesman who actually was the speaker in the video I just mentioned.

True, but it's not entirely the same thing. 9/11 was clearly terror. Without anyone claiming this, it seems like an accident, which kind of defeats the purpose of terrorism.

On an unrelated note, there was a couple on board who owned a business near my parents' place. I must have been there several times. They worked so hard, they left their kids with relatives in China for a while and were going to visit them. One is a toddle, one is a baby. Very sad

 

[Coco]

Is it possible to steal a plane this size mid-air? To make it disappear as this one did?

 

[MsZem]

Is it possible to steal a plane this size mid-air? To make it disappear as this one did?

Wouldn't the plane still show up on radar, considering that it was at cruising altitude? IIRC, the 9/11 hijackers turned off the airplanes' transponders but they were still visible to ATC on radar.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

The news says they've identified one of the people who used one of the stolen passports. They aren't releasing details on that yet, other than to say he was not Malaysian:
http://gma.yahoo.com/officials-iden...-passport-103009458--abc-news-topstories.html

Although they do say this:

China is sending a delegation to Malaysia to assist in identifying the passengers who held fake passports.

That article also says the following:

During a Monday press briefing, a reporter asked Hussein [Transport Minister for Malaysia] about reports that a media personality received an open letter from the Leader of Chinese Martyr Brigade claiming responsibility for the incident. When asked about the letter, a Malaysian official said, "Yes, there is sound ground to say it is true, but again, we have said from the beginning that we are not taking anything for granted."