Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Theatregirl1122]

Where is IAM in all this? And even skaters like Chock/Bates that train with them and had FB/S at their wedding?

They do realize how bad this looks on their part, right?

They seem to not care. Unfortunately, it's not hurting them.

 

[overedge]

It's so difficult to "watch your friend suffer" says Guillaume (from the auto-translate). I wonder if he can even imagine, or whether he cares, how much the complainant suffered. And how much they are probably suffering now, seeing Laurence go on about the "false allegations".

I guess it's too much to hope that Marie-France and Patrice will sit down with these two and help them come up with better responses than this. Because Nik's suspension is going to be brought up in every interview they do, whether they want to talk about it or not.

 

[pat c]

It's so difficult to "watch your friend suffer" says Guillaume (from the auto-translate). I wonder if he can even imagine, or whether he cares, how much the complainant suffered. And how much they are probably suffering now, seeing Laurence go on about the "false allegations".

Unfortunately it has been the norm. A study was done at Stony Mtn Inst in Manitoba and one of the observations was most of the sex offenders viewed themselves as the victim. Not the person that they assaulted. A lot of these sex offenders were or had been in a relationship and sometimes their families stuck by them even when it was beyond a reasonable doubt that these guys were guilty. Why? Because a lot of people get stuck on the sex, not that it is a crime of violence. Add in that the perp is a star of some kind and people start making excuses. It's wrong I know. But people will try and deny that they know someone who is capable of this. They don't want to face it. Sad but true.

 

[nylynnr]

And even skaters like Chock/Bates that train with them and had FB/S at their wedding?

They do realize how bad this looks on their part, right?

Serious question here. What do Chock and Bates have to do with a rape allegation against a skater who trains at their rink? Especially when the allegation stems from an incident many years ago, which took place at an entirely different location? Should they have cut Chock's friend out of her wedding? Just want to understand the reasoning here, especially when you consider Chock and Bates were married last June and Soerensen was suspended last October.

 

[Karen-W]

Serious question here. What do Chock and Bates have to do with a rape allegation against a skater who trains at their rink? Especially when the allegation stems from an incident many years ago, which took place at an entirely different location? Should they have cut Chock's friend out of her wedding? Just want to understand the reasoning here, especially when you consider Chock and Bates were married last June and Soerensen was suspended last October.

In cancel culture world, yes, Chock/Bates' responsibility lies in dropping Nik Soerensen completely. And since Lolo believes in Nik's innocence, that would mean dropping her as well since she is enabling an alleged* rapist.

* My use of the word alleged is merely because he has NOT been found guilty in a court of law and while OSIC found there was substantial evidence to support the allegations & subsequently ban him from competition, that's still not a conviction.

I know some people are extreme and believe they should have dropped Nik & Lolo as soon as the allegations were made in January 2024 - which would have required them to be excluded from Chock/Bates' wedding. Others who are less extreme are angry that there are apparently social media posts from the quartet in November/December which indicate they're still socializing privately.

 

[my little pony]

considering more people seem upset with the shibs not splitting the team event in 1945 or whenever, I would say there is no cancel culture.

 

[Karen-W]

considering more people seem upset with the shibs not splitting the team event in 1945 or whenever, I would say there is no cancel culture.

Ehhhhh... The Shibs not splitting the TE wouldn't have necessarily benefitted ChoBat, HubDon were also screwed in that situation, so opinions/views can and do overlap where fans equally dislike the Shibs and ChoBat. I don't know that "cancel culture" about the continued Soerensen friendship is the dominant strain in the general Chock/Bates hate that permeates many quarters of FS social media, but it's a definitely there.

 

[Willin]

Serious question here. What do Chock and Bates have to do with a rape allegation against a skater who trains at their rink? Especially when the allegation stems from an incident many years ago, which took place at an entirely different location? Should they have cut Chock's friend out of her wedding? Just want to understand the reasoning here, especially when you consider Chock and Bates were married last June and Soerensen was suspended last October.

It's the optics.

If you're going to publicize your wedding in this day and age like C/B did with multiple magazine features, videos, and social media galore, you should probably make sure there's no one at your wedding that could be controversial (unless they're family). And while he was suspended in October, the allegations and the details were released far earlier that year. And it's not just "who trains at your rink." Not every IAM skater was invited. Some of the teams they skated with in Canton weren't invited.

Especially in this day and age of insanely expensive weddings, the people you invite are often seen as your closest friends and your family, so to have someone that was getting absolutely ripped online after the allegations at your wedding and in your photos is not a good look. The NYT article saying there were only 90 guests for the wedding really underscores that only a small circle that was invited. I cut people out of my wedding for less (very publicly refusing to get the COVID vaccine when I had vulnerable guests) and I don't have to worry about optics of such a publicized wedding.

So it generally looks really bad. It's an example of tone tone deaf IAM and their skaters are being about this issue.

 

[PRlady]

If Chock and Bates disinvited FB/S while he was still under investigation, it would have signaled they thought he was guilty, which certainly wouldn’t have helped his case. I’d guess they discussed it a lot and decided to be loyal friends until it was adjudicated. If they’re still friends publicly now, they will be rightfully criticized for essentially forgiving or even believing a sex offender.

 

[overedge]

Or they could have invited him, but not released any of the photos/videos of the wedding with him in it. Not everything about an event has to be put online.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

considering more people seem upset with the shibs not splitting the team event in 1945 or whenever, I would say there is no cancel culture.

Justice for the skaters who were shafted by World War 2!

 

[Debbie S]

I don't recall seeing Nik in any of the published photos (either magazine or social media) of C/B's wedding. There was a pic of Laurence but he wasn't in it.

C/B haven't made any public comments either way about Nik since the allegations were made public and they didn't register a reaction to either his or Laurence's social media posts. In the FD press conference at Worlds, all 3 teams were asked about FB/C returning and C/B talked about focusing on themselves and said they were good friends with Guillaume and Laurence and supported their continuing b/c of their love for skating. About as neutral and PC as one could be in that situation. They never mentioned Nik.

Yes, it would be nice if they publicly denounced sexual assault, affirmed support for the suspension...but come on. They skate at IAM, their career for the next 9 months depends on them not making waves and staying in their coaches' good graces, and we all saw how Marie-France made a show of supporting Nik at 2024 Worlds. Staying quiet and focusing on their skating is the best they can do.

 

[marbri]

If Chock and Bates disinvited FB/S while he was still under investigation, it would have signaled they thought he was guilty, which certainly wouldn’t have helped his case. I’d guess they discussed it a lot and decided to be loyal friends until it was adjudicated. If they’re still friends publicly now, they will be rightfully criticized for essentially forgiving or even believing a sex offender.

Is it okay if they are friends privately?

They are still friends. There are photos of them together post Nik's suspension but posted by someone else, not them.
I hate that Chock and Bates are 3 times World Champions but I don't fault them at all for still being friends with their friends.

 

[overedge]

In the FD press conference at Worlds, all 3 teams were asked about FB/C returning and C/B talked about focusing on themselves and said they were good friends with Guillaume and Laurence and supported their continuing b/c of their love for skating. About as neutral and PC as one could be in that situation. They never mentioned Nik.

I agree that they were in a tough situation in answering that question, but they didn't have to say they were good friends with Guillaume and Laurence. The part about the love of skating would have been enough.

Yes, it would be nice if they publicly denounced sexual assault, affirmed support for the suspension...but come on. They skate at IAM, their career for the next 9 months depends on them not making waves and staying in their coaches' good graces, and we all saw how Marie-France made a show of supporting Nik at 2024 Worlds. Staying quiet and focusing on their skating is the best they can do.

Do you mean C/B or FB/C? Although I guess this is true for both of them.

 

[skatfan]

I agree that they were in a tough situation in answering that question, but they didn't have to say they were good friends with Guillaume and Laurence. The part about the love of skating would have been enough.

Well, I do not judge folks for being friends. I do hope they know that Nik is problematic.

The whole IAM stance is troubling given multiple issues that have come up. Chock and Bates seem like they will continue to be involved in skating upon retirement (if she's going to expand costume design), so they will not burn bridges there.

Guillaume and LoLo's statements are awful. Go ahead and think this, but keep your mouth shut. You are defying your own governing body by doing this.

 

[Debbie S]

Do you mean C/B or FB/C? Although I guess this is true for both of them.

C/B

 

[nylynnr]

I cut people out of my wedding for less (very publicly refusing to get the COVID vaccine when I had vulnerable guests) and I don't have to worry about optics of such a publicized wedding.

Well, some people have the ability to cut people out of their lives; others, maybe Chock and Bates, have a bit harder time, I guess.

 

[Rukia]

the term "cancel culture" is overused and often meaningless but honestly people just need to learn to hate freely. You don't need a reason to dislike skaters be free and just admit you don't like them because you don't like them it's fine

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Chock and Bates have been around skating their entire lives. They know that abuse is widespread, and they know the power dynamics are wildly skewed towards the perpetrator and against the victim. They've seen the terrible consequences of staying quiet in their own friend group before. They must also know that as national and world champions and Olympic medalists, their reaction to high profile allegations in their sport carries weight. Imagine being an abused skater and seeing not only top coaches but your highest ranking peers show support and friendship to a man officially banned from skating for sexual assault. Absolutely chilling.

If you aren't willing to burn a bridge or two over rape, what will you stand for?

 

[Wyliefan]

It's possible Chock and Bates believe him. Which would be wildly gullible of them considering that enough evidence was found to ban him, but people in general are pretty good at finding reasons to believe what they want to believe.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Is it okay if they are friends privately?

They are still friends. There are photos of them together post Nik's suspension but posted by someone else, not them.
I hate that Chock and Bates are 3 times World Champions but I don't fault them at all for still being friends with their friends.

Personally, I don’t want to be friends with rapists. That’s not “cancel culture.” That’s “the consequences of his actions.”

Are they ALLOWED to still be friends with him? Sure. People are allowed to do a lot of stupid things. But I don’t have to respect them for it.

 

[overedge]

Well, I do not judge folks for being friends. I do hope they know that Nik is problematic.

The whole IAM stance is troubling given multiple issues that have come up. Chock and Bates seem like they will continue to be involved in skating upon retirement (if she's going to expand costume design), so they will not burn bridges there.

Guillaume and LoLo's statements are awful. Go ahead and think this, but keep your mouth shut. You are defying your own governing body by doing this.

They can be friends, but they don't have to point out in public that they are friends.

 

[Karen-W]

We don't really know the circumstances of what their private relationship currently is. They may feel like Lolo is deluding herself and yet not want to cut ties because they think eventually Lolo will see Nik for who he is and then she'll need a support system as she figures out how to deal with the truth. Or they may not be socializing with them at all save for both showing up at the same party and mostly steering clear of Nik, or being ambushed on a dinner date. Or they may have remained close to both of them. None of the four have commented, so we really don't know. Maybe we'll gain some more insight whenever the supposed Netflix IAM docu-series comes out next winter. Until then...

the term "cancel culture" is overused and often meaningless but honestly people just need to learn to hate freely. You don't need a reason to dislike skaters be free and just admit you don't like them because you don't like them it's fine

Exactly. There's not necessarily any rhyme or reason for why many of us become fans of different skaters/teams/musical artists/etc. We shouldn't have to justify or explain why we like or dislike someone, but cancel culture is an extension of virtue signaling and some people are highly susceptible to peer pressure, groupthink and conforming to societal expectations. It's always been a part of life - who among us hasn't witnessed or been subject to the school/church/local social circle ostracizing someone - the internet has amplified this phenomenon.

 

[jmtfti]

I guess it's too much to hope that Marie-France and Patrice will sit down with these two and help them come up with better responses than this. Because Nik's suspension is going to be brought up in every interview they do, whether they want to talk about it or not.

I confess, based on what we've seen from this camp in the past year, that it seems entirely possible to me that Marie-France and Patrice think Laurence and Guillaume's responses are good ones.

 

[vireo]

I agree that they were in a tough situation in answering that question, but they didn't have to say they were good friends with Guillaume and Laurence.

Why shouldn't someone say they are friends with Guillaume and Laurence? Guillaume and Laurence haven't been accused of or banned for wrongdoing.

 

[marbri]

Personally, I don’t want to be friends with rapists. That’s not “cancel culture.” That’s “the consequences of his actions.”

Are they ALLOWED to still be friends with him? Sure. People are allowed to do a lot of stupid things. But I don’t have to respect them for it.

I was asking a specific poster who mentioned the word publicly. So I asked if they felt the same if they were privately still friends because I was interested in what that particular person thought.
That was the context of my post.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I was asking a specific poster who mentioned the word publicly. So I asked if they felt the same if they were privately still friends because I was interested in what that particular person thought.
That was the context of my post.

I understood the context of your post, but it's a message board. If you post something, that implies others can comment.

 

[PRlady]

I was asking a specific poster who mentioned the word publicly. So I asked if they felt the same if they were privately still friends because I was interested in what that particular person thought.
That was the context of my post.

That was me. IMO it’s hypocritical to avoid someone in public but claim to be their friends in private, although anyone in the public eye might forgive the strategy.

I’ve never had to dump a friend for criminal behavior so don’t know how I’d respond. And it would depend on the crime. Given the way things are, I can envision friends in both the U.S. and Israel arrested for political reasons, obviously I’d hope I would stand by them and help. But a rapist? Maybe I’d believe him at first if it was denied. But after conviction by a body like OSIC or the courts - nope.

 

[nlloyd]

It's sad to see that the sort of support John Coughlin received from figure skaters right until the end, is likely still in place here. It seems that only a handful have the ability to stand up against the accused in these situations; most skaters support them.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

That was me. IMO it’s hypocritical to avoid someone in public but claim to be their friends in private, although anyone in the public eye might forgive the strategy.

I’ve never had to dump a friend for criminal behavior so don’t know how I’d respond. And it would depend on the crime. Given the way things are, I can envision friends in both the U.S. and Israel arrested for political reasons, obviously I’d hope I would stand by them and help. But a rapist? Maybe I’d believe him at first if it was denied. But after conviction by a body like OSIC or the courts - nope.

I've had to dump someone for criminal behaviour, but so did all of my extended friend group, so that was a heck of a lot easier. After it all went down, I realized how we were all manipulated and charmed by said person (in very different ways). But also people who do bad things can also do really good things and be genuinely good friends to other people, so the contradictions can be very hard for people to come to terms with.