Maturity vs age appropriateness

[coppertop1]

When a female skater is a teenager in the senior ranks, it can be tricky to appear mature yet age appropriate yet still senior. What is the key? I don't mean age limits, I mean in terms of packaging.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Skating to a mashup of "Mama I'm a Big Girl Now" and "Milkshake" by Kelis.

 

[Vagabond]

Getting Ted Barton to say some other skater is a younger version of you.

 

[coppertop1]

Seems the comedians are out

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

...but they're pretty funny!

That's a big question... Maturity comes by itself, both physically and psychologically. One can always cheat by putting more make-up, skating to more mature theme, dressing up... but truly, it clashes most of the time. I'd say dancing classes, pointed toes, great lines and musicality will always do the job. Working on the details. Just trying to be true to oneself will always be the right way to go. I think they did the good thiing with Lipnitskaya at the last Olympics, where she skated her long program as a girl, not a lady, but the whole skating looked refine at the same time.

 

[mag]

I would suggest that skating to "Big Spender" when 13 years old, is probably not the way to go.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I would suggest that skating to "Big Spender" when 13 years old, is probably not the way to go.

...unless you don't know the English language and the story behind the song. It happens often around here (not FSU... )

ETA : How many 12yo have I seen skating to "Man, I feel like a woman"... too many!

 

[SmallFairy]

Well, Aaron Carter sung "Crush on you" when he was 10,and by the time he was 13 his new was his candy. The song ended with:
Candy baby can't you see,
All I want is your candy


Soooo, I guess kids won't be kids for long anyway.

 

[mag]

...unless you don't know the English language and the story behind the song. It happens often around here (not FSU... )

ETA : How many 12yo have I seen skating to "Man, I feel like a woman"... too many!

I agree that she doesn't know English. You could tell that she was confused about the announcing. I don't blame the 13 year old at all! I also know that this particular piece of music has a great beat which makes it relatively easy to interpret (especially so if you don't understand the lyrics) so I understand that could make it appealing to a choreographer.
Now she is not the first child I have seen skate to this. Before lyrics are allowed in lower level local comps, Big Spender was often used for kids in prelim. It just seems much worse with the lyrics.

Oh, and I also agree about "Man, I feel like a woman" and I would add "Fever" to that list as well.

 

[Marco]

That's a big question... Maturity comes by itself, both physically and psychologically. One can always cheat by putting more make-up, skating to more mature theme, dressing up... but truly, it clashes most of the time. I'd say dancing classes, pointed toes, great lines and musicality will always do the job. Working on the details. Just trying to be true to oneself will always be the right way to go.

I felt Sasha Cohen circa 2000 was skating incredibly maturely with the way she carried herself at 2000 Nationals, despite being 13. For me it's more to do with taking the time to express yourself and paying attention to detail. Skaters like Kwan and Cohen did not look to have a single arm movement out of place skating as 16 year olds. A lot of the Russian girls are just the exact opposite - indifferent posture, too much arm movements, way too hectic, no finesse - juniorish.

 

[patchris84]

A perfect example of the day for maturity at young age. A russian girl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROXyr4kVTg&t=219s
A second example from last week
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5fxy0x-4Ho&t=95s

 

[gkelly]

Seems to be a combination physical maturation, which the skaters don't have much control over, and carriage/core strength/awareness of where the limbs are in space, which they do.

 

[Marco]

And then there's Marin Honda, who looks young and exuberant, but nonetheless extremely mature in her skating, I believe even more so than Mao at the same age.

 

[coppertop1]

And then there's Marin Honda, who looks young and exuberant, but nonetheless extremely mature in her skating, I believe even more so than Mao at the same age.

I was about to mention her. Her skating skills and poise are incredible for a skater her age. I think it helps when skaters have good basics. It goes a long way in helping with maturity

 

[VGThuy]

When a female skater is a teenager in the senior ranks, it can be tricky to appear mature yet age appropriate yet still senior. What is the key? I don't mean age limits, I mean in terms of packaging.

I think it's something that the skater has inside of them, but also a good team who fosters that and knows how to teach the skater to move and present themselves in a way that reads more mature. Not just caking on make-up, putting her hair in a bun, and dressing them well. It's beyond the superficial but really tapping into something inside and having them move with a certain poise, attention to detail to the moves and music, and encouraging the skater to continue to work on the more artistic aspects of their craft.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Two examples today in Riga. 14 yo, 40 kg girl skating to Carmina Burana. Nearly knocked over by the sound waves. Or another to the Casa Diva from Norma in which the title character produces children out of wedlock for a man who doesn't love her. Coaches teaching skaters to not bother relating to the music.

 

[all_empty]

And then there's Marin Honda, who looks young and exuberant, but nonetheless extremely mature in her skating, I believe even more so than Mao at the same age.

Both had poise and skating skills at a young age. But choreography can play a part as well.

The problem with Mao is that they Yamada gave her relatively immature programs in her first year as a senior (Baby Carmen and Nutcracker in pink). I loved her programs from the previous year (Somewhere Over the Rainbow and La Boutique Fantastique) which were both age appropriate and mature.

Tara Lipinski's Olympic year programs seemed a step back from the U.S. and World-championship winning programs from the year before. Ditto with Polina Edmunds, who burst on the scene with two great programs (that earned her a berth at the Olympics) but was criticized for music choices in later years.

For some skaters, like Nicole Bobek, those cutesy flirty programs played to their strengths.

As for the new crop of Russian young ladies under Tuberidze, they do seem to lack finesse. Those with other coaches entering their second/third year of juniors -- Gubanova, Fedichkina, Nugumanova -- are more appealing to watch for me.

 

[coppertop1]

Elena Radionova is another skater to add to the list above. Her programs in 2014-15 suited but her programs since haven't been as strong. The music in her LP to Titanic was poorly edited and the choreography seemed rushed. This year was better but it seems that she needs a choreographer who can teach her to emote and stretch out

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Both had poise and skating skills at a young age. But choreography can play a part as well.



For some skaters, like Nicole Bobek, those cutesy flirty programs played to their strengths.

As for the new crop of Russian young ladies under Tuberidze, they do seem to lack finesse. Those with other coaches entering their second/third year of juniors -- Gubanova, Fedichkina, Nugumanova -- are more appealing to watch for me.

Elena Radionova is another skater to add to the list above. Her programs in 2014-15 suited but her programs since haven't been as strong. The music in her LP to Titanic was poorly edited and the choreography seemed rushed. This year was better but it seems that she needs a choreographer who can teach her to emote and stretch out

I've just watched her Lp for the Russian test skate an dI was thinking she is an example of a now-big-girl skating somewhat childish at times. Let me explain. There is something rushed in her skating that reminds me of the younger skaters/lower level skaters. She sure tries to emote to the music but yet there is something missing. I cannot explain it... Like big girl moves with some teenage skating. Maybe someone's gonna be better than me at pinpointing what is not "in punto".

 

[Marco]

Just look at the top 4 ladies at 1995 Worlds. Lu and Nicole were incredibly mature and polished, and earned top artistic impression scores. Surya was an older skater but her skating wasn't polished at all. Michelle was young (no make up, ponytail) but her skating was relatively mature and polished (sans power). Turns out the judges chose Surya over Michelle in both the short and the free despite Michelle having much cleaner jumps and better presentation.

The lesson is that the appearance of maturity does matter. That's what I meant when I drew the comparison between Marin and Mao.

 

[Marco]

And then there's Marin Honda, who looks young and exuberant, but nonetheless extremely mature in her skating, I believe even more so than Mao at the same age.

And also Emmy Ma.

 

[coppertop1]

I've just watched her Lp for the Russian test skate an dI was thinking she is an example of a now-big-girl skating somewhat childish at times. Let me explain. There is something rushed in her skating that reminds me of the younger skaters/lower level skaters. She sure tries to emote to the music but yet there is something missing. I cannot explain it... Like big girl moves with some teenage skating. Maybe someone's gonna be better than me at pinpointing what is not "in punto".

Exactly. Her programs always seem frantic and rushed. She does seem to flail around instead of holding her moves or expressing the music. IMO, that will really hurt her especially with Honda, who is two years younger and other skaters who are her age and more refined.

 

[Marco]

And also Emmy Ma.

I just rewatched her again and was remembering the good old days when this refined style of skating was rewarded. Holding the positions. Sitting on jump landings. Instead, it's all about doing some edge maneuver or leg kick after every single jump landing "to display control" whether or not the music calls for it.