ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[vireo]

They were probably forced too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705582050416238657

They all look thrilled to be there.

 

[Mafke]

hey were probably forced too

Define "forced".... there's always a choice and they chose to publicly support the invasion.

They've chosen to support the russian government for.... how many years?

The bill has arrived and they're paying it (doesn't matter if resentfully or with a song in their heart).

All accomplices.

 

[nlloyd]

Define "forced".... there's always a choice and they chose to publicly support the invasion.

They've chosen to support the russian government for.... how many years?

The bill has arrived and they're paying it (doesn't matter if resentfully or with a song in their heart).

All accomplices.

I think @airgelaal meant that sarcastically. They have long criticized the argument that Russians are forced to support the invasion of Ukraine due to repercussions if they don't. I agree with airgelaal that most Russians support the invasion of their own volition. They are nationalists and see themselves as patriots. In my opinion, they have been indoctrinated by the media and influenced by a powerful "group think" that exists in Russian society.

 

[Andrea82]

Well, there's not much that can be done about the skaters who live & train in Russia but represent other countries.

Sierova/Khobta refused to greet Metelkina/Berulava during the medal ceremony at JGP Budapest the other day.
Khobta looked to another side when Berulava approached him. Metelkina attempted to hug Sierova who stood still and shaked her head (and said a couple of words). At the end, they all stayed on their "step" of the podium and the group photo was done with all teams far apart (third placed Canadians didn't know what to do during the group photo)

 

[Sylvia]

I missed seeing the pairs ceremony but am not surprised (eta: since I also follow pro tennis).

 

[caseyedwards]

Ivan Shmuratko's tweet today (Sept. 6, 2023): https://twitter.com/v4no__/status/1699304085298512172

https://twitter.com/x/status/1699304085298512172

It’s not the state it’s the government

 

[PRlady]

It’s not the state it’s the government

You truly need a Political Science 101 course. In a dictatorship the state and government are the same thing. It’s not like a “Tory government” in the UK or a “Democratic administration” in the US, which are temporary holders of power. Despite Trump’s attempts the government and state are divisible.

Russia is Example A of no division between state power and the government running things. They are one and the same.

 

[Mafke]

It’s not the state

The state approves, how many large protests have there been?

If the russian public disapproved it wouldn't be happening.

 

[Holy Headband]

You truly need a Political Science 101 course. In a dictatorship the state and government are the same thing. It’s not like a “Tory government” in the UK or a “Democratic administration” in the US, which are temporary holders of power. Despite Trump’s attempts the government and state are divisible.

Russia is Example A of no division between state power and the government running things. They are one and the same.

Besides, Shmuratko is not a native speaker on English. His English is really good, but playing semantic games with his tweets is unfair. (I say this as a fellow non-native speaker.)

 

[Marta24]

The skeleton and bobsleigh Federation decided to uphold the Russian ban for the next season.
https://twitter.com/heraskevych/status/1705906823826473469?t=PF3X8B6XUXG3kZ1cZQx3AA&s=19

I think this is the first Federation of a Winter Sport, where we hear a decision about this matter. It will be interesting to see what the ISU will decide next month.

 

[On My Own]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705993385427763682

 

[Hedwig]

good for them

 

[Firedancer]

Statement from Vincent Zhou on the Valieva hearing, Russian doping and failure to hold them accountable. Sadly I know this won’t change anything.

https://x.com/globalathletehq/status/1706262286447370472?s=46&t=t-qfJxDjad9-j4B-GsMqGg

 

[airgelaal]

russian media decided to ask the IOC how to punish the Ukrainians for refusing to shake hands with the “Georgians.”
It is suspicious that this situation interested the russians so much. But I couldn’t find any reaction from the Georgians.
The IOC refused to comment

МОК отказался комментировать скандал с украинскими фигуристами

Пресс-служба Международного олимпийского комитета (МОК) отказалась комментировать ситуацию с поведением украинских фигуристов в отношении грузинской пары... РИА Новости Спорт, 25.09.2023

rsport.ria.ru

 

[Holy Headband]

Statement from Vincent Zhou on the Valieva hearing, Russian doping and failure to hold them accountable. Sadly I know this won’t change anything.

https://x.com/globalathletehq/status/1706262286447370472?s=46&t=t-qfJxDjad9-j4B-GsMqGg

What a great and uncompromising statement from Vincent!

One tangentially related thing it doesn't mention, which is murkier and harder to prove but may be an even bigger distorting factor than the doping IMO, is the blatant corruption of the judging system that Russian skaters (mostly women) benefited from for many years. Trusova's PCS, Shcherbakova's recorded tech content and GOEs, none of it was real or remotely believable.

I don't know how much of it was actual, crude bribery/quid pro quo deals between federations and how much of it was wilful delusion on the part of the judges in the hope that by contributing to the hype about the "quad revolution" in women's skating they would help attract new fans to the sport, but it was dishonest, it robbed vastly superior skaters of the medals, prize money and recognition they deserved, it pushed the sport in an ugly and unwatchable direction, and the Russian federation definitely had a hand in it.

Gosh, it's so nice without them.

 

[On My Own]

russian media decided to ask the IOC how to punish the Ukrainians for refusing to shake hands with the “Georgians.”
It is suspicious that this situation interested the russians so much. But I couldn’t find any reaction from the Georgians.
The IOC refused to comment

МОК отказался комментировать скандал с украинскими фигуристами

Пресс-служба Международного олимпийского комитета (МОК) отказалась комментировать ситуацию с поведением украинских фигуристов в отношении грузинской пары... РИА Новости Спорт, 25.09.2023

rsport.ria.ru

So I guess Russia's acknowledging Russian athletes are indeed Russian no matter which country they're competing for?

Hope the other feds use this to push against Russian presence at the upcoming meeting.

 

[airgelaal]

I am very sad that the Georgian federation forgot how Elena Gedevanishvili was kicked out of russia in 2006. The federation forgot that russia attacked Georgia in 2008. Now the Georgian team has happily become the russia-2
Here is an example of a real Georgian athlete.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[Orm Irian]

Statement from Vincent Zhou on the Valieva hearing, Russian doping and failure to hold them accountable. Sadly I know this won’t change anything.

https://x.com/globalathletehq/status/1706262286447370472?s=46&t=t-qfJxDjad9-j4B-GsMqGg

Well said, Vincent Zhou.

 

[caseyedwards]

Statement from Vincent Zhou on the Valieva hearing, Russian doping and failure to hold them accountable. Sadly I know this won’t change anything.

https://x.com/globalathletehq/status/1706262286447370472?s=46&t=t-qfJxDjad9-j4B-GsMqGg

What a bunch of lies. He writes as well as he rotates

 

[On My Own]

What a bunch of lies. He writes as well as he rotates

I suppose you seek inspiration from Plushenko's Sex Bomb choreography and the outside edge Flip that can be seen from outer space, then? Got it.

 

[Mafke]

Well said

They couldn't even compete under their own flag (not that they care about that) and they somehow got to dictate how medals were awarded (or weren't awarded)?

I don't think much of the olympics in general but this is a new low....

I'm really not interested in ever watching a russian athlete in international competition again... (unless they renounce citizenship and openly distance themselves from the government)

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't know how much of it was actual, crude bribery/quid pro quo deals between federations and how much of it was wilful delusion on the part of the judges in the hope that by contributing to the hype about the "quad revolution" in women's skating they would help attract new fans to the sport, but it was dishonest, it robbed vastly superior skaters of the medals, prize money and recognition they deserved, it pushed the sport in an ugly and unwatchable direction, and the Russian federation definitely had a hand in it.

Or, because of the number of former Soviet and Russian judges in the network, there was the constant threat of not towing the line and getting buried, small Feds especially, who are often reliant on a single skater or team to break top 10 to get any foothold to try to develop a program. It’s quite easy for a cluster of judges to bury that skater in the teens.

Judges also seemed to be looking over their shoulder when they expect Russian skaters and officials to be back when retaliation would start, given how many judges in that network are still representing other places, taking notes and keeping score. All of the back bending the IOC, which the ISU is hiding behind, is doing to get Russia back in, makes the ground shaky for making any substantial change, and that would explain the lenience, over-scoring, and refusing to ding the flaws of the current crop of skaters, so that when the Russian skaters are back, it will be the same applied to them again.

 

[airgelaal]

Poor "Georgian" pair. Their 15 minutes of fame are over as the russians now have a new enemy

 

[Frau Muller]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1705993385427763682

So Georgia is now an enemy country?

Will Ukrainians ask for Ancestry DNA tests to prove no Russian heritage by skaters of all countries? Should there be a “DNA Test Table” in competitions?

 

[Willin]

@Frau Muller Many Georgian skaters, even those of Georgian ethnicity, are born, raised, train, and live in Russia - this pair included. Just because they compete for one country doesn't mean they align politically with it. They're much more likely to align with the politics of their more literal home country.

I've always wondered, for instance, I've always wondered how much Zahorski/Guerrerio's politics actually aligned with those in Russia given they're from England/Australia and trained some in the US. Of course you shut up for the funding in such an expensive sport, but they can't be nearly as involved in or corrupted by the propaganda machine as the Eteri girls.

 

[Frau Muller]

@Frau Muller Many Georgian skaters, even those of Georgian ethnicity, are born, raised, train, and live in Russia - this pair included. Just because they compete for one country doesn't mean they align politically with it. They're much more likely to align with the politics of their more literal home country.
….

I know @Willin … but it makes little sense to turn backs on skaters/coaches/officials of Russian heritage, birth, or even those who grew up in Russia. How many skaters/coaches/officials would be banned to get rid of Russian heritage…many USFS skaters, in fact. Perhaps Russian composers should be banned too (as Chicagoans tried to do when the Joffrey Ballet performed Anna Karenina to Tchaikovsky last winter).

I am fine with banning those who wore a “Z” or paraded with Putin. Maybe Metelkina & Berulava did that?

 

[airgelaal]

So Georgia is now an enemy country?

Will Ukrainians ask for Ancestry DNA tests to prove no Russian heritage by skaters of all countries? Should there be a “DNA Test Table” in competitions?

in such a small world of figure skating it is very difficult not to know who is who. But you can continue to repeat the best quotes from russian propagandists.
I’m still waiting for the Georgians’ reaction. But for real Georgians, everything seems to be ok.

 

[Frau Muller]

in such a small world of figure skating it is very difficult not to know who is who. But you can continue to repeat the best quotes from russian propagandists.
I’m still waiting for the Georgians’ reaction. But for real Georgians, everything seems to be ok.

“Real Georgians”? What are “Real Americans” or “Real Norwegians” or anyone else?

 

[Willin]

I know @Willin … but it makes little sense to turn backs on skaters/coaches/officials of Russian heritage, birth, or even those who grew up in Russia. How many skaters/coaches/officials would be banned to get rid of Russian heritage…many USFS skaters, in fact. Perhaps Russian composers should be banned too (as Chicagoans tried to do when the Joffrey Ballet performed Anna Karenina to Tchaikovsky last winter).

I am fine with banning those who wore a “Z” or paraded with Putin. Maybe Metelkina & Berulava did that?

Long dead Russian composers and artists, some of whom died well before even the Bolshevik Revolution, are irrelevant to this conversation.

Russians living outside of Russia should be judged individually. Many actually leave and have recently left (including possibly Eteri's own SIL) because they don't support the war or at least don't want to be part of it. The Russian community where I live have rallied behind and supported the local Ukranian community to the point of supporting refugees. But there are some that support the war.

But if you're in Russia? You must remember that taxes exist. Regardless of whether you're of Russian ethnicity or getting funding from Russia (who fund sports as a branch of the military), if you're in Russia you're buying from businesses that pay taxes to the government and operates in an economy that supports the war. You pay sales tax to the Russian government when you shop. You (or your apartment) pays property taxes to the Russian government. You likely pay income taxes to the Russian government. That coach you're paying may or may not be a government employee. Regardless of your personal stance, your money is literally funding the war. If you actually cared that much, you could train outside of Russia - especially since you're not funded by the Russian government.

 

[airgelaal]

“Real Georgians”? What are “Real Americans” or “Real Norwegians” or anyone else?

A russian who was born in russia and has lived in russia all his life has passports from the following countries: russia, Georgia and, for example, Burkina Faso.
Now the question is: who is he?