John Coughlin has died

[once_upon]

I keep reading that people think he is a rapist as a result of the suspension. There are three levels of what I think things could be classified as
Sexual harassment - this would be inappropriate language, getting into personal space like unwanted hugs, some level of inappropriate touch

Sexual misconduct - repeated inappropriate touch when asked to stop repeatedly, pressure to be romantically involved when in a power structure (coach to student, adult to minor, etc.),

Sexual assault - like rape

As far as I know the investigation surround sexual misconduct. Unless there were charges pending, misconduct does not equal assault.

 

[Teamgracie]

....can’t figure out how to delete this
Anyways suicide is not in any way an automatic admission of guilt. That would be like saying those men accused of harassment are innocent because they did not kill themselves. Maybe that helps to see the fault with that line of assuming.

 

[Prancer]

we can only speculate based off of what we know

Why do we need to do that? Is it really so hard to say we don't know and go on from there?

In a way they have nothing to lose. In the court of public opinion, he's already a convicted rapist and child molester.

Is he? I mean, yes, there is the "some people on social media say" thing, but is this actually the majority view?

 

[BlueRidge]

The definition of ‘news’ is something out of the ordinary. ...Everything going along smoothly is not a news story.

These days... maybe it is...

 

[kwanatic]

Why do we need to do that? Is it really so hard to say we don't know and go on from there?

No, it's not. We don't know. However if speculation is not allowed then there's no point in talking about it at all b/c it will never be resolved. Anything regarding it will always be speculation because we will never have the full truth/both sides of the story to put an end to said speculation. That's what's so upsetting about this whole thing. We will never know if he was guilty or innocent.

 

[MacMadame]

....can’t figure out how to delete this
Anyways suicide is not in any way an automatic admission of guilt. That would be like saying those men accused of harassment are innocent because they did not kill themselves. Maybe that helps to see the fault with that line of assuming.

No it's not the same as saying people who don't kill themselves are innocent. You are making the logical fallacy of 'if a is a member of b, then b is a member of a' when the one doesn't prove the other.

 

[Teamgracie]

No it's not the same as saying people who don't kill themselves are innocent. You are making the logical fallacy of 'if a is a member of b, then b is a member of a' when the one doesn't prove the other.

No,I’m not. I’m pointing out the problem with saying that someone who kills themselves is guilty! That is wrong no matter how you want to try to swing it.

I’m out because this touches too close to home. I’ll just say that unless you have been there don’t make assumptions about what kind of person commits suicide or what they feel or why they do it.

 

[Prancer]

However if speculation is not allowed then there's no point in talking about it at all b/c it will never be resolved.

At no point has anyone said that speculation isn't allowed. The question was why do it when you know you will never know the answer? This is not a case where someone might figure out a solution; none of us will never know what John Coughlin was thinking or feeling.

 

[kwanatic]

At no point has anyone said that speculation isn't allowed. The question was why do it when you know you will never know the answer? This is not a case where someone might figure out a solution; none of us will never know what John Coughlin was thinking or feeling.

That's pretty much what I said. If there's no reason to speculate there's no reason to discuss it b/c (like I said and you agreed) we will never know what actually happened here.

This has been a sad discussion all the way around and I think I'm going to take my own advice and stop speculating/discussing it. I pray for everyone involved and hope they can move beyond this tragedy.

 

[StitchMonkey]

It is interesting how many people think suicide must equal guilt. Strangely I think a guilty person would be less likely to kill themselves as I believe most guilty people are arrogant enough to think they can get away with whatever they did. And if they think they can get away with the crime, they likely think they can get out of trouble for it. Or at least that is my thinking.

Interesting how people can see things differently.

Really the most likely thing suicide indicates is mental illness.

 

[SHARPIE]

I think these threads have now served their purpose. There’s just a lot of unnecessary going around in circles and speculation now. I have consulted with my fellow admins and will reopen if we see fit.

Condolences and sympathies to everyone involved.