Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[kwanfan1818]

Tying these young men's immigration status to marriage, rather than to a special skills visa, is a way for the families to retain control of their investment. Leave the partnership? Leave the country. If I can't have you, no one else can.

Except there's no legal way to prevent a divorce/annulment or break-up of the team. Read what Spirodonov said: he had offers from all over the place once he and McNamara split, and another partner's parents could have paid to get his visa status changed. He might have had to go the standard green card route after that, but if he hadn't been suspended by SafeSport, he could have stayed in the US partnering with a string of women until he got a green card the standard way.

 

[Karen-W]

Except there's no legal way to prevent a divorce/annulment or break-up of the team. Read what Spirodonov said: he had offers from all over the place once he and McNamara split, and another partner's parents could have paid to get his visa status changed. He might have had to go the standard green card route after that, but if he hadn't been suspended by SafeSport, he could have stayed in the US partnering with a string of women until he got a green card the standard way.

Sure, but would he have necessarily known or realized that was the case? As @Private Citizen pointed out yesterday, there may have been a contractual agreement where he would be on the hook for all of the living expenses and the release money paid if the partnership ended before a certain point. Who knew what sort of "advice" or information he was hearing from people in his circle - and would he have even been willing to seek advice from someone outside that circle who didn't know about the secret marriage?

 

[her grace]

Sure, but would he have necessarily known or realized that was the case? As @Private Citizen pointed out yesterday, there may have been a contractual agreement where he would be on the hook for all of the living expenses and the release money paid if the partnership ended before a certain point. Who knew what sort of "advice" or information he was hearing from people in his circle - and would he have even been willing to seek advice from someone outside that circle who didn't know about the secret marriage?

Yeah, but you can’t get blood from a stone. As long as he doesn’t have income, the girl’s parents would be wasting their time suing to enforce the contract. Plus in this case, I doubt they’d want all the marriage details coming out in sworn testimony.

I do understand your point that he may not have known that.

 

[canbelto]

Omg I just threaded the needle. Didn't Dalilah Sappenfield also work at WASA? A lot of problematic ppl in one rink.

 

[kwanfan1818]

As @Private Citizen pointed out yesterday, there may have been a contractual agreement where he would be on the hook for all of the living expenses and the release money paid if the partnership ended before a certain point.

Which is a separate issue from marriage. There could just as easily be a contract without them being married or tied to pre-nup.

Another complication that a married under 18, when the person is still a minor, but is age-eligible for marriage, is that they can drive home alone together from the rink and be in the same space together without supervision.

People have gotten married for less.

I think it's crazy to support a marriage for young people who've known each other for a short period of time and who haven't been competing for at least a season. But I'm not going to invest over a $1 million dollars over the lifetime of my kid's hobby.

 

[BrightSkates]

Omg I just threaded the needle. Didn't Dalilah Sappenfield also work at WASA? A lot of problematic ppl in one rink.

Yes and there was a period of time when Elena and Dalilah were coaching on the same pairs/dance sessions before the pandemic.

 

[Hanna]

Ha, wrong thread

 

[jackson]

It wasn't opinion. It was stated as "what we know" and most of it was incorrect.

.

 

[Alilou]

Agree to disagree!

This is the section of @once_upon's post that @Karen-W bolded:
What we know - 1. SafeSport acted on this situation quickly. 2. SafeSport rarely acts so swiftly. 3. They had been married for a short time and it was kept secret. 4. They abruptly, and i guess surprising to many here a partnership ended prior to a big competition (I seemed to remember big discussions). 4. There have been similar secret marriages within the camp.

It was not stated as opinion, it was stated as "what we know" and most of it was wrong.

The rest of @once_upon's comment may have been opinion, but @Karen-W wasn't addressing that.

 

[Hanna]

And wrong thread again Sorry

 

[Prancer]

Can we not post rumors, please?

 

[On My Own]

Can we not post rumors, please?

You need to remove everyone who quoted the person in question, then, like @Lara111

 

[sk8nlizard]

Except there's no legal way to prevent a divorce/annulment or break-up of the team. Read what Spirodonov said: he had offers from all over the place once he and McNamara split, and another partner's parents could have paid to get his visa status changed. He might have had to go the standard green card route after that, but if he hadn't been suspended by SafeSport, he could have stayed in the US partnering with a string of women until he got a green card the standard way.

I’m confused…how does Spirodonov come into this? I didn’t see anything about him in the last 10 or so pages?

 

[jackson]

This is the section of @once_upon's post that @Karen-W bolded:
What we know - 1. SafeSport acted on this situation quickly. 2. SafeSport rarely acts so swiftly. 3. They had been married for a short time and it was kept secret. 4. They abruptly, and i guess surprising to many here a partnership ended prior to a big competition (I seemed to remember big discussions). 4. There have been similar secret marriages within the camp.

It was not stated as opinion, it was stated as "what we know" and most of it was wrong.

The rest of @once_upon's comment may have been opinion, but @Karen-W wasn't addressing that.

Good point, Yes, now I see.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I’m confused…how does Spirodonov come into this? I didn’t see anything about him in the last 10 or so pages?

From Morgan Matthews' newsletter, which was discussed in other threads:
https://www.ice-dance.com/site/how-to-find-an-ice-dance-partner-then-and-now/

“Of course being a male in ice dance, you’re put in an advantageous position when looking for a partner. Before I teamed up with Lorraine, not a lot of people really knew me, but being a boy in this sport, you’re in high demand and will always get offers from girls and their coaches.”

According to Anton, after his split from Lorraine McNamara prior to the 2023-24 season.

“This time around, it was exceptionally simple and fast. Having took part in the Grand Prix circuit and competing/medaling at other international events, you’re quite a bit more in the spotlight. I’ve received an overwhelming amount of offers, many of them were very interesting.”

 

[sk8nlizard]

From Morgan Matthews' newsletter, which was discussed in other threads:
https://www.ice-dance.com/site/how-to-find-an-ice-dance-partner-then-and-now/

Thanks so much! I appreciate it.

 

[once_upon]

This is the section of @once_upon's post that @Karen-W bolded:
What we know - 1. SafeSport acted on this situation quickly. 2. SafeSport rarely acts so swiftly. 3. They had been married for a short time and it was kept secret. 4. They abruptly, and i guess surprising to many here a partnership ended prior to a big competition (I seemed to remember big discussions). 4. There have been similar secret marriages within the camp.

It was not stated as opinion, it was stated as "what we know" and most of it was wrong.

The rest of @once_upon's comment may have been opinion, but @Karen-W wasn't addressing that.

I should have said what * I know * from reading the gossip in this thread. It's the things I picked up from this.

If no one knows my opinions on sexual abuse in any setting, then you all haven't read anything

In fact just last week when I said call it what it is - I got raked over coals again.

Have fun - throw darts - Halloween is coming, you all can find voodoo dolls..

 

[Rukia]

Yes and there was a period of time when Elena and Dalilah were coaching on the same pairs/dance sessions before the pandemic.

lol ok well this does it for me because anything dalilah touches is cursed

 

[Alilou]

I should have said what * I know * from reading the gossip in this thread. It's the things I picked up from this.

If no one knows my opinions on sexual abuse in any setting, then you all haven't read anything

In fact just last week when I said call it what it is - I got raked over coals again.

Have fun - throw darts - Halloween is coming, you all can find voodoo dolls..

Sorry @once_upon I do think you've been misinterpreted, but you must know how easily that can happen, and how important it is to say exactly what we mean.
FWIW I'm fairly sure we would have exactly aligning opinions about SA
Also FWIW I do think @Karen-W was her usual um, shall we say, abrasive self at the same time that I stand by her point. And FGS @Karen-W don't you jump on me now

 

[ice coverage]

Except there's no legal way to prevent a divorce/annulment or break-up of the team. Read what Spirodonov said: he had offers from all over the place once he and McNamara split, and another partner's parents could have paid to get his visa status changed. He might have had to go the standard green card route after that, but if he hadn't been suspended by SafeSport, he could have stayed in the US partnering with a string of women until he got a green card the standard way.

I’m confused…how does Spirodonov come into this? I didn’t see anything about him in the last 10 or so pages?

I feel the need to emphasize that Spirodonov was born in the U.S., and never was suspended by SafeSport.

Although no one in the thread has said otherwise exactly (AFAIK), a lot of vague "his" and "he" pronouns are being thrown around with an unfortunate lack of clarity.

 

[Kaz7714]

Don't you EVER tell a victim of past sexual assault that it's all in their head and they imagined it all wrong.

Deleted, because I quoted the wrong person, actually wanted to back up bladesofglory.

 

[Kaz7714]

That is science whether you want to believe it or not.

Look I am a scientist, but I am also an abuse victim. While I might be hazy about a lot of things because the brain tries indeed it's best to forget so you can go on living , certain things are crystal clear in my head.
My trauma responses are certainly real. My life being wrecked irredeemable is certainly real.
The incredibly unfeeling, accusatory and patronizing way in which I was treated when I finally made my abuse public is also real. And the amount of times I was told that nobody could possibly remember and that these were probably wrong memories were also real.
And I was very lucky that I could not only prove certain things but also that other victims of the same perpetrator came forward.
So science is brilliant but when it comes to the brain it's also still not anywhere near perfect There is loads which is being researched and which is still unknown.
Your blanket statement is incredibly unhelpful and deeply disrespectful to survivors of abuse.

 

[Rob]

Here are some of the basic questions that immigration asks: https://www.ashoorilaw.com/blog/marriage-interview-questions/

As you can see, if you actually know each other and you live in the same place, it's not that hard to answer most of them correctly. None of them are about anyone's sex life.

Of course, immigration can ask OTHER questions. I know one couple who were asked about each other's toothbrushes--what color and how were they stored. I know the answer to one of those questions .

At our immigration meeting for my husband’s 2 year provisional green card after our marriage, we were required to bring photos of different things we did together - vacations, holidays etc. They asked about joint bank accounts, leases, property ownership, our jobs, the photos we brought, things that would prompt conversation to see if we knew each other well, really went on these vacations etc. it lasted less than 30 mins and they did not interview us separately. They kept the photos to make sure they had pictures of me (some people bring a different person to the final interview 2 years later!). They did not ask about toothbrushes because they had no means to verify the response because they were not coming to our house (that was in the 80s movie “Green Card”). After 2 years, we got a letter asking us to send in current evidence of our joint accounts, leases etc. Then, we got a letter in the mail telling him no meeting was necessary and he could go to the office to get his permanent green card. If we had unraveled all the joint accounts and had no evidence of cohabitation, they would have requested a meeting or possibly a home visit, but they decided we were real. I’m sure they would look at Social Media these days.

 

[PRlady]

Our problem was that as a mature couple we own separate property. Thus we put each other on our credit cards, utility bills, car insurance and the US bank account (I didn’t want to be on the Israeli bank account, their banks are whack.) Apparently it was enough.

 

[allezfred]

We didn't get interviewed for our civil partnership back in 2011. By the time we got married in 2016, separate interviews for marriage between EU and non-EU spouses had become compulsory. Except we didn't find out until a couple of days before the ceremony. The registrar's error so they slotted us in early morning before the office opened. The one question we got asked that I remember was the colour of our front door.

 

[Prancer]

The fake married people I know are all students, so they have no money to speak of and don't typically travel. They live together, often with the citizen's parents in some form (and yes, the parents know what is going on). There is usually some level of camaraderie between the couple, as it wouldn't work at all otherwise, so they often do spend time together, usually just hanging around the house, when they aren't busy, as they nearly always are.

This is all also true of most of the genuinely married young students I know, except that babies are often (but definitely not always) part of that scenario. The genuinely married seem to have, not surprisingly, more marital and in-law problems, especially if there are babies involved. But on the surface, at least, there isn't a whole lot of obvious difference between the couples. OTOH, I've never interviewed any of them, just listened to their woes.

 

[barbk]

Marriage was often a business arrangement for centuries, and still is in many places. While that doesn't comport with my belief on marriage, that doesn't make it wrong. What is wrong is coercion. The current situation seems squiky based on the timing and the number of marriages right after the woman turns 18, but I'm not seeing it as intrinsically immigration or other kinds of fraud. If evidence of coercion emerges, that's a different story.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Holy moly, I forgot to click on this thread for the past four days and I’m like nine pages behind, I just don’t have the wherewithal

 

[Prancer]

The current situation seems squiky based on the timing and the number of marriages right after the woman turns 18, but I'm not seeing it as intrinsically immigration or other kinds of fraud.

It could just be that one couple did it and that inspired the rest to follow suit (which happens), but I am willing to put a whole lot of money down on immigration fraud.

 

[alice73]

Sorry, wrong entry