ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating 2017/18 - locations & preliminary information

[chameleonster]

Possibly the perception of their upside potential. From what I've seen so far of the US junior dancers on the JGP so far--not named Carreira/Ponomarenko or Green/Green--they seem to have an "it" factor over the others. In a dance field where technical ability and skating skills are at similar levels among several US junior couples, the PCS/performance factor and reception from international judges might be the deciding factor for who gets more exposure. That said, I'd be surprised if Lewis/Bye was passed over for a second spot at either Poland or Italy JGP.

Lewis/Bye are still listed for Italy, Nguyen/Kolesnik are currently listed for both Italy and Poland, but as they were more recently added to Poland I'm assuming that one is their actual assignment. So there is likely one spot open at Italy after Lewis/Bye.

After the top four more established US junior couples(Carreira/Ponomarenko, Lewis/Bye, Greens, Gropman/Somerville) Nguyen/Kolesnik have consistently had the highest scores, and the only team not of those top four to break 50 in the SD, both at Lake Placid and their JGP. They also received higher PCS than the others, despite both their newness and the fall on the step sequence in the FD. Giving experience to teams that have received favorable reactions from international judges makes plenty of sense.

 

[Lara111]

Lewis/Bye are still listed for Italy, Nguyen/Kolesnik are currently listed for both Italy and Poland, but as they were more recently added to Poland I'm assuming that one is their actual assignment. So there is likely one spot open at Italy after Lewis/Bye.

After the top four more established US junior couples(Carreira/Ponomarenko, Lewis/Bye, Greens, Gropman/Somerville) Nguyen/Kolesnik have consistently had the highest scores, and the only team not of those top four to break 50 in the SD, both at Lake Placid and their JGP. They also received higher PCS than the others, despite both their newness and the fall on the step sequence in the FD. Giving experience to teams that have received favorable reactions from international judges makes plenty of sense.

''IT'' factor is very difficult to measure fairly against the other teams. For some people they have ''it'' for others not so much. I personally do not see long term potential for this team. It is clear that if they were sent to Riga they would have been 8th, very possibly behind G/W without help of US technical panel and judges. The same thing happens again when they go to Poland where there are only three- four decent teams and all other are really weak. This is very sad when you see some kids pushed over the others and rules are easily broken. It is especially bad when it is done in Junior field.

 

[wickedwitch]

''IT'' factor is very difficult to measure fairly against the other teams. For some people they have ''it'' for others not so much. I personally do not see long term potential for this team. It is clear that if they were sent to Riga they would have been 8th, very possibly behind G/W without help of US technical panel and judges. The same thing happens again when they go to Poland where there are only three- four decent teams and all other are really weak. This is very sad when you see some kids pushed over the others and rules are easily broken. It is especially bad when it is done in Junior field.

Who do you think should get the spot instead? In my mind, none of the other teams have stood out. Or would you keep it empty?

 

[Lara111]

Who do you think should get the spot instead? In my mind, none of the other teams have stood out. Or would you keep it empty?

I would rather keep it empty.

 

[Dobre]

You also have to get a certain score which they did not

How do you know? As far as I know there was never a score announced on FSU for what criteria was required of a U.S. junior dance team to be considered for a second JGP. I assumed there was a score; but as I said previously in the U.S. Ice Dance thread, I didn't know what it would be. Only an estimate based on previous seasons. (And, as we have discussed earlier there, the possible base value in the FD is down this season so comparing scores from previous seasons isn't really fair).

We do know the score required for teams to qualify for the ISP. That is the only junior qualifying score I have seen posted on the U.S. Dance thread this season.

My hypothesis, after looking at scores over the past two seasons, was that teams would likely need a score of 120. Last season Gropman & Somerville earned a score of 113.66 and Gunter & Wein earned a score of 112.82 and didn't receive a second event. This year Gunter & Wein received a score of 113.08; and as of now, they do not have a second event (though they could be under consideration for the second one in Italy).

But the required score this season could be 114. Or it could be either a top 5 finish or a particular score.

I'm very glad to see USFS using their junior dance spots this season! As far as whether they go to first appearances by Efimova & Petrov or DelCamp & Gart or whether they go to second appearances for teams like Nguyen & Kolesnik or Gunter & Wein, that's a judgment call. The places will not be wasted either way. These teams all need experience.

 

[jlai]

I don't have an opinion on the ice dancers but I have been wondering about USFS sending novice skaters like endo to junior Grand Prix.
I would leave the spots empty in return for either political favors(depending on who is next in line for spots) or maybe saving some $$$ to send some promising jr ladies to an extra international event.

 

[Dobre]

The entry list has Pulkinen and Hiwatashi listed as the USA men's entries for Poland and those assignments make sense to me.

I believe Hiwatashi has been off the list for Poland a couple days now.

 

[Debbie S]

I believe Hiwatashi has been off the list for Poland a couple days now.

That must have been right after I last saw the list. Looks like Dinh Tran is going to get an assignment, to Poland...good for him. I assume Hiwatashi will be in Italy with Torgashev. And it looks like Ashley Lin has been assigned to Italy, so perhaps Starr will get a Senior B (that might also get her a bye through Sectionals, depending on timing).

I don't have an opinion on the ice dancers but I have been wondering about USFS sending novice skaters like endo to junior Grand Prix.

I found that odd, too. I'm all in favor of giving more skaters opportunities, but there are plenty of Junior-eligible men in the ISP that are actually competing in Junior this year. I would vote for giving them assignments before Novice skaters.

 

[Stephanie]

Lists were changed again today and for US dance it's now:
Poland: Greens, Gunter/Wein
Italy: Lewis/Bye, Nguyen/Kolesnik
Makes sense giving who shares coaches

Also:
Hanna Harrell for ladies (second assignment of the season for her!) in Italy
Hiwatashi moved to Italy with Torgashev as predicted

 

[her grace]

Hanna Harrell for ladies (second assignment of the season for her!) in Italy

I hope this means Andrews and Lin are each getting a senior B because they should get a second assignment, too. Both their scores were significantly higher than Harrell's at Asian Open.

ETA: Harrell's selection is frustrating to me. I can see how USFS wants to send her out because she has a ton of potential. BUT she hasn't realized that potential in her domestic competitions. She was only 6th at novice nationals. She only finished 4th at the U.S. Challenge in Salt Lake. She also didn't knock it out of the park at her international at the Asian Open. IMO, a skater needs to reach some of her potential domestically before she leapfrogs skaters who finish ahead of her/score higher than her for international assignments.

 

[Frida80]

I hope this means Andrews and Lin are each getting a senior B because they should get a second assignment, too. Both their scores were significantly higher than Harrell's at Asian Open.

Ashley is 14. She's not old enough for a Senior B. What I hope this means is that both Starr and Ashleh are getting Junior B's. They both have high level programs, if clean that could give them good results at JW. I'm simply stunned that they didn't give either Ashley or Starr a second JGP. While I'm all for giving newbies like Hanna experience, I think both Ashley and Starr could've improved on their results.

We really need more slots.

 

[her grace]

Ashley is 14. She's not old enough for a Senior B. What I hope this means is that both Starr and Ashleh are getting Junior B's.

Oh, I didn't know that. I thought she was older. Agreed, send her to a junior B then.

 

[Debbie S]

Which comps are Junior B's?

Hopefully, we can get 2 ladies spots at each event next year. Do we need a medal at JW, or.....?

 

[her grace]

Hopefully, we can get 2 ladies spots at each event next year. Do we need a medal at JW, or.....?

To earn 2 at every event, you must be in the top 3 countries. For example,

1 RUS
2 RUS
3 JPN
4 RUS
5 KOR

The top 3 are Russia, Japan, and Korea, who BTW are the three favored countries at this year's jr. worlds. It's going to be very difficult to for the U.S. because they have to beat everyone from one of those countries.

ETA: The U.S. has been the 4th best nation a few times now (including last season), which is also important because the 4th nation gets unused spots from other top-10 nations.

 

[Lara111]

Lists were changed again today and for US dance it's now:
Poland: Greens, Gunter/Wein
Italy: Lewis/Bye, Nguyen/Kolesnik
Makes sense giving who shares coaches

Also:
Hanna Harrell for ladies (second assignment of the season for her!) in Italy
Hiwatashi moved to Italy with Torgashev as predicted

Now ice dance assignments make more sense.

 

[Lara111]

How do you know? As far as I know there was never a score announced on FSU for what criteria was required of a U.S. junior dance team to be considered for a second JGP. I assumed there was a score; but as I said previously in the U.S. Ice Dance thread, I didn't know what it would be. Only an estimate based on previous seasons. (And, as we have discussed earlier there, the possible base value in the FD is down this season so comparing scores from previous seasons isn't really fair).

We do know the score required for teams to qualify for the ISP. That is the only junior qualifying score I have seen posted on the U.S. Dance thread this season.

My hypothesis, after looking at scores over the past two seasons, was that teams would likely need a score of 120. Last season Gropman & Somerville earned a score of 113.66 and Gunter & Wein earned a score of 112.82 and didn't receive a second event. This year Gunter & Wein received a score of 113.08; and as of now, they do not have a second event (though they could be under consideration for the second one in Italy).

But the required score this season could be 114. Or it could be either a top 5 finish or a particular score.

I'm very glad to see USFS using their junior dance spots this season! As far as whether they go to first appearances by Efimova & Petrov or DelCamp & Gart or whether they go to second appearances for teams like Nguyen & Kolesnik or Gunter & Wein, that's a judgment call. The places will not be wasted either way. These teams all need experience.

I say about certain requirements for the second JGP because I know. N/K and G/W both did not meet these requirements. I am glad both are going now and G/W have a fair shot at 4th place if nothing changes.

 

[toddlj]

http://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=84032&menu=TeamUSA
We should assume the assignments are final as they are on this page now.

 

[feraina]

To earn 2 at every event, you must be in the top 3 countries. For example,
The top 3 are Russia, Japan, and Korea, who BTW are the three favored countries at this year's jr. worlds. It's going to be very difficult to for the U.S. because they have to beat everyone from one of those countries.

ETA: The U.S. has been the 4th best nation a few times now (including last season), which is also important because the 4th nation gets unused spots from other top-10 nations.

Well at least the US looks very likely to do no worse than 4th this year, based on the scores so far. And there's only one Korean who scored higher than Emmy Ma. So it's not completely impossible to beat out Korea to be the third best nation.