Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Cant Skate]

Oddly, the article states that there was to be a hearing on Feb 8 but there's no update on it, that I can find.

I wasn't able to find any update after the Feb 8 hearing either but I did find the case listed on a March 25 court docket in NL Supreme Court.

 

[once_upon]

Speaking of evidence, for those who witness what appears to be unacceptable behavior in any setting (goddess forbid) but you're reluctant to insert yourself at that time, if you can describe what you saw/heard on your phone with the date, time, and, location during or immediately after it occurred, you'll help the prosecution build a future case. Whether you choose to report it or not is your decision. But your record will help establish that not only were the predator and prey in the same place at the same time but that you were also there to observe. Crafting a prosecution is like solving a Rubik's cube. The more tiles they have to piece together, the stronger the case. FWIW

One should also remember, in many jurisdictions every single one of us is a mandated reporter.

I've heard too many people opt out of reporting by using the following excuses

• I'm not sure what I saw is really abuse or inappropriate interactions
• I'm not a police officer, or social worker, or coach, I'll let the authorities do it
• maybe their guardian is aware and they approved those interactions

Every single one of us is a reporter - if not by law, by being a member of society.

 

[Sylvia]

Marie-Christine Noël has written 2 articles related to Montreal Worlds in Le Journal de Montréal (March 16) - this one's headline translates to "World Figure Skating Championships: the sad behind the scenes": https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2...patinage-artistique-le-triste-envers-du-decor
Her post: https://twitter.com/MarieC_Noel/status/1769037011489358099 ("It is essential to continue to talk about slippages in the sports world, to highlight the decisions and actions taken by organizations, if we truly want things to change.")

Machine translated excerpts:

This is the first time in four years that our journalist, who co-directed the documentary Pression ["Pressure" in 2021 - GSD thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/pression-pressure-documentary-featuring-rochette-phaneuf-dubé-sawyer-séguin-bilodeau-ruest.108282/] and wrote the book A Medal at All Prices, on slip-ups in the world of figure skating, managed to have a telephone interview with Patinage Québec. The questions, however, were to concern only the Worlds.
However, for two years, athletes and coaches who are members of Skate Canada and Patinage Québec have been in the news for scandals and allegations: investigation opened at the Office of the Commissioner for Integrity in Sport for an alleged sexual assault, methods of controversial training of an elite coach denounced and presence of members of organizations during a trial for sexual assault in order to support a former coach found guilty.
Asked about slippages in their environment, the federations prefer to limit their answers and refer to the code of ethics and professional conduct.

At the Worlds, the couple Deanna Stellato Dudek and Maxime Deschamps are among the favorites of the competition. The duo is trained by Josée Picard, whose old training methods have been denounced in recent years.
Inappropriate comments on the weight and figure of skaters, criticism, hasty returns to the ice after major injuries, psychological influence and toxic climate are just a few examples.
Ms. Picard left her position on the board of directors of Patinage Québec in 2022 for “personal reasons”, a week after the Journal’s revelations.
No formal complaint has been filed against Ms. Picard, which allows her to continue training athletes. Patinage Québec did not want to confirm whether an investigation had been opened.
“The people who are at the World Championships are people who respect the Code of Ethics. It's a national program. It is Skate Canada which is responsible for this aspect,” explains Ms. [Any-Claude] Dion [general director of Patinage Québec], recalling that any allegation or misconduct is not managed by senior management, but by an independent committee and that if the organization is not not informed, she “cannot act on the denunciation aspect”.
Ms. Picard refused the Journal's interview request.

Deanna's reply to the journalist's question re. Picard:

“Josée, in one year, allowed us to go from a fairly good team to a team that has the potential to get on a podium at the Worlds. I have an enjoyable experience and I think for someone of my age [40] and intelligence level, she is the perfect coach for me.”

I've put the second article in the Richard Gauthier thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...harassment-1981-85.107639/page-3#post-6567086

 

[Theatregirl1122]

One should also remember, in many jurisdictions every single one of us is a mandated reporter.

I've heard too many people opt out of reporting by using the following excuses

• I'm not sure what I saw is really abuse or inappropriate interactions
• I'm not a police officer, or social worker, or coach, I'll let the authorities do it
• maybe their guardian is aware and they approved those interactions

Every single one of us is a reporter - if not by law, by being a member of society.

For those of us who are mandated reporters, we are directed that we are never to do our own research or try to confirm allegations. If something feels wrong, it should be reported and then the proper authorities will make the determination themselves. It's important to understand that you aren't expected to be sure or to investigate before you report. If you suspect abuse, report.

 

[Sylvia]

Summary by Anything GOEs of the "safe sport" topic brought up during the ISU's Worlds press conference today:

On Nikolaj Sørensen competing: Kim says that the ISU are aware of the allegations and investigation but says it was Skate Canada's choice to enter him to compete at Worlds. Says "Any kind of unacceptable behaviour including abuse and harassment should not be allowed."

He is not personally aware of any complaints from other skaters about this. "It's an important issue and we'll continue to address it."

On the ISU's role in protecting athletes: Kim says they have different channels where mistreatment can be reported including a full-time safeguarding officer, an Ombudsperson, an ISU Rep, as well as the athlete commission members.

ETA: On a related note, I heard that the ISU Athlete Commission reps (Evan Bates & Eric Radford) will host, for the first time, an Athletes Forum meeting tomorrow night and I hope it's decently attended.

 

[danafan]

Brennan tweeted this earlier:

x.com

x.com

In mixed zone, Sorensen said when my story broke, “it was emotionally really tough” so he withdrew from nationals. So why is he here now? “The story is a little further behind us” although the investigation is ongoing and more news broke this week. With that, he was whisked away.

Was there more news this week? I don't remember hearing anything.

 

[jmtfti]

Possibly this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...xual-assault-world-championships/73055621007/

 

[Karen-W]

Possibly this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...xual-assault-world-championships/73055621007/

Well, the only reason there would have been any "news" this week is because of what Nik himself said if that's what he is referring to. And, frankly, he is just digging himself an even bigger hole for his a$$.

 

[barbk]

For those of us who are mandated reporters, we are directed that we are never to do our own research or try to confirm allegations. If something feels wrong, it should be reported and then the proper authorities will make the determination themselves. It's important to understand that you aren't expected to be sure or to investigate before you report. If you suspect abuse, report.

We were trained that if a situation was reported or observed, we had a mandate to report whether it felt true or not.

The harder part is that once the report is made, we have to let it go and understand that (unless we are interviewed) there will be no further communication to tell us how the investigation is proceeding.

 

[kosjenka]

I have more and more respect for Gleb Smolkin now for taking over the role of communication officer of the team in tense circumstances, connected with his mother-in-law
At the most important competition of their lives.
You would think that in the months that have passed since this story has come out they would come up with 5 coherent sentences to answer obvious questions.
Something along the line:
“I am aware of the horrific allegations brought against me. I am here to say that I am innocent of all of the allegations and am fully cooperating with the governing body conducting the investigation. This is incredibly sensitive and an important process that mandates that while investigation is ongoing, there are no additional comments and I will not be speaking about any of the details until I am allowed to. “

 

[platniumangel]

Did anyone catch the commentary on USA's coverage of the FD at Worlds? I heard the investigation into Sorensen was discussed. Wondering if there is a video anywhere?

 

[Sparks]

Yes. Terry Gannon spoke about it

 

[Karen-W]

Yes. Terry Gannon spoke about it

What did he say?

 

[Sylvia]

What did he say?

Gannon just recapped everything that we know already about the situation.

 

[Desperado]

Gannon just recapped everything that we know already about the situation.

Low bar, but that’s still better than what the ISU (Mark gushing) and Radio-Canada commentators did (mumbling about troubles and interviewing them with marked compassion).

 

[Aceon6]

Terry is a good reporter at heart. He’s done similar for golfers in trouble

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

After watching pairs and dance live this weekend and realizing just how international those two disciplines are, I've come to the conclusion that the ISU needs some kind an international SafeSport so that jurisdictional issues don't come up when it comes to abuse/SA cases involving skaters/teams/coaches from different countries/federations.

 

[AYS]

Low bar, but that’s still better than what the ISU (Mark gushing) and Radio-Canada commentators did (mumbling about troubles and interviewing them with marked compassion).

I generally love Mark as a commentator, and he comes across as an extremely empathetic person, which is a I trait I value pretty highly, but his handling of the FB/S situation was really bad. Terry is the consummate professional and not surprised at better handling, but I'd also assume there was some production guidance ahead of the broadcasts on the appropriate way to handle this, you'd hope anyway.

Thread drift, but: I like Terry for skating (and golf) but I've gotten really spoiled being able to watch commercial-free without Tara and Johnny with the world feeds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I generally love Mark as a commentator, and he comes across as an extremely empathetic person, which is a I trait I value pretty highly, but his handling of the FB/S situation was really bad. Terry is the consummate professional and not surprised at better handling, but I'd also assume there was some production guidance ahead of the broadcasts on the appropriate way to handle this, you'd hope anyway.

Thread drift, but: I like Terry for skating (and gold) but I've gotten really spoiled being able to watch commercial-free without Tara and Johnny with the world feeds.

I haven’t watched The Tara Lipinski/Johnny/Terry broadcast you can you DM me and let me know how he handled it?

 

[AYS]

I haven’t watched The Tara Lipinski/Johnny/Terry broadcast you can you DM me and let me know how he handled it?

I didn't watch it that broadcast, just going by what Sylvia and others discussed just above, that he gave a recap of the situation - as opposed to Mark, whom I did watch, who just expressed a lot of sympathy toward FB/S (esp. Laurence) for "what they'd been going through".

 

[Yuri]

I haven’t watched The Tara Lipinski/Johnny/Terry broadcast you can you DM me and let me know how he handled it?

I switched over from Peacock to USA Network just to see how Terry Gannon & Crew would handle the situation, given that USA didn't cover the Rhythm Dance so it was their first opportunity. Terry narrated perhaps a 90-120 second piece during the 3rd group dance warmups discussing the basics: the anonymous rape accusations for an event around 12 years ago, their withdrawals from Canadian Nationals, re-appearances at 4CCs and Worlds, and mentions that the investigation remains ongoing. Terry then read off brief statements from SkateCanada (met qualifications criteria) and the ISU (SkateCanada sent them and presumption of innocence, I think?) as to why they could still compete despite the rape allegations. As it appeared to be a canned segment, there was no commentary from Johnny W. or Ben A. Of course, they skated first in the 3rd warm-up group, so some of Terry's comments may have carried over to their taking the ice.

 

[tony]

Big difference here is that Terry 100% was given a script to read from by NBC, and he followed it. This happens with the stories in skating; I remember his speech at Nationals about John Coughlin and there were graphics already prepared-- meaning this clearly isn't him speaking off-the-cuff.

It's very obvious when it comes to the ISU that the commentators are basically just told to talk, with little guidance as far as what should/can be said. There's that bitch from Canada, after all, even if it was on hot mic.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Is that always true, though? I know that they have to have stories vetted, and what’s presented is the approved (sometimes by 300 lawyers) version, but it may be something they requested to do.

 

[made_in_canada]

It's very obvious when it comes to the ISU that the commentators are basically just told to talk, with little guidance as far as what should/can be said. There's that bitch from Canada, after all, even if it was on hot mic.

True, but I find it hard to believe that someone like Mark who comes across as well prepared hasn’t at least given some thought about how to approach the situation. It didn’t just come out of nowhere.

ETA: I don’t think anything he said would have made everyone happy. Rape/sexual assault is an emotionally charged issue for a lot of people for a lot of good reasons, and it’s hard to be objective. But downplaying and being sympathetic to a credibly accused rapist is going to get you some criticism. Not that I expect the ISU cares.

 

[Trillian]

True, but I find it hard to believe that someone like Mark who comes across as well prepared hasn’t at least given some thought about how to approach the situation. It didn’t just come out of nowhere.

I love Mark as a commentator, but I do wonder how much he keeps his head buried in the sand when it comes to more sensitive topics. Like in the context of the last couple of years, did he need to mention - multiple times - how impressive Julia Sebestyen’s triple lutz was?

 

[angi]

It makes sense that Mark was asked to avoid mentioning the situation, and I understand why considering I would assume around 95% of the attendees at worlds and the audience at home never heard of the allegations.
It would have been smarter to acknowledge the elephant in the room IMO, simply mention it and move on to talk about the skating.
Having said that, nothing that Mark would have said would have made the skating mob happy, this is a situation where unless he would have eviscerated him in his commentary (which makes no sense given the platform in question) people would still think he wasn't saying enough.

 

[Karen-W]

I love Mark as a commentator, but I do wonder how much he keeps his head buried in the sand when it comes to more sensitive topics. Like in the context of the last couple of years, did he need to mention - multiple times - how impressive Julia Sebestyen’s triple lutz was?

Yes to this. There was a reel he shared on his IG story in mid-November about Israel's response to Oct 7th that was clearly Hamas/Palestinian propaganda. I DMed him and pointed out that, just in reading the comments on the original post, it seemed to be controversial and made him look ill-informed and he might consider removing the story from his own IG, which he then did. I was left with the impression that he approaches everyone with the assumption and belief in their inherent goodness. So, I could see this being a situation where IAM gave him a message of support/belief in Nik's innocence and how hard this has been on the team, etc and he just took that at face value instead of pausing to consider any other angles. Then when he most definitely got called out by those listening to his commentary who are quite aware of all those angles, he changed course and just didn't discuss it during the FD. But the ISU should have given him better guidance on how to address the situation on air before the event ever started.

 

[morqet]

I love Mark as a commentator, but I do wonder how much he keeps his head buried in the sand when it comes to more sensitive topics. Like in the context of the last couple of years, did he need to mention - multiple times - how impressive Julia Sebestyen’s triple lutz was?

OK, I usually feel I'm pretty in the loop, but I have no idea why Julia Sebestyen shouldn't be talked about.

Mark was way too gushing in the RD, but had toned it down a lot for the FD - presumably as a result of the vocal feedback he was getting on twitter. I do wonder how much guidance he got from the ISU on how to handle the situation, or how much broadcast training he's had at all about what you should & shouldn't say about ongoing legal issues. (Maybe my expectations for all sports coverage is too low after 3+ years of hearing tennis commentators praising Alexander Zverev for not being distracted by two separate serious allegations of domestic abuse. At this point, just neutral coverage of these issues feels like a win)

 

[Vagabond]

OK, I usually feel I'm pretty in the loop, but I have no idea why Julia Sebestyen shouldn't be talked about.

Mark was way too gushing in the RD, but had toned it down a lot for the FD - presumably as a result of the vocal feedback he was getting on twitter. I do wonder how much guidance he got from the ISU on how to handle the situation, or how much broadcast training he's had at all about what you should & shouldn't say about ongoing legal issues. (Maybe my expectations for all sports coverage is too low after 3+ years of hearing tennis commentators praising Alexander Zverev for not being distracted by two separate serious allegations of domestic abuse. At this point, just neutral coverage of these issues feels like a win)

You can find the answer by following these links. (@Sylvia included machine translations quotations that you should read for yourself.)

April 26, 2023 article:

Balhé a műkorcsolyában: gyanús alakok miatt kihívták a rendőrséget egy edzésre

Galambos Rita edző feljelentést tett, mert sokkot kapott az általa verőlegényeknek nevezett férfiaktól. Sebestyén Júliát sejti a történtek mögött, aki egyelőre csak annyit mondott a Telexnek, hogy van egy másik feljelentés is.

telex.hu

Machine translated excerpt from the beginning:

March 31 24.hu interview article:

Kósa Lajos: Ha jönnének, visszafogadnánk a Liu testvéreket | 24.hu

Miért képviselték többségében orosz vagy bő egy éve még orosz állampolgárok Magyarországot a junior és felnőtt műkorcsolya-világversenyeken? Miért nem vizsgáltatta ki a sportági ikon Sebestyén Júlia m

24.hu

Machine translated excerpt from the end of the April 26 article:


ETA:

I decided to start a new thread instead of bumping up the Sept. 2022 one that focused on Vivien Papp (adding the link here for background info & context):

Vivien Papp's decision to split from the Hungarian federation

Copying out Vivien Papp's multi-part Instagram post today (Sept. 25, 2022); she posted in Hungarian too - this is the version in English: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ci7T3sPApP9/ Her ISU bio: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00110465.htm Dear Friends, Although I am only 14 years old, a huge...

www.fsuniverse.net

"Media reports that disciplinary proceedings have now begun against Júlia Sebestyén for the accusations of abuse towards her students and her favouritism of naturalised skaters." https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1654210908535627776
May 4 article:

Megszólalt a magyar korcsolyázó, lelki terrorban tartották

Birtokunkba jutott a levél, fegyelmi eljárás indult a bántalmazó edzővel szemben.

index.hu

Machine translated excerpt from the last section:

In Berlin, Index managed to catch up with 19-year-old József Berei Mózes, who was one of the competitors who were forced out of the national team because of naturalized Russians. Berei used to compete in Austrian colors, and later joined the Hungarian national team.

Berei shared his thoughts on the fact that the sports director was fired and disciplinary proceedings were initiated against the coach.
The young skater said: he came home to Hungary full of hopes, but while he was preparing at home, he suffered a lot of disappointment and abuse. In the last one year, it was made abroad again, but according to his claim, the hatred reached there as well. He also thought about competing in Austrian colors again, but with the dismissal of the sports director and the initiation of disciplinary proceedings against Sebestyén, according to his claim, another door opened for him in Hungary.

- outlined Berei and mentioned that there was a naturalized Russian with whom he maintained a particularly good relationship.

Berei answered the question about his experiences with Sebestyén.

Berei concluded his thoughts. He added that if someone in any sport experiences something similar, persevere, and the athletes, coaches, and parents will unite and win together.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Mark was way too gushing in the RD, but had toned it down a lot for the FD - presumably as a result of the vocal feedback he was getting on twitter. I do wonder how much guidance he got from the ISU on how to handle the situation, or how much broadcast training he's had at all about what you should & shouldn't say about ongoing legal issues.

I’d guess there wasn’t much guidance from the ISU until after some of the social media backlash. Does the ISU even have a committee for ethics/safe sports? I mean, they let Eteri sit in the Kiss and Cry, even as audience members were shooting her dirty looks from the stands.