LA County Fires / Palisades Fire

[Vagabond]

In the Palisades, an Evacuation Disaster Was Years in the Making

Some Pacific Palisades residents said the community had long asked for more detailed fire preparation plans. When a fire raged through the community this week, gridlock ensued.

www.nytimes.com

(Not gifted. Deal with it.)

Over the past decade, residents have held meetings and sent emails urging local officials to recognize the potential for problems with evacuation and do more to avoid the risk of future disaster. In a 2020 message to Los Angeles City Council members, Palisades community leaders said that there remained “substantial risks to public safety due to crowded conditions causing back-ups on both substandard and standard streets during required evacuations.”

Not touched upon in the article is that perhaps homes should not have been constructed in certain areas in the first place, at least not without better roads. And it may have been impossible to build better roadss, ginen the terrain. This is akin to what I wrote here after Hurricane Helene.

There is a beautiful neighborhood just behind Memorial Stadium in Berkeley. It has only one street, which is long, narrow, wooded, and winding. One wildfire and Diablo winds, and there could be a catastrophe. No way I would ever buy a property there.

 

[kwanfan1818]

ne of the most devastated areas of Pacific Palisades has just ONE road of ingress/egress and it was so thoroughly congested when the fire struck on Tuesday that people had to abandon their cars & flee on foot from the fire as it spread. Now, let me ask you, why would any city planning department approve a residential development in an area that is so difficult to access that only ONE road can be built for the proposed 3000-4000 new residents? That is absolute MADNESS and unless you can explain to me how climate change affected the logic of the city planners & council who signed off on the project,

Maybe the logic is that they ignored the impacts of climate change instead of well, you know, planning for it.

 

[Sylvia]

Palisades Fire update today (Jan. 9):
https://ktla.com/news/california/wildfires/palisades-fire-thursday-live-updates/

LOS ANGELES (KTLA) – More gusty winds were forecast for Thursday as fire crews struggled to gain containment on the 17,000-acre Palisades Fire: the most destructive wildfire in Los Angeles history.
Authorities believe at least 1,000 structures, many of them homes, have been destroyed by fire, which first erupted Tuesday amid hurricane-force, dry Santa Ana winds in the area of North Piedra Morada Drive.
It quickly swept through residential and commercial districts in this affluent coastal community, prompting tens of thousands of people to flee.
Thursday morning, the fire was mapped at 17,234 acres with no containment. The cause remained under investigation.

ETA:

Pasadena’s Eaton Fire, burning more than 10K acres, remains uncontained:
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/pa...ning-more-than-10k-acres-remains-uncontained/

PASADENA, Calif. (KTLA) – The Eaton Fire, which has scorched more than 10,000 acres and killed five, remains at 0% containment as of Thursday morning, according to Cal Fire.
The devastating blaze has destroyed 972 structures as of the latest update at 4:30 a.m. Thursday. It’s unclear how many of those structures are homes and businesses.

Sunset Fire evacuations to be lifted after causing thousands to flee Hollywood Hills: https://ktla.com/news/local-news/su...er-causing-thousands-to-flee-hollywood-hills/

The Sunset Fire was reported just after just after 5:30 p.m. Wednesday on Solar Drive near Astral Drive.
Fire officials estimated the wildfire had charred at least 20 acres in the Runyon Canyon area as of 6:30 p.m. with the glow from the flames visible across Hollywood, including from the famous Walk of Fame and historic theaters on Hollywood Boulevard. [...]
Thousands of residents were forced to evacuate due to the fire but most of those were lifted in an update from officials just after midnight: [...]
The acreage burned in the fire was also updated to 43 acres.
“Fortunately, the Sunset Fire is under control,” LAFD spokesperson Margaret Stewart said while announcing the evacuation update Thursday morning.

 

[BittyBug]

The Santa Anas have existed in LA for thousands of years, awful fires have always broken out. The more man encroaches into the hills & canyons that surround the LA basin, the more likely these fires will have a devastating impact on people living there. One of the most devastated areas of Pacific Palisades has just ONE road of ingress/egress and it was so thoroughly congested when the fire struck on Tuesday that people had to abandon their cars & flee on foot from the fire as it spread. Now, let me ask you, why would any city planning department approve a residential development in an area that is so difficult to access that only ONE road can be built for the proposed 3000-4000 new residents? That is absolute MADNESS and unless you can explain to me how climate change affected the logic of the city planners & council who signed off on the project, you can sit your ass down about climate change being the reason for this tragedy.

I agree with you that development contributes to the extent of the devastation (the same is true in hurricanes), however, while I might sit my ass down, you might consider pulling your ass out of the darkness of your butt if you don't think that human-caused climate change directly contributed to the conditions leading to this disaster. There are other human-caused exacerbating factors, but the largest one is human-caused climate change.

The Los Angeles wildfires are climate disasters compounded

Conditions for a January firestorm in Los Angeles like this have not existed before now, writes a meteorologist and climate journalist

www.theguardian.com

 

[allezfred]

I believe the budget cut was needed because of increased funding to the LAPD.

Defund the police innit.

 

[BlueRidge]

There is certainly an important political dimension to the situation with the fires, but could we keep this thread for reports on what is happening on the ground? We have posters like ANL who are having to flee, and folks whose family and friends are in the way of this catastrophe. Can we stick with that here and take the necessary but difficult political discussions to PI?

 

[Karen-W]

Maybe the logic is that they ignored the impacts of climate change instead of well, you know, planning for it.

No, the logic is they built where they shouldn't have been building. And they then compounded it by not having good fire mitigation techniques.

I agree with you that development contributes to the extent of the devastation (the same is true in hurricanes), however, while I might sit my ass down, you might consider pulling your ass out of the darkness of your butt if you don't think that human-caused climate change directly contributed to the conditions leading to this disaster. There are other human-caused exacerbating factors, but the largest one is human-caused climate change.

The Los Angeles wildfires are climate disasters compounded

Conditions for a January firestorm in Los Angeles like this have not existed before now, writes a meteorologist and climate journalist

www.theguardian.com

Yes, because The Guardian knows more than the LA Times on the topic...

Fire, the price we pay

Eight thousand years ago, the Tongva and Tataviam peoples, who made their homes in what we now call the Los Angeles Basin and the San Fernando and San Gabriel valleys, did exactly what many of us have been doing for the last few days: They inhaled the bone-dry air of a wind-scoured fall afternoon…

www.latimes.com

Or PBS SoCal -

The Devil Wind: A Brief History of the Santa Anas

Santa Ana winds have long been a fact of life in Southern California – the unadvertised price residents pay for the region's otherwise idyllic weather.

www.pbssocal.org

The conditions that contributed to this disaster are known and not new nor caused by climate change.

Here's the thing... The LA basin is, naturally, a desert. Go read up on the issue of water rights in the West, especially how LA obtained water rights from the Owens Valley & the Colorado River to support the population boom it experienced through much of the 20th century. At what point does anyone stop and think "gosh, maybe Southern California cannot support this many people living in the region"? Pointing to climate change is such a ridiculous deflection of the real issues that have led to these devastating fires. The land itself cannot and has not ever been able to sustain the population it has without artificially bringing in more water from outside areas, and if you do want to lean on climate change & greenhouse emissions, then perhaps consider that all those people living in LA with the unabated population growth and the overabundance of land that led to suburban sprawl instead of building upwards are more impactful than mere climate change brought on by greenhouse gas emissions due to an over-reliance on the automobile as a primary mode of transportation (especially considering that LA & SoCal have drastically reduced the amount of smog in recent decades). Compounding the problem by building up in the canyons & hills where these fires almost always originate isn't something that happens because of climate change and you're showing just how woefully uninformed you are about what's really driving up the impact & costs of these fires.

 

[skatfan]

The conditions that contributed to this disaster are known and not new nor caused by climate change.

I will refrain from responding to this terrible take only to say that it should go to PI.

Good news on the Sunset fire — the evacuation orders are being cancelled. Hopefully we will get a fax from ANL shortly on his status.

 

[barbk]

I can't remember if this has been posted or not, but the Mayor of LA was warned by their Fire Chief last month that the $17.6 million budget cut would "severely limit" the department's capacity to prepare, train and respond to any major event such as an earthquake, wildfire, hazmat incident, etc. My heart breaks for the citizens who have lost their homes and especially the families of the 5 known fatalities. This could have been prevented or at least curtailed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877184214296068346

FWIW - there is limited firefighting that can happen with a wind-driven 70+ MPH firestorm. We saw that in the December fires in Colorado that destroyed 1100 homes in a couple of hours. The winds throw burning embers blocks and blocks away, handlily crossing large streets/trunpikes/highways and setting new areas ablaze. I don't see any way it was likely to have been prevented or curtailed given the weather conditions. If the fire start is proved to be an electrical wire down (as happened in the Witch fire in San Diego, the Colorado fire in my area, and many, many others...there may be more willingness to bury more electrical wiring, though that gets very expensive, very quickly. (In the Christmas fires a couple of years ago here, the downed wire that seems to have triggered the fire was several miles from where most of the homes burned...but 90+ mph winds had no trouble driving it through the grasslands up to the homes.)

Most homes in the Palisades were built between the late 1950s and the 1980s, long before wildfire-aware building code requirements were put in place. And regardless of what folks may be hearing about the lack of logging leading to these fires, this is not an area with the kinds of trees suitable for logging.

 

[Sylvia]

The Bunny Museum on Instagram: "Sad and heartbreaking to report that The Bunny Museum burnt to the ground. Open 26 years. The world's only museum about everything bunny. Guinness World Record certified—1999, 2011, 2023. Saved only a few bunny items.

16K likes, 921 comments - thebunnymuseum on January 8, 2025: "Sad and heartbreaking to report that The Bunny Museum burnt to the ground. Open 26 years. The world's only museum about everything bunny. Guinness World Record certified—1999, 2011, 2023. Saved only a few bunny items. Saved the cats...

www.instagram.com

Sad and heartbreaking to report that The Bunny Museum burnt to the ground. Open 26 years. The world's only museum about everything bunny. Guinness World Record certified—1999, 2011, 2023. Saved only a few bunny items. Saved the cats and bunnies. The museum was the last building to burn around us as Steve so valiantly hosed the building down all night long, but when the building next door went down, it spread to the museum.

 

[TOADS]

There will be hundreds of discussions as to what lead up to this point.

All that doesn’t matter since are now at that point.

The big question is after all the fires are extinguished, where do we go from here?

 

[Vagabond]

There will be hundreds of discussions as to what lead up to this point.

All that doesn’t matter since are now at that point.

The big question is after all the fires are extinguished, where do we go from here?

After the 1991 Oakland Firestorm, both Oakland and Berkeley made moves to require tree-trimming and other limits on vegetation as well as restrictions on the size of homes built to replace those that had burned down. As it turned out, many of the new houses were bigger than the old houses, and I have no idea whether the cities check to see whether there is a "defensible space" around homes in neighborhoods at high risk of a wildfire.

There needs to be regular, reliable enforcement of existing codes and ordinances. Also, much more thought needs to be given before allowing further development in high-risk areas. There should not be any massive residential construction in areas where adequate emergency services cannot or will not be supplied.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hey everybody, I have returned home as the winds in Hollywood we’re only about 20/25 mph last night versus category two hurricane in the Palisades and the helicopters were able to use the Hollywood reservoir to get the fire under control. But wow, never lived through anything where I got the order to evacuate like we did yesterday. So back at home but the winds are going until Saturday. Some businesses are closed today and the stench of fire is in the air

For those who have access to Instagram, this was a video taken from my intersection. You can see just how close it is.

That’s CVS in the video is my CVS, one block away

WeHoTimes on Instagram: "There is another devastating fire too close to home around Laurel Canyon and the Hollywood Hills. Video taken from the rooftop of the parking lot of John Reed Fitness in West Hollywood. #wehotimes #wehonews #weho #wehocity #

2,499 likes, 92 comments - weho_times on January 8, 2025: "There is another devastating fire too close to home around Laurel Canyon and the Hollywood Hills. Video taken from the rooftop of the parking lot of John Reed Fitness in West Hollywood. #wehotimes #wehonews #weho #wehocity...

www.instagram.com

Thank you for all the well wishes, I’m gonna go through them now.

 

[made_in_canada]

Glad you’re okay @AngieNikodinovLove (ANL). You’ve been in my thoughts.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Glad you’re okay @AngieNikodinovLove (ANL). You’ve been in my thoughts.

Thank you, so many of my friends and neighbors were all texting everybody last night where are you going to go? Where are you going to go? Where should we go? some headed east which I didn’t agree but most of us headed south.

 

[flyingsit]

FWIW - there is limited firefighting that can happen with a wind-driven 70+ MPH firestorm. We saw that in the December fires in Colorado that destroyed 1100 homes in a couple of hours. The winds throw burning embers blocks and blocks away, handlily crossing large streets/trunpikes/highways and setting new areas ablaze. I don't see any way it was likely to have been prevented or curtailed given the weather conditions.

Absolutely correct. And with this windspeed, aerial firefighting is also not feasible.

 

[skatfan]

Thank you for all the well wishes, I’m gonna go through them now.

Scary stuff. i'm so glad you are ok, Of course, not out of the woods yet.

 

[Oreo]

Southern California resident of several decades and previous fire survivor here. I've seen the population here triple since the 1950s, and there's still not enough housing. They keep building and there's nowhere to go except up the hillsides and the canyons. These are places where you shouldn't build! Hello! But they do.

As a kid in elementary school, we learned about how the native peoples controlled their environment with fires. There have been Santa Ana winds since time began; it's the nature of the place. Clearing underbrush these days is considered anti-environmental--there might be a gnatcatcher in there. Don't even get me started on the poor decisions and lack of doing anything from most (not all) local and state bureaucracies.

90% of all fires here are started by humans: 100-year-old power lines because the utility companies won't reinvest, arsonists, gender reveal parties, homeless encampment fires, all sorts of reasons. One friend lost his home in Malibu several years ago from some teenagers having an outside party up the canyon above and their campfire got out of control. The fire I once had to evacuate took out about 500 homes. That one was started by a Cal-Trans flagman up a state highway probably tossing out a cigarette. Because of liability and the state of California was broke at the time, they tried to blame it on some Mexican guy, who turned out was in jail in Mexico at the time. Nothing was ever done.

One of the reasons why so many homes were lost in the town where I was living was that they stopped clearing the underbrush on the hillsides, and yes, because of the gnatcatcher. I think it was just after our fire, the town introduced goats to clear the next round of brush, and sure enough, some people went crazy because they considered goats anti-environmental. What can you do?

 

[BlueRidge]

One of the reasons why so many homes were lost in the town where I was living was that they stopped clearing the underbrush on the hillsides, and yes, because of the gnatcatcher. I think it was just after our fire, the town introduced goats to clear the next round of brush, and sure enough, some people went crazy because they considered goats anti-environmental. What can you do?

One thing you can you can do is take your anti-environmental arguments to PI and back them up and not post them here.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I can't remember if this has been posted or not, but the Mayor of LA was warned by their Fire Chief last month that the $17.6 million budget cut would "severely limit" the department's capacity to prepare, train and respond to any major event such as an earthquake, wildfire, hazmat incident, etc. My heart breaks for the citizens who have lost their homes and especially the families of the 5 known fatalities.

Also, on our local news KTLA, they defunded the Los Angeles fire department by $20 million. If I remember the figure correctly may have been more. In the last several years.

 

[peibeck]

Also, on our local news KTLA, they defunded the Los Angeles fire department by $20 million. If I remember the figure correctly may have been more. In the last several years.

The money was withheld and put into a separate fund because a new city contract was being negotiated. When the contract was finalized, the city's fire budget actually increased.

 

[Karen-W]

Oh no... There is now a fire on Mt Wilson, running right up near the and at the base of many of the communication towers for 911 services & most of the major media outlets in LA. There are so many trees & brush right around all of these large towers.

ETA - the fire on Mt Wilson is part of the Eaton Fire which has ravaged Altadena. Also located there is Mt Wilson Observatory.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877445910717780062

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877445326371447248

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877442597582467518

 

[skatfan]

Southern California resident of several decades and previous fire survivor here. I've seen the population here triple since the 1950s, and there's still not enough housing. They keep building and there's nowhere to go except up the hillsides and the canyons. These are places where you shouldn't build! Hello! But they do.

This set of fires aren't really in those areas. Most of the neighborhoods have been there for decades - Malibu, Palisades, Hollywood Hills, Altadena. To not take into account a drying, hotter climate with gale force Santa Anas is ignoring one of the major drivers. Of course there needs to be better management of brush, etc. but this is as bad as blaming people living on the Florida coast for decades when the Hurricanes come.

 

[Karen-W]

I can't find the tweet I saw earlier, but here's a reference point...

The island of Manhattan covers approximately 14,000 acres. The Palisades Fire alone has burned over 17,000 acres. Imagine the entire island of Manhattan burned to the ground.

 

[TOADS]

The next big nightmare is going to be how do they dispose of all the debris? For Lahaina they created a huge burial pit. The debris from the LA fires is probably many times what was the Lahaina debris.

 

[Karen-W]

This set of fires aren't really in those areas. Most of the neighborhoods have been there for decades - Malibu, Palisades, Hollywood Hills, Altadena. To not take into account a drying, hotter climate with gale force Santa Anas is ignoring one of the major drivers. Of course there needs to be better management of brush, etc. but this is as bad as blaming people living on the Florida coast for decades when the Hurricanes come.

Yes and no. Some of the areas of have, indeed, been around for decades, but they are not located in the deep canyons or high ridges.

Home building technology & engineering is so different now than it was 30-60 years ago & people ARE building more and more in those canyons & high ridges - you can see the differences just looking at Google Maps with the topographical overlay instead of the plain street grid.

I think one of the factors why the Sunset Fire last night in Hollywood Hills did NOT get out of control was because it was located in a relatively uninhabited canyon, plus the winds being much lower. It could have gotten out of control, but any fire up there 30 years ago that got out of control would have been just as devastating then as it would be now.

Suburban creep & sprawl is very real, though, and @Oreo is right about how it is affecting the region.

 

[Karen-W]

More on the telecommunications systems located on Mt Wilson -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877448649611030770

 

[PRlady]

My college BFF has been living in the Palisades with her family for 40 years. I visited there many times.

It’s all gone, she texted me.

There’s no question that the area should have had another way out, I noticed that when visiting. There’s also no question that SoCal and indeed most of the west can’t sustain its growth, the water just isn’t there.

But dozens of municipal fire chiefs are saying that a fire like Palisades could never be handled by any municipality hydrant system. They needed air support from planes and helicopters that couldn’t fly because of the wind. And cutting an upcoming budget a month ago has nothing to do with what was available this week.

I’m heartbroken for my friend and her family. They have a small place in Sedona now holding her, her husband, her married son and DIL and their two kids who lived in Santa Monica. I don’t know what they will do next.

 

[BlueRidge]

I’m heartbroken for my friend and her family. They have a small place in Sedona now holding her, her husband, her married son and DIL and their two kids who lived in Santa Monica. I don’t know what they will do next.

This is so devastating. I'm glad they have at least someplace to go. I'm so sorry.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

The money was withheld and put into a separate fund because a new city contract was being negotiated. When the contract was finalized, the city's fire budget actually increased.

Hmmm that’s not how KTLA presented it, or CNN