Mass Shooting at LGBT Nightclub in Orlando

[quartz]

London Ontario, vigil tomorrow at Aeolian Hall. I think it starts at 630pm.

 

[skatefan]

Wow. How could anyone not see this as a homophobic attack? Why insist that it must be a religiously motivated terrorist attack instead? Why can't it be a homophobic religiously motivated terrorist attack?

I know! It was bizarre. Good on Owen to walk out

 

[snoopy]

What does bearable mean in this context? If we are doing nothing, whether we are gun supporters or not, I think that means gun violence is bearable to us. I'm not doing anything in particular and I'd have to say that means the level of US gun violence is bearable to me. If it was unbearable, I'd be doing something more than posting about it on FSU. Which is shame on me.

 

[pat c]

Where are the responsible gun owners demanding a ban on assault rifles? How is there not a coalition within the NRA demanding change about gun access? Is there one and it just doesn't get press?

I went to the vigil in Seattle last night and I'm still shattered this morning.

What a thought provoking question. Yes, why isn't the NRA calling for a ban on semi-automatics. I hadn't thought of it, but my excuse is I'm Cdn. I remember what a fiasco the gun registry legislation here turned out to be.

Fast guess is that it wouldn't work? Too many people like their toys? Too many private militias? (shrug)

I thought of all of you that went to vigils or are going to one. What a terrible tragedy this is, like all the others. It really made me think when I read that this is the 18th time Obama has had to make a speech to do with this kind of tragedy. 18 times.

sigh

 

[Vash01]

What a thought provoking question. Yes, why isn't the NRA calling for a ban on semi-automatics. I hadn't thought of it, but my excuse is I'm Cdn. I remember what a fiasco the gun registry legislation here turned out to be.

Fast guess is that it wouldn't work? Too many people like their toys? Too many private militias? (shrug)

I thought of all of you that went to vigils or are going to one. What a terrible tragedy this is, like all the others. It really made me think when I read that this is the 18th time Obama has had to make a speech to do with this kind of tragedy. 18 times.

sigh

The NRA is only concerned about making money. Ban on even some products like semi-automatics would cost the manufacturers profits. They don't care if people die. Some NRA members are actually OK with background checks but the powers within NRA control many of our politicians because the NRA contributes to their campaigns. If I were a politician I wouldn't take a penny from such an evil organization (this morning 'evil' seems to be my favorite word ).

Yes, too many people like their toys but it doesn't mean they would be opposed to sensible gun control. Many are ignorant and are being fed the perverted idea of freedom- to carry guns- and a misinterpretation of the second amendment. They are so brain washed that they will insist on not having any kind of restraint on the purchase of guns. The ignorance is mind boggling.

I didn't go to the local vigil last night but I am just as rattled as everyone else by this tragedy. I am sure the NRA and their followers don't care.

 

[agalisgv]

Maybe it is due to terminology. As soon as you say "gun control" or "gun regulations"' the immediate knee jerk reaction is they want to take all guns away.

Maybe we need another approach to the issue but I haven't an answer at the moment..

I think one issue is when people talk about gun control, there's no consensus of what that entails. Some think handguns should be banned, others assault-style weapons, others high capacity magazines, etc.

And for many who advocate gun control, they have little to no exposure to guns, so the prescriptions offered can be reflective of that. For example, one person (not here) spoke about the need to ban automatic weapons in the US, and didn't realize those are already banned.

And some issues are just thorny. If gun ownership is a constitutional right (which the SC has affirmed), how do you remove that right from someone for being under investigation but not charged or convicted?

Just to be clear, I think gun regulation is a good thing. But I think there are a lot of details which make regulation tricky, and often go unacknowledged.

 

[Vash01]

I think one issue is when people talk about gun control, there's no consensus of what that entails. Some think handguns should be banned, others assault-style weapons, others high capacity magazines, etc.

And for many who advocate gun control, they have little to no exposure to guns, so the prescriptions offered can be reflective of that. For example, one person (not here) spoke about the need to ban automatic weapons in the US, and didn't realize those are already banned.

And some issues are just thorny. If gun ownership is a constitutional right (which the SC has affirmed), how do you remove that right from someone for being under investigation but not charged or convicted?

Just to be clear, I think gun regulation is a good thing. But I think there are a lot of details which make regulation tricky, and often go unacknowledged.

Just because an issue is complex doesn't mean it should not be worked on.

 

[Vash01]

London Ontario, vigil tomorrow at Aeolian Hall. I think it starts at 630pm.

So nice to see our neighbors to the north participating in this!

 

[sweetsparky]

City Hall in my town (Cádiz) had raised the rainbow flag for the Pride celebration but will keep it with a black ribbon to somehow express our condolences to the families and friends of the victims.

 

[quartz]

So nice to see our neighbors to the north participating in this!

It's Pride Month in Canada too.

 

[agalisgv]

Just because an issue is complex doesn't mean it should not be worked on.

Absolutely!

 

[Vash01]

Not to distract from the important discussions, but this morning I am seeing our media reporting 49 dead and 53 injured. May be the count was wrong yesterday? It shouldn't matter really whether it was 49 or 50, but I was a little surprised. One murder is too many.

Apparently only one person out of the 43 injured was sent home yesterday. It means everyone else has serious injuries. I hope the police are able to connect the victims and their families. It must be really tough for everyone.

 

[Wyliefan]

I heard that the killer is not being counted among the victims, but counted as a separate death. Which makes sense.

 

[skatingfan5]

Not to distract from the important discussions, but this morning I am seeing our media reporting 49 dead and 53 injured. May be the count was wrong yesterday? It shouldn't matter really whether it was 49 or 50, but I was a little surprised. One murder is too many.

The original number of 50 dead included the gunman/murderer. The 49 refers to the number of his victims who were killed.

 

[Vash01]

The original number of 50 dead included the gunman/murderer. The 49 refers to the number of his victims who were killed.

Makes sense.

Changing topic:

"On the other hand, Trump said that if people in Pulse had been armed, the scope of the tragedy would have been lessened.
"If you had guns in that room, if you had -- even if you had a number of people having them strapped to their ankle or strapped to their waist, where bullets could have flown in the other direction right at him, you wouldn't have had the same kind of a tragedy," Trump said on CNN."

So, when someone goes to a nightclub or a movie or (fill in the blanks) for entertainment, relaxation, or socialization, that person should carry a gun. Right Donald? What a wonderful society we will have and how safe we will be (sarcasm)!

Later in that speech he goes on and on about how Obama must be hiding something because he won't use the term 'Radical Islam'.

 

[susan6]

What a thought provoking question. Yes, why isn't the NRA calling for a ban on semi-automatics.

Fast guess is that it wouldn't work? Too many people like their toys? Too many private militias?

All of the above. People like their toys. Many gun owners get physical and mental pleasure from firing off assault rifles. It's basically masturbation. And I say this as someone who has relatives who own assault rifles. Trust me. It's masturbation.

I have no problem with hunting rifles and handguns. But assault rifles are ridiculous and should be banned. Assault rifles have ONE use: to kill as many people in the shortest amount of time possible. You're not going to use an assault rifle to hunt a deer or protect your home. The ONLY reason anyone should have an assault rifle is if he/she is wearing a uniform and standing in a war zone.

 

[pat c]

I think one issue is when people talk about gun control, there's no consensus of what that entails. Some think handguns should be banned, others assault-style weapons, others high capacity magazines, etc.

And for many who advocate gun control, they have little to no exposure to guns, so the prescriptions offered can be reflective of that. For example, one person (not here) spoke about the need to ban automatic weapons in the US, and didn't realize those are already banned.

And some issues are just thorny. If gun ownership is a constitutional right (which the SC has affirmed), how do you remove that right from someone for being under investigation but not charged or convicted?

Just to be clear, I think gun regulation is a good thing. But I think there are a lot of details which make regulation tricky, and often go unacknowledged.

Yes, it is all in the details. One thing I've thought Canada did wrong in their gun registration attempt was that they didn't take into consideration location, and you might think a blanket approach will work, but it won't. As an example, hunters and trappers don't have easy access to register their guns, make it easy and also your need for a gun in Alaska is much different than gun ownership in NY.

 

[twinsissv]

I just heard this. Never heard more appropriate words...
Orlando...the Unhappiest Place on Earth.

 

[Skittl1321]

"If you had guns in that room, if you had -- even if you had a number of people having them strapped to their ankle or strapped to their waist, where bullets could have flown in the other direction right at him, you wouldn't have had the same kind of a tragedy," Trump said on CNN."

I am just so not convinced that other people with guns helps this.
Let's say I have a gun (and if I do, surely everyone does...). I hear gun shots ring out, see a guy shooting, and because I'm now expected to respond (sure hope I have training that is going to make certain I don't misfire and take bystanders down because I'm freaked out) so I take my gun out and shoot the guy with a gun. Oh wait, he was doing what I did too- he wasn't the original shooter. Hopefully no one else has a gun and shoots me, not realizing the first shots didn't come from me and I was "helping". How do we determine who is the bad guy if everyone has a gun out shooting?

I don't recall things working out real great in gun fights in the "Wild West" (where bullets flew at much slower rates) and that seems to be what is being proposed.

 

[genevieve]

For a little levity (and to step back from the gun debate): during the vigil last night, I realized that there is no way I can skip Pride this year. I don't usually attend, because it's become a corporate snooze with half-assed floats

 

[MsZem]

"On the other hand, Trump said that if people in Pulse had been armed, the scope of the tragedy would have been lessened.
"If you had guns in that room, if you had -- even if you had a number of people having them strapped to their ankle or strapped to their waist, where bullets could have flown in the other direction right at him, you wouldn't have had the same kind of a tragedy," Trump said on CNN."

So basically, a bunch of uncoordinated people with no tactical experience shooting in an enclosed place filled with other people. They might have gotten the shooter faster, but I can't imagine that wouldn't result in fatalities, too.

I believe that the attackers in Tel-Aviv last week were slowed down by a man wielding a chair (it is probably not advisable to take on shooters carrying submachine guns with only a chair as a weapon; the guy was incredibly brave).

 

[skatesindreams]

Trump has no way to know if his assertions are true.
Since most of what he says has little basis in fact, it's doubtful.

 

[quartz]

The whole "if other people had guns, they could have got the bad guy with a gun and saved everyones' life" argument makes me

Or, simplistically,
If one kid on the playground throws a rock at another kid on the playground, the best way to protect everyone is to give ALL THE KIDS A ROCK.

Trump is such a fcukhead.

 

[MsZem]

The whole "if other people had guns, they could have got the bad guy with a gun and saved everyones' life" argument makes me

I particularly loathe the version where if the Jews in Europe had guns then there would have been no Holocaust.

 

[Vash01]

Trump has no way to know if his assertions are true.
Since most of what he says has little basis in fact, it's doubtful.

He doesn't care if they are true or not. Yet he is able to convince others that they are true. That's why he is so dangerous.

 

[Prancer]

But this was part of a long pattern of bad behavior. Twenty years ago most rant and ravers never went beyond that point.

Most rant and ravers don't go beyond that point now.

In the last 10 years it seems that more rant and ravers eventually went to carry out their deeds.

The number of people who carry out deeds is very small, even with fluctuations over time. But you know that.

Compare that to the number of people who say ghastly things on Facebook.

This guy should have been kept on a watch list which might have prevented him from purchasing the weapons two weeks ago he used.

But I don't believe that there is such a thing, something Obama addressed directly in the townhall video linked upthread--people can be put on the no-fly list because of suspected terrorist connections, but those same people can buy guns.

 

[Sylvia]

45 of the 49 victims who died have been identified by name: http://www.cityoforlando.net/blog/victims/

As the shootings unfolded, a horror for 1 mother via text: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e510...84f/shootings-unfolded-horror-one-mother-text
(Her son's death is confirmed now -- Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30 years old .)

 

[TOADS]

But I don't believe that there is such a thing, something Obama addressed directly in the townhall video linked upthread--people can be put on the no-fly list because of suspected terrorist connections, but those same people can buy guns.

I have a feeling that will change soon...

Don't know about the Facebook thing since I don't want to have anything to do with it......

 

[VGThuy]

45 of the 49 victims who died have been identified by name: http://www.cityoforlando.net/blog/victims/

As the shootings unfolded, a horror for 1 mother via text: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e510...84f/shootings-unfolded-horror-one-mother-text
(Her son's death is confirmed now -- Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30 years old .)

This is heartbreaking.

 

[PDilemma]

I have a feeling that will change soon...

Don't know about the Facebook thing since I don't want to have anything to do with it......

Congress actually voted down a bill that would have banned suspected terrorists (i.e. those on the 'no fly' list) from buying guns. I doubt it will change. That vote came one day after San Bernardino. The gun lobby is heavily invested in no regulation of guns whatsoever for any reason.

Link: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gop-blocks-bill-stop-terrorists-buying-guns