Mental Health in Ladies' Skating

[Colonel Green]

And there is plenty of time to change her mind.

Of course, but I don’t imagine her Nationals announcement from only a couple of days ago was done at random. She and her team surely put a lot of thought into her current situation and what’s realistic for her in the following three weeks.

Whether she should be competing is a separate and very open question.

 

[Carolla5501]

I think we as fans need to accept some responsibility. Most of these people are young and having adults, who should know better, hide behind Internet names and say nasty things about their weight, their ability, their clothing, their facial expressions, or their mental health based only on our prejudices and total lack of information probably is not a positive reinforcement


Even in this thread there’s an entire group of people who know nothing about the skaters condition besides limited information the skater has chosen to post publicly who “know” for some reason that that skater should not be competing at nationals next month. How do you know this? What insight do you have that makes you know this? The truth is you don’t and that’s part of the problem.


I think a good idea is for all of us to quit passing judgment on skaters, to quit assuming that we,with no insight, know what’s best and that people around the skater are clueless. And to quit saying things on the Internet that we would not be proud to say to the skater’s face. So if you could actually walk up to a skater and say “you’re fat and you have an ugly dress” then I guess you can post it on here and feel fine but most of us wouldn’t be that rude.

 

[Japanfan]

I think we as fans need to accept some responsibility. Most of these people are young and having adults, who should know better, hide behind Internet names and say nasty things about their weight, their ability, their clothing, their facial expressions, or their mental health based only on our prejudices and total lack of information probably is not a positive reinforcement

I don't quite follow you - responsibility for what? If you mean that fans are responsible for skaters' mental health issues, that's

I don't know whether skaters follow FSU or other internet forums. I would think not - either because they don't have the time or because they (understandably) don't want to read criticisms of themselves.

Even in this thread there’s an entire group of people who know nothing about the skaters condition besides limited information the skater has chosen to post publicly who “know” for some reason that that skater should not be competing at nationals next month. How do you know this? What insight do you have that makes you know this? The truth is you don’t and that’s part of the problem.

The is an online forum for FS discussion. People express opinions based on limited information all the time.

I think a good idea is for all of us to quit passing judgment on skaters, to quit assuming that we,with no insight, know what’s best and that people around the skater are clueless. And to quit saying things on the Internet that we would not be proud to say to the skater’s face. So if you could actually walk up to a skater and say “you’re fat and you have an ugly dress” then I guess you can post it on here and feel fine but most of us wouldn’t be that rude.

Again, this is an online forum for FS discussion. Some posters are going to pass judgment on skaters, and others with disagree with their judgment. And then someone like yourself will say posters should not be passing judgment.

That's just the nature of the that characterizes a discussion forum.

And FWIW, I don't think anyone has said anything rude about skaters in this thread.

My view is that I don't know whether Gabby should be competing. I don't have an opinion on it at the moment. If she does show up at Nationals (which it appears she will do), may have more of an opinion based on how she does.

 

[overedge]

Wow. Gabby. I hope she prioritizes her mental health and doesn't put pressure on herself to compete this year. Based on that post I wouldn't expect to see her at nationals and probably not beyond that.

I suspect one of the learnings here is to make mental health management a proactive part of your training from early on, especially if you plan to become elite or otherwise end up in the spotlight. Just like off ice training, nutrition, recovery, etc it should be part and parcel of what you do. And for those already doing this, make sure you're getting the most out of that form of conditioning.

I would assume that means something like engaging a sports psychologist early in your career....even if you don't think you need it. Proactively maintain instead of waiting for something to break, and then try to fix it. Clearly with what we've seen, these things are a journey to fix.

I agree with all of this, but I also think there's a responsibility on the part of the sport - as in coaches, officials, administrators, board members, etc. - to be proactive in creating a healthy atmosphere within the sport itself. That tends to get lost when we focus on the stories of individual athletes such as Gabby and Gracie Gold. Both are incredibly brave and strong women, but when we cheer them on in their healing, IMO we sometimes lose sight of how the sport also needs to fix itself, to help them and other athletes in the future.

 

[Orm Irian]

I would assume that means something like engaging a sports psychologist early in your career....even if you don't think you need it.

Sports psychologists may be able to assist in the treatment or prevention of things like disordered eating, but they focus on performance issues and can't - literally aren't licensed to, unless they have the relevant qualifications in addition to their sports psych qualifications - treat broader mental health conditions such as depression, clinical anxiety and ADHD. Working with one would have no impact at all on the kind of illnesses Daleman talked about in her post..

 

[becca]

Mental health is important and nobody should be cruel. BUT facing criticism for a performance is part of the deal that comes with playing a public sport. And that includes being criticized by fans. Performance under pressure at a high level is I am sure incredibly stressful and taxing and I am not sure everyone can do it. Yes coaches and parents need to be concerned mental health.

If though you can learn to compete well under pressure you can get far in life.

As for the coaches don’t give parents reasonable expectations with the age of the internet how much is it just the coaches fault I mean right now you have the Russian quadster tweens.

Of course this can be diasasterous for your girls but if you can see your child at 14/15 is struggling with some of the harder triples......

 

[overedge]

@becca When skaters are being told by coaches and judges and officials that they are "too fat" when they are performing more than well at that weight - that is wrong and it can damage the skater for life. That is not about learning to deal with adversity or about dealing with performing in public - it's abuse and it needs to stop.

 

[canbelto]

@becca When skaters are being told by coaches and judges and officials that they are "too fat" when they are performing more than well at that weight - that is wrong and it can damage the skater for life. That is not about learning to deal with adversity or about dealing with performing in public - it's abuse and it needs to stop.

I saw the effects of that when I listened to Yulia Lipnitskaya do some commentary for Pyeongchang. She called Nathan Chen "fat." I don't know how anyone can look at Nathan Chen and think "fat." She might not be on a powdered diet anymore but the severe body image issues have obviously stayed with her.

 

[becca]

@becca When skaters are being told by coaches and judges and officials that they are "too fat" when they are performing more than well at that weight - that is wrong and it can damage the skater for life. That is not about learning to deal with adversity or about dealing with performing in public - it's abuse and it needs to stop.

I said no one should be cruel I think there is a big difference between criticizing someone’s body and a performance.

 

[starrynight]

I saw the effects of that when I listened to Yulia Lipnitskaya do some commentary for Pyeongchang. She called Nathan Chen "fat." I don't know how anyone can look at Nathan Chen and think "fat." She might not be on a powdered diet anymore but the severe body image issues have obviously stayed with her.

And that's the kind of thing which can be cyclical. Lipnitskaya is coaching now. Attitudes can get passed down from coaches to students who then become coaches themselves.

 

[hoptoad]

Sports psychologists may be able to assist in the treatment or prevention of things like disordered eating, but they focus on performance issues and can't - literally aren't licensed to, unless they have the relevant qualifications in addition to their sports psych qualifications - treat broader mental health conditions such as depression, clinical anxiety and ADHD. Working with one would have no impact at all on the kind of illnesses Daleman talked about in her post..

I have always understood the term "sports psychologist" to mean someone who WAS a licensed psychologist and who specialized in issues faced by athletes. Depression, anxiety, attention issues, eating disorders, and family dynamics are all pretty basic issues that I would expect all psychologists to have some training and experience in and are certainly predictable issues for athletes that any sports psychologist should expect to deal with.

Are there "sports psychologists" who aren't licensed? If they are not licensed, they would probably have to call themselves something else.

 

[Carolla5501]

I don't quite follow you - responsibility for what? If you mean that fans are responsible for skaters' mental health issues, that's

I don't know whether skaters follow FSU or other internet forums. I would think not - either because they don't have the time or because they (understandably) don't want to read criticisms of themselves.



The is an online forum for FS discussion. People express opinions based on limited information all the time.



Again, this is an online forum for FS discussion. Some posters are going to pass judgment on skaters, and others with disagree with their judgment. And then someone like yourself will say posters should not be passing judgment.

That's just the nature of the that characterizes a discussion forum.

And FWIW, I don't think anyone has said anything rude about skaters in this thread.

My view is that I don't know whether Gabby should be competing. I don't have an opinion on it at the moment. If she does show up at Nationals (which it appears she will do), may have more of an opinion based on how she does.

Responsibility for our impact on the mental health of these young men and women. If you can’t figure that out you might be part of the problem.

 

[Jupiter]

And I'll add Sylvie Bernier, 1988 gold medalist in diving and Sylvie Frechette, 1992 gold medalist in solo synchronized swimming as athletes having publically going out about their depression post-Olympics.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/photos/canadian-athletes-who-battled-against-depression-1431372381-slideshow/josée-chouinard-photo-1431372080615.html

If you can understand some French, here is a great reportage about depression among elite athletes, including Josee Chouinard : https://zonevideo.telequebec.tv/media/9390/la-depression/ma-vie-apres-le-sport

Thank you for that. I'm always looking for Josée Chouinard interviews and find so few. She is actually quite interesting when she addresses any of her "failures"; insightful about that aspect of mental health.

 

[overedge]

I said no one should be cruel I think there is a big difference between criticizing someone’s body and a performance.

Saying that someone is too fat, with the implication that it's affecting their performance or how their performance is perceived, is indeed criticizing their performance.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I have always understood the term "sports psychologist" to mean someone who WAS a licensed psychologist and who specialized in issues faced by athletes. Depression, anxiety, attention issues, eating disorders, and family dynamics are all pretty basic issues that I would expect all psychologists to have some training and experience in and are certainly predictable issues for athletes that any sports psychologist should expect to deal with.

Are there "sports psychologists" who aren't licensed? If they are not licensed, they would probably have to call themselves something else.

Sports psychologists are NOT licensed psychologists and are not qualified to diagnose or treat mental/emotional disorders.

 

[Zazy]

I don't know whether skaters follow FSU or other internet forums. I would think not - either because they don't have the time or because they (understandably) don't want to read criticisms of themselves.

I'm sure lots of skaters read this forum. And if they're not reading it personally, they probably have people in their lives who do. Think about it, wouldn't you be tempted to know what people are saying about you, even if you know it's not a good idea? Especially as a teenager/young adult with self-esteem issues?

I can't seem to find it but years ago Jenny Kirk had a blog post where she said that a number of skaters would keep up with what was said about them on FSU, some obsessively so, and that it was common enough that coaches would advise against it. This doesn't mean individual posters are personally responsible for a skater's mental health issues, the problem is more complex than that. But it's probably a good idea to be aware that what we're writing could easily get back to the skater (both here and on twitter/instagram).

 

[Japanfan]

Responsibility for our impact on the mental health of these young men and women. If you can’t figure that out you might be part of the problem.

Wrong. You did not say 'responsibility FOR WHAT in your post.

I think we as fans need to accept some responsibility. Most of these people are young and having adults, who should know better, hide behind Internet names and say nasty things about their weight, their ability, their clothing, their facial expressions, or their mental health based only on our prejudices and total lack of information probably is not a positive reinforcement

You did not clarify whether you referred to responsibility for mental health, for weight-related issues, or for promoting self-esteem in skaters.

Also, it's arguable whether fans are responsible for mental health/eating issues among skaters.

 

[Orm Irian]

I have always understood the term "sports psychologist" to mean someone who WAS a licensed psychologist and who specialized in issues faced by athletes.

I believe there are some who are, and who are licensed to treat mental conditions and illnesses, but the field was initially developed by physical education specialists rather than as a branch of clinical psychology, and as a result its focus is on how psychological factors affect performance, rather than on diagnosing and treating mental illnesses in athletes or anyone else. It tends to focus on developing psychological skills that support performance improvement, the mental aspects of injury management and career management, team building etc. If you like, it's more a kind of applied psychology discipline than a clinical one.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I'm sure lots of skaters read this forum. And if they're not reading it personally, they probably have people in their lives who do. Think about it, wouldn't you be tempted to know what people are saying about you, even if you know it's not a good idea? Especially as a teenager/young adult with self-esteem issues?

I can't seem to find it but years ago Jenny Kirk had a blog post where she said that a number of skaters would keep up with what was said about them on FSU, some obsessively so, and that it was common enough that coaches would advise against it. This doesn't mean individual posters are personally responsible for a skater's mental health issues, the problem is more complex than that. But it's probably a good idea to be aware that what we're writing could easily get back to the skater (both here and on twitter/instagram).

Athletes coming here to read comments are taking a risk, it is a forum to discuss skating and that will include negative comments. Hopefully, we are more careful with the title of threads, and won't be along the lines "xyz is horrible skater with horrible jumps". Posting on instagram account of skater and their friends/family with negative comments is a form of bullying, we are seeing that a lot.

 

[livetoskate]

I saw the effects of that when I listened to Yulia Lipnitskaya do some commentary for Pyeongchang. She called Nathan Chen "fat." I don't know how anyone can look at Nathan Chen and think "fat." She might not be on a powdered diet anymore but the severe body image issues have obviously stayed with her.

I can't be sure since I don't understand Russian, but I read that she said Nathan's skating style was heavy, not that he was fat. Someone's crazy if they think Nathan is fat.

 

[Wyliefan]

Yeah, that one got debunked a while ago.

To be fair to her, she said something like his skating was a little heavy (as in laboured) that day, but it's funnier to run with this.

 

[Vagabond]

I can't be sure since I don't understand Russian, but I read that she said Nathan's skating style was heavy, not that he was fat. Someone's crazy if they think Nathan is fat.

Yeah, that one got debunked a while ago.

Did it?

According to at least one native speaker of Russian here on FSU (@Andrey aka Pushkin) who was listening to the Russian feed, Lipnitskaya did say that Chen was fat.

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...s-the-im-pooh-sible-dream.103387/post-5295999

I am inclined to believe that the purported debunking was disinformation by people who would prefer to think better of Lipnitskaya than she deserves.

 

[babayaga]

Does anyone have a link to Nathan's performance with Yulia's commentary? I am curious to hear what she actually said now

 

[canbelto]

I'm actually not surprised at all that Lipnitskaya called Chen fat. This is a girl who admitted she had an eating disorder, and that she spent most of her competitive career on a powdered diet. Outside of a ton of therapy I'm not sure anyone will walk away from that without severe body image issues as well as a mindset that being "fat" is the reason for all skating struggles. Chen had been struggling in his skating in the Olys prior to the LP. It's depressing but these things are often a cycle.

 

[Japanfan]

Athletes coming here to read comments are taking a risk, it is a forum to discuss skating and that will include negative comments. Hopefully, we are more careful with the title of threads, and won't be along the lines "xyz is horrible skater with horrible jumps". Posting on instagram account of skater and their friends/family with negative comments is a form of bullying, we are seeing that a lot.

Athletes choose to come here. This is a discussion forum, not a fan club. There are going to be all sorts of discussions, there's going to be critiques, and there are going to be both positive and negative viewpoints.

I'm opposed to censoring the board even for titles.

Think about it, wouldn't you be tempted to know what people are saying about you, even if you know it's not a good idea? Especially as a teenager/young adult with self-esteem issues?

IDK. If I was a competitive athlete, maybe not.

Much as actors may choose not to read reviews of plays and films that they perform in.

Reviewers don't write nice reviews just to be kind to actors.

But it's probably a good idea to be aware that what we're writing could easily get back to the skater (both here and on twitter/instagram).

Again, I'm opposed to censorship.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Athletes choose to come here. This is a discussion forum, not a fan club. There are going to be all sorts of discussions, there's going to be critiques, and there are going to be both positive and negative viewpoints.

I'm opposed to censoring the board even for titles.

The problem with titles are that a simple google search may show that as the top result. This is unlikely to be a problem for someone like Zag but for a 13 year skater new to competition a title like that may be the only news article or information that pops up. I think we had such a case in the past and I don't remember what admins did in the end with that thread.

 

[canbelto]

Again, I'm opposed to censorship.

So if athletes were called racial slurs here (which the mods do not allow) you're okay with that?

 

[mjb52]

I don't think anyone is calling for censorship, just mindfulness. Of course athletes should be careful about coming to a place like this, but it can't hurt to occasionally remember that they might, especially when it comes to the young ones.

 

[Japanfan]

So if athletes were called racial slurs here (which the mods do not allow) you're okay with that?

Not at all, and same goes for any insults based on gender, identity, or sexual orientation.

I was responding specifically to 'negative comments' in this post:

Athletes coming here to read comments are taking a risk, it is a forum to discuss skating and that will include negative comments. Hopefully, we are more careful with the title of threads, and won't be along the lines "xyz is horrible skater with horrible jumps". Posting on instagram account of skater and their friends/family with negative comments is a form of bullying, we are seeing that a lot.

There have been many critiques of training regimes and techniques and what not on this board. And comments such as 'that skate was a hot mess' in PBP threads.

I don't want such critiques and comments to be censored just because a skater might read them. This board is a discussion board, not a fan forum.

I don't think anyone is calling for censorship, just mindfulness. Of course athletes should be careful about coming to a place like this, but it can't hurt to occasionally remember that they might, especially when it comes to the young ones.

What constitutes 'mindfulness' is quite open to debate.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Sports psychologists are trained psychologists, at least in Québec. You need your PhD in psychology and member of the professional order in order to hold the title "psychologist"