Except that science has shown that once a male body has gone through puberty, there is little to nothing that can be done to ever erase the physical male body advantages, testosterone therapy or not. This is why the testosterone meter is slowly being thrown out; because it is being found to not be valid. I wish there easy answers for fairness and equity for all, but there unfortunately are not.
If you can read that article and other research by the author who per her own bio on U Pitt school of medicine department of pediatrics primary interest is in physiology and genetics of hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal and care of patients differences in sex development and care of transgender youth, and conclude there are only two sexes, im impressed.
How many of the other women she is competing against went through male puberty? She is a woman, yes, but she is NOT "just like" all the other women she is competing against. They do not retain physical advantages of going through male puberty like Lia does, and nothing and no-one will ever be able to change that!
Margo may be taller than the average woman, yes, but she does NOT have the advantages of a male body! She does not have a heart that is 20+% bigger, that pumps far more blood and oxygen through her body, she does not have male skeletal proportions, she does not have the much smaller body fat percentage that male bodies have, she does not have the stronger ligaments/ joints that male bodies have, etc. These are scientific facts, not opinions or value judgements. I am sorry you don't like it, but there are biological differences between male and female bodies that cannot be changed after a male body goes through puberty. Period. End of story. Otherwise, why don't we just throw everybody together and not have different divisions at all?
This article is nearly 4 years old. Science has come a LONG way on this matter in that period of time. Can you show something scientific from the last couple years?Actually there is not enough research to confirm your data. This is one researcher who is doing that research. Obviously one study does not equate across the board, but it just proves further research is needed.
Her findings to date is documenting the hormone therapy does put the transgender female along the lines of other females.
Science | AAAS
www.science.org
As I said more studies are needed.
Do not insult my intelligence on this one. I am commenting on Australian law and the situation here. You actually didn't address the point I made about athletes of different sizes. How about explaining that one.
And what science would that be? You have done nothing but post opinion, with no actual science to support it. You do a great job of refuting actual science though!
As I said, more research is needed, but it is certainly impeded by the bias of those who don't want inclusion.
What I am telling you is that this and any bill that has been introduced is being done on the basis of demonising transgender people. They will claim it is science that is the motivation but that is not correct. That is not opinion but the tone of the discussion. Just another excuse to attack the "woke mob".
Where is that obvious? I said no such thing. Your assumptions are undermining your credibility.
One of them is a biological woman who did not go through male puberty. The other is a biological male (that cannot be changed) who went through male puberty (which also cannot be changed). Those are two major differences.
At this point, were is the eye roll emoticon? You clearly don't care if biological women are steamrolled by biological men in women's sports. By your assertions, why even bother with women's sports? Why not just combine everybody into one category?
Women are STILL being marginalized by being forced to compete with biological males! Why do you not understand that? Someone like Lia Thomas just does not belong competing with women athletes. Yes, her gender is woman. However, her sex is unchangeable male since she went through male puberty. If you are going to argue that women have been marginalized and deserve their own category, how can you possibly argue that someone whose body is male but identifies as female can compete with women and say that does not further marginalize women? It is ridiculous. Lia was ranked 430 in the three years of NCAA swimming that she competed, AS A MAN. Suddenly, she is competing with women, and is ranked number 1. That is not equitable to ciswomen AT ALL. If I was a young girl coming up, I would absolutely think twice about bothering to compete, knowing I could be forced to compete against biological men and have zero change of success, not matter how hard I trained. Not to mention, depending on the sport, a high chance of serious bodily injury by a male bodied person. Think about basketball. As a biological woman, I would be seriously scared of getting a serious injury if crashed into by a make bodied person, with their generally much bigger bodies, more bone density, higher muscle mass, and more brute strength. I am guessing you never had to deal with this possibility?
Once AGAIN, science CLEARLY states that once a body goes through male puberty, you canNOT undo the male body physical advantages!! Also, the only "transition" currently required is a lower level of testosterone, no other transition required. You REALLY think a body with male genitalia is female, especially after going through male puberty? Even is that male genitalia is cut off, no amount of transition can EVER get rid of male body proportions, the male cardiovascular/ heart size benefits, etc, that I have already cited scientific studies for! What is your scientific citations to cite that a male body can actually truly become female? For the record, have you bothered to read the articles about how Lia Thomas' own teammates do NOT support her competing in NCAA as a woman after already having competing 3 YEARS of NCAA as a MAN? I can both fully support Lia's gender identity as woman while also realizing the unfairness to ciswoman of having her compete as a woman while she still (and likely always will) maintain many physical advantages of having gone through male puberty. There are also scientific articles out there about unintentional injury to cis women by trans women in contact sports due to brut physical differences. This is NOT being ignorant or discriminatory, it is mere FACT. JFC. Are you a ciswoman? Have you ever had to deal with the very real possibility of getting hurt by a trans woman, even unintentionally, while playing women's sports?!
I just told you that in endurance running the women are competitive with the men these days. This is because they have other advantages that make them better. One of those advantages is that women have more body fat and also we burn fat better. You need that if you are going to run 100 miles because you can't take in enough calories by eating to fuel the entire run. So a trans woman in this sport would have a disadvantage if she had gone through puberty and a trans man who had gone through puberty would have an advantage over the cis man.
Really? You don't think science will advance so that we are able to do that? Or maybe someday it will be the norm for trans women to have been on puberty blockers as kids so that very few of them will have gone through "male puberty."
In your opinion.
Part of why I think this supposed concern about trans women in sports is motivated by a belief that trans women are not real women and prejudice against trans people is because there are almost twice as many intersexed people as trans people in the world, and yet these people in the US trying to pass laws to deny trans people medical care or keep them out of sports or to say that treating them is child abuse completely ignore the intersexed. I don't think it's about fairness at all but about demonizing trans people.
Whatever, dude, stay on your soapbox. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. You can BOTH advocate for trans women while also realizing that there are biological differences between trans and cis women. Advocating for fairness in women's sports does not make someone transphobic. If there were no biological differences between trans and cis women, we would not even be having this conversation, and you know it!
What I know is that as soon as a trans girl or woman started winning, transphobes would be up in arms even if there were no physical differences they could point to.
And what did you do but post the same drivel over and over? At least I posted actual science articles from the last year or two, which you did not do. I did not say anywhere I am transphobic, but thanks for your ASSumption and judgement! Again, advocating for the rights of BOTH trans AND cis women does NOT make someone transphobic, but thanks again for your judgement! I'm still waiting for your recent and reliable scientific articles that there are no biological differences between cis and trans women, particularly trans women who went through male puberty. I will wait patiently! In the meantime, why don't you go tell a cis woman who was raped by a man that she is transphobic if she is scared/ triggered by being forced to share a locker room with a trans woman who still has a p*n*s?What I know is that as soon as a trans girl or woman started winning, transphobes would be up in arms even if there were no physical differences they could point to.
But thanks for the thoughtful response to my post where you actually address my comments instead of repeating the same 3 sentences over and over.
Once again, are you going to go tell a cis woman who was raped by a man that she is transphobic if she is scared/ triggered by being forced to share a locker room with a trans woman who still has a p*n*s? I did not call you any name or pass any kind of judgement on you. I would ask you to kindly do the same for me. It you cannot, that says a LOT more about YOU than it does about me! Lia Thomas still has a p*n*s, which means she is definitely NOT “just like” all the other women in that locker room. Many of them are uncomfortable with the situation and in being forced to share a locker room with Lia; are you going to call them all transphobic? Would you say that to their faces? What if these were your daughters?
nypost.com
This woman has transitioned from male to the point of being allowed to compete as a woman in NCAA sports, yet she still has a p*n*s. Can you honestly say her body is no longer male when she still has male genitalia? As for your statement that most women "will not care," the teammates of this women say much differently. Would you call them all transphobic and say "JFC" to them, to their faces? What if one/ some of them were raped by a male? What if these women were your daughters? They are not biggots or "transphobs" for being uncomfortable in being forced to share a locker room with a woman who still very much has a male body!
nypost.com
