ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[RoseRed]

Especially, as many of the competitors and their support crews were already in Montreal when the event was cancelled.

Well, there is some room between 2.5 months before and a week before.

 

[MsZem]

My god the drama. There is a sea of difference between there not being a worlds competition (which would always been a worlds with a huge asterisk beside it because of the incredibly uneven playing field skaters around the world face) and skaters sitting at home and doing nothing.

I don't think anyone is being dramatic. One argument for canceling Worlds earlyish was that it would save skaters the expense of training. But this assumes they'll just stop training and do something else, like stay home.

I can imagine using panels of 7 instead of 9 judges at Nationals. But they do need to have national judges.

And tech panels.

And accountants, music technicians, announcers, etc.

And ISU-level officials for Worlds.

Why would accountants be needed on-site for Worlds?

I think if the event goes ahead, we're going to see what's the leanest way an ISU championship can be run. That might actually be useful for future reference.

I think the judge/official issue is a pertinent point. There aren't endless supplies of judges qualified for these levels (especially internationally). It takes years of work to get to that point - with the result that many of the international judges particularly are getting into that more vulnerable age bracket.

Judges are also volunteers. For many of them, their employment could be at risk if they willingly travelled overseas, or if they travelled to an event that became a spreader, or if they became ill themselves. I imagine the medical bills for a judge who travelled to US Nationals and got sick would be horrendous.

Yes. As US Nationals shows.

 

[ballettmaus]

I don't see any reason why Worlds couldn't happen, if not in March, then in April or May. By then the oldest and most vulnerable of the officials, coaches, and potential volunteers would probably have been vaccinated or at least enough of them will be. Also, the horrible surges that we are experiencing now should have died down because people will not be visiting each other for the holidays in spite of orders.

Many European countries have a winter break at the end of January/the beginning of February, mid-February there's Mardi Gras/carnival in parts of Germany and I don't know what other countries, then there's two weeks of Easter break and Easter (which is a much bigger celebration in Europe than in the US, at least as far as I've experienced).
It may change until then but about a week ago, I heard that Austria and Switzerland don't plan to shut down their ski areas. I have no idea about the ski areas in Eastern Europe. In Europe, skiing can include a lot of alcohol and party (think spring break) for young people especially.

The surges may not be as bad but unfortunately, there are more "events" coming up in Europe that have the potential to cause surges.

And people in the Northern Hemisphere will be starting to come out of the inside more as it warms up.

In Southern Europe maybe but if the weather is anything like it was the last years, people won't be coming out before the end of April/beginning of May in the rest of Europe.


What I don't understand is, do other countries not have an estimate as to when they will begin vaccinating the general population? The US estimates that that'll happen around the end of April/beginning of May. Unfortunately, I think that if anything, that timeline will see a delay rather than be sped up but I think it would help the ISU if they had estimates like that from all of the (major) participating countries.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Well, there is some room between 2.5 months before and a week before.

Given the season or lack thereof, get back to me in January.

I think the ISU should pull the plug now.

 

[skategal]

Many European countries have a winter break at the end of January/the beginning of February, mid-February there's Mardi Gras/carnival in parts of Germany and I don't know what other countries, then there's two weeks of Easter break and Easter (which is a much bigger celebration in Europe than in the US, at least as far as I've experienced).
It may change until then but about a week ago, I heard that Austria and Switzerland don't plan to shut down their ski areas. I have no idea about the ski areas in Eastern Europe. In Europe, skiing can include a lot of alcohol and party (think spring break) for young people especially.

The surges may not be as bad but unfortunately, there are more "events" coming up in Europe that have the potential to cause surges.


In Southern Europe maybe but if the weather is anything like it was the last years, people won't be coming out before the end of April/beginning of May in the rest of Europe.


What I don't understand is, do other countries not have an estimate as to when they will begin vaccinating the general population? The US estimates that that'll happen around the end of April/beginning of May. Unfortunately, I think that if anything, that timeline will see a delay rather than be sped up but I think it would help the ISU if they had estimates like that from all of the (major) participating countries.

Canada says the same and vaccinations start next week. Although our province is saying it will be summer.

There are only 3 countries that have approved the Pfizer vaccine so far with the US to be the 4th any minute now. Not sure if China and Russia have approved their own vaccines for use yet but still it would be only a handful of countries ready to move soon on vaccinating.

 

[kwanfan1818]

One argument for canceling Worlds earlyish was that it would save skaters the expense of training. But this assumes they'll just stop training and do something else, like stay home.

Not that they'd stop training altogether: they'd stop training this year's programs to peak in March, as opposed to starting to work on nect year's programs and building on a different schedule towards next swason.

 

[MsZem]

Not that they'd stop training altogether: they'd stop training this year's programs to peak in March, as opposed to starting to work on nect year's programs and building on a different schedule towards next season.

No, that was not the only argument being made - unless I misunderstood the post below:

So that they can save themselves ten weeks of training expenses.

But let's assume that instead of taking time off skaters work on choreo for next season. It makes more sense than staying at home, and certainly there's nowhere to go and not much to do at the moment. But the same issues with traveling would make it very difficult for skaters to meet in person with choreographers, which is also not ideal. Wouldn't they want to wait for mid-2021, by which time travel will presumably be easier and safer?

Everyone knows when the Olympics will be held (assuming no changes there), and I doubt anyone is planning to start working towards that in January 2021. Now, if there's going to be a major fall qualifier, that is something that skaters will need to know about. But it doesn't really matter much if they know about it in January or February.

There are only 3 countries that have approved the Pfizer vaccine so far with the US to be the 4th any minute now. Not sure if China and Russia have approved their own vaccines for use yet but still it would be only a handful of countries ready to move soon on vaccinating.

EUA was approved by the FDA yesterday. And where the FDA goes, many follow.

Covid: FDA approves Pfizer vaccine for emergency use in US

The US Food and Drug Administration gave its approval late on Friday after White House pressure.

www.bbc.com

 

[gkelly]

Why would accountants be needed on-site for Worlds?

Same reason accountants are present at all on-site competitions.

If you're suggesting that for the first time ever at a major event they should forgo having a technical accountant at rinkside during the event and other accountants in a nearby room, but rather have these vital skating officials all working remotely, then expect long delays and possibly errors in the posting of scores.

 

[skategal]

EUA was approved by the FDA yesterday.

Covid: FDA approves Pfizer vaccine for emergency use in US

The US Food and Drug Administration gave its approval late on Friday after White House pressure.

www.bbc.com

Great! That must have happened after I went to bed. Lol...

 

[MsZem]

Same reason accountants are present at all on-site competitions.

If you're suggesting that for the first time ever at a major event they should forgo having a technical accountant at rinkside during the event and other accountants in a nearby room, but rather have these vital skating officials all working remotely, then expect long delays and possibly errors in the posting of scores.

Oh, you meant event officials responsible for data. I thought this had to do with financial matters, and was very much confused.

 

[Vagabond]

One argument for canceling Worlds earlyish was that it would save skaters the expense of training.

As the person who made the point about saving the expense of training, I must take you to task. tony asked why it mattered whether Worlds was canceled two and a half months early as opposed to right before the scheduled date, and I said that it mattered to skaters because if they knew that Worlds would not be held, they could spare themselves training expenses.

This is not an argument for canceling Worlds early; it is a statement of why it matters whether the competition is is canceled early or late. I do not suggest that this is, by itself, a reason for canceling Worlds early. Rather, it is an argument for canceling Worlds early if it is reasonably clear that they cannot be staged this season. There is a difference, and I do not like having words put in my mouth.

 

[MsZem]

As the person who made the point about saving the expense of training, I must take you to task. tony asked why it mattered whether Worlds was canceled two and a half months early as opposed to right before the scheduled date, and I said that it mattered to skaters because if they knew that Worlds would not be held, they could spare themselves training expenses.

The post was part of an ongoing discussion - missing some of the context, and noting I may have misunderstood, is not putting words in your mouth.

Anyway, I think we can agree that if this argument came up, it is reasonable to discuss it? Because the "my god the drama" post from marbri suggested otherwise.

 

[Vagabond]

The post was part of an ongoing discussion - missing some of the context, and noting I may have misunderstood, is not putting words in your mouth.

Anyway, I think we can agree that if this argument came up, it is reasonable to discuss it? Because the "my god the drama" post from marbri suggested otherwise.

I think anything that comes up in this thread related to holding, canceling, or postponing Worlds is a fair subject for discussion. Also (and this is directed to someone other than you, MsZem), no one should feel obligated to respond to a question just because it was specifically directed to him or her.

 

[Lemonade20]

Honestly, I don’t think it’s possible to put on any kind of events till possibly early 2022. In a way it’s like a toxic pregnancy: it takes time and becomes worse before it gets better and even after the baby (vaccine) has arrived, your body is still recovering. You’re not about to jump into a marathon right away. The world won’t be ready before summer at the earliest, so why try to plan anything before? It doesn’t make sense.

 

[MsZem]

Honestly, I don’t think it’s possible to put on any kind of events till possibly early 2022.

There are literally sports events going on right now. Including international ones.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I don't think anyone is being dramatic. One argument for canceling Worlds earlyish was that it would save skaters the expense of training. But this assumes they'll just stop training and do something else, like stay home.


Why would accountants be needed on-site for Worlds?

I think if the event goes ahead, we're going to see what's the leanest way an ISU championship can be run. That might actually be useful for future reference.


Yes. As US Nationals shows.

Not that they'd stop training altogether: they'd stop training this year's programs to peak in March, as opposed to starting to work on nect year's programs and building on a different schedule towards next swason.

I said that. I assumed skaters would train as they do in the off season which should be less costly than training to peak for worlds.

 

[Bigbird]

Does anyone know when the decision will be made regarding worlds?

 

[Colonel Green]

Does anyone know when the decision will be made regarding worlds?

Nobody does, least of all the ISU.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Does anyone know when the decision will be made regarding worlds?

Probably the day.before.

 

[MacMadame]

I think the ISU should pull the plug now.

I think that's bizarre. There are people literally being vaccinated as I type this. We have at least 4 or 5 vaccines in play right now. We have seen 3 GPs put on without becoming super-spreader events showing it can be done if precautions are followed (and 1 showing what happens if precautions are not followed), the event is 3 months away, and sports are happening all over the world.

There is absolutely no reason to cancel Worlds at this point.

Depending on whether or not the current surge has died out by early Feb and travel bans are starting to be lifted, the ISU may have to postpone the event to April or May. But it might actually be clear that it can be held as originally planned as well. There is no reason to cancel it now when there is still a possibility it will happen exactly as planned.

I'm all for canceling events that you know can't happen. There are certainly events that are planned for early 2021 that just aren't feasible until we reach herd immunity. But Worlds isn't one of them.

 

[Frau Muller]

I ....We have seen 3 GPs put on without becoming super-spreader events showing it can be done if

We’ve seen four - not three - GPs, MacMadame. Only Canada & France cancelled.

 

[MsZem]

We’ve seen four - not three - GPs, MacMadame. Only Canada & France cancelled.

As MacMadame noted, three GPs were not superspreader events. One GP was.

 

[Orm Irian]

I think that's bizarre. There are people literally being vaccinated as I type this. We have at least 4 or 5 vaccines in play right now. We have seen 3 GPs put on without becoming super-spreader events showing it can be done if precautions are followed (and 1 showing what happens if precautions are not followed), the event is 3 months away, and sports are happening all over the world.

There is absolutely no reason to cancel Worlds at this point.

Depending on whether or not the current surge has died out by early Feb and travel bans are starting to be lifted, the ISU may have to postpone the event to April or May. But it might actually be clear that it can be held as originally planned as well. There is no reason to cancel it now when there is still a possibility it will happen exactly as planned.

I'm all for canceling events that you know can't happen. There are certainly events that are planned for early 2021 that just aren't feasible until we reach herd immunity. But Worlds isn't one of them.

Not all countries have - or have approved - vaccines yet, though. Some won’t even be starting their rollout until March next year, or even later. Herd immunity, if the vaccines prevent transmission and it can be achieved, will take at minimum a couple of years to establish. I wish it could all be sorted quickly enough for a Worlds in March or April or May now that a handful of relevant countries have started vaccinating the elderly and health care professionals, but the logistics are currently in the It’s Always More Complicted basket.

 

[Lemonade20]

Not all countries have - or have approved - vaccines yet, though. Some won’t even be starting their rollout until March next year, or even later. Herd immunity, if the vaccines prevent transmission and it can be achieved, will take at minimum a couple of years to establish. I wish it could all be sorted quickly enough for a Worlds in March or April or May now that a handful of relevant countries have started vaccinating the elderly and health care professionals, but the logistics are currently in the It’s Always More Complicted basket.

Exactly

 

[misskarne]

We’ve seen four - not three - GPs, MacMadame. Only Canada & France cancelled.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you trying to act like Russia's complete irresponsibility didn't result in a super-spreader?

 

[Karen-W]

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you trying to act like Russia's complete irresponsibility didn't result in a super-spreader?

No. I think it's very clear that when the appropriate precautions are taken and ENFORCED (see Skate America, CoC and NHK) that skating events can be successfully held. Instead of a glass half-empty view, she's taking a glass three-quarters full view.

 

[mjb52]

I would also note the post about Rostelecom in the FRWL thread.

 

[Frau Muller]

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you trying to act like Russia's complete irresponsibility didn't result in a super-spreader?

There were four GP events this season, some with far better health standards than other(s).

 

[allezfred]

There were four GP events this season, some with far better health standards than other(s).

Three had far better standards than one.

Even if Worlds is cancelled skaters will keep on training if they want to compete next season. They might take a short break off but I don’t see the argument that calling Worlds off now will save them any great amount on training expenses.

I think if there is one event that the ISU wants to holds it is Worlds particularly because of the bearing it has on Olympic qualification. Cancelling it has huge ramifications for next season so if there is any way it can be held it will be held. We know if it does go ahead there will be no spectators and the hotel and arena are right next to each other (think I heard when I was in Stockholm in 2015 for Euros that there was actually an indoor passageway between them).

The announcement for short track Euros was released recently and they will be doing a bubble concept. Competitors have to have a negative PCR 72 hours before they arrive. On arrival, they are given another PCR test at the hotel and are confined to their rooms until all clear. Arrival is on a Monday and they don’t compete until the Friday, but they cannot leave the hotel unless it is to take the official shuttle to the rink.

 

[Vagabond]

I think that's bizarre. There are people literally being vaccinated as I type this.

Unless the skaters hoping to compete at Worlds are healthcare professionals, live in nursing homes, are over the age of 65, or have an underlying condition like chronic lung disease or a severe heart condition, they aren't likely to be fully vaccinated by March.



Valtter Virtanen FTW!!!