Israeli Skating News

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
it just seems like bad planning - if you're going to build a rink, build a decent sized one, once. but i guess that's israel (and I am saying that fondly)
They couldn't build "decent sized" rink back then, there were a lot of issues with land lease, etc. So it was this rink or no rink at that time. And so far at least we have something, and we have Israeli Nationals, and we have children who learn skating. And this rink will continue to be used as a secondary rink, especially if they plan to hold international competitions at the big rink (and they do plan that).
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
Messages
19,002
They did, because Iliya couldn't get his Israeli citizenship, so he and Isabella can't compete. I'm so sad for them.

The article doesn't say why he couldn't get citizenship. It seems unfair if it's due to his lack of number of years resident in Israel, when Israel doesn't have the training facilities he needs. All of the Israeli skaters train in the US because of this. I understand the rules; I'm just disappointed that they couldn't be flexible considering the fact that his wife is (as I recall) Israeli, and there aren't training facilities in Israel. :(

I'm happy for the other Israeli dance team. This is a very big deal for them, and I hope they skate well.
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
Never heard that we have the rule about number of years, because Bychenko spent here maybe a month and a half overall, if you count all his visits. Tkachenko's wife is Israeli? Since when? If she indeed had any Jewish heritage and was able to obtain Israeli citizenship, then maybe for non-Jewish spouses the rules are indeed different and require residency. I wonder what they were hoping for though. I don't think there were exceptions made for sportsmen ever (for basketball/football?), nobody here really cares about sports. :D
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
Messages
19,002
Oh, I don't know. Maybe I made that up in my head. ;) But the residency rule - I was wondering about Bychenko and that one.
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
Oh, I don't know. Maybe I made that up in my head. ;) But the residency rule - I was wondering about Bychenko and that one.
There is no residency rule in Israel. Any Jew can at any time obtain Israeli citizenship and continue living where he/she wants. I understand that Bychenko's case falls under The Law of Return, hence he could obtain citizenship and train in US.
 

fan

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,024
They couldn't build "decent sized" rink back then, there were a lot of issues with land lease, etc. So it was this rink or no rink at that time. And so far at least we have something, and we have Israeli Nationals, and we have children who learn skating. And this rink will continue to be used as a secondary rink, especially if they plan to hold international competitions at the big rink (and they do plan that).
b'hatzlacha (good luck)
 

MsZem

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,174
Never heard that we have the rule about number of years, because Bychenko spent here maybe a month and a half overall, if you count all his visits. Tkachenko's wife is Israeli? Since when? If she indeed had any Jewish heritage and was able to obtain Israeli citizenship, then maybe for non-Jewish spouses the rules are indeed different and require residency. I wonder what they were hoping for though. I don't think there were exceptions made for sportsmen ever (for basketball/football?), nobody here really cares about sports. :D
I can think of non-Jewish athletes who obtained Israeli citizenship, such as Derrick Sharp, Hanna Knyazyeva-Minenko and Donald Sanford. But they all had a much stronger connection to Israel than either Tobias or Tkachenko. Knyazyeva-Minenko may have converted to Judaism; I'm not sure. She is definitely fluent Hebrew, and the only senior Israeli skater who can say the same is Krasnopolski (plus Tsoglin and Ichilov in juniors).
 

3T3T

Well-Known Member
Messages
179
That’s really disappointing for Tobias/Tkachenko. I really like their skating, they definitely would have been pushing for a top 10 in the Olympics? I’m not sure what Zoueva would have done for them but they did well under Igor.

I wonder on what grounds he was refused? I assumed it would be a formality for him. In an article I read Tobias said he had Jewish roots on his mother’s side. Courtesy of Wikipedia, his wife is Ksenia from Perm and they married in 2012, also he ended the partnership with Riazanova (I didn’t know that).
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,927
"Jewish roots on his mother's side" isn't necessarily enough. The Law of Return requires a Jewish grandparent. If his closest Jewish ancestor were one of his mother's grandfathers, for example, he would not qualify.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
10,062
It must be devastating to get such bad news. But I wonder why they withdrew from their GPs. Are they retiring? Or do they plan to sit out a year and start skating for another country in a year’s time? Tkachenko is 30, so he probably won’t stay for another Olympic cycle, and there would still be the issue of citizenship even if they switched countries.
 

DimaToe

Retired by Frank Carroll
Messages
5,512
Part of me hopes that T/T are sitting out the GP series to give other countries a shot to qualify for the Olympic team event. I was always under the impression that Ilia was in this partnership more for the financial benefits rather than the opportunity to be an Olympian so I doubt this is as big of a shock to them as it seems to be for some fans.
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
Part of me hopes that T/T are sitting out the GP series to give other countries a shot to qualify for the Olympic team event.
Having Israel in team event is one of the biggest papaBorya's dreams. Why would they do that to him when Israel is so close to obtain that?
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
17,118
Do Tankova/Zilberberg definitely have their citizenship sorted?
Zilberberg is an Israeli to begin with, Tankova is not good/rich enough to represent Israel without.

The residency thing would apply if Tkachenko was attempting to be an israeli through marriage. That didn't work at the time for Serov,.who married Rachel Lior, so am not sure why Tobias thought it would for Tkachenko...
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
17,118
Having Israel in team event is one of the biggest papaBorya's dreams. Why would they do that to him when Israel is so close to obtain that?
Because they don't work for papaBoria and have their own dreams and goals?
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
Because they don't work for papaBoria and have their own dreams and goals?
For example? You really think they plan to sit out this season to try with yet another country once again? Hm. Also, I'm pretty sure papaBorya helped them quite a lot, so it would be "normal" to pay back, this is what decent human beings do. Saying that any top Israeli skater "is not working for papaBorya" won't be completely true, you know.
 

PRlady

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,984
Zilberberg is an Israeli to begin with, Tankova is not good/rich enough to represent Israel without.

The residency thing would apply if Tkachenko was attempting to be an israeli through marriage. That didn't work at the time for Serov,.who married Rachel Lior, so am not sure why Tobias thought it would for Tkachenko...
If you're not Jewish, getting residency through a Jewish spouse is tough. Politically, the rabbis control the citizenship process-- I'm about to go see them myself - and intermarriage is not their favorite thing.
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
17,118
For example? You really think they plan to sit out this season to try with yet another country once again?
Retiring and not killing themseleves? Dunno, getting married (Tobias), having children.. that kind of stuff? Tkachenko had already retired once, why not again, if the Olympics are not an option?
Hm. Also, I'm pretty sure papaBorya helped them quite a lot, so it would be "normal" to pay back, this is what decent human beings do. Saying that any top Israeli skater "is not working for papaBorya" won't be completely true, you know.
Tobias? Seriously? PapaBoria might have helped them with the paperwork and might have done all he could for Tkachenko's citizenship (and I truly believe he indeed did), but I fail to see how would papaBoria pay Tobias a salary :lol:.

If you're not Jewish, getting residency through a Jewish spouse is tough. Politically, the rabbis control the citizenship process-- I'm about to go see them myself - and intermarriage is not their favorite thing.
I would guess that's where Tkachenko's citizenship failed. The same as Serov's at the time.
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
17,118
lol, am disappointed - my prediction was that Tobias would team up with Zilberberg for the Olympics.
 

kwanfan1818

I <3 Kozuka
Messages
32,609
Part of me hopes that T/T are sitting out the GP series to give other countries a shot to qualify for the Olympic team event.
There are only three countries in the race for two spots (point totals from Wikipedia, after IdF)
1.
Israel 1015 506 1521
2.
South Korea 1064 333 1397 (-124)
3.
Australia 842 478 1320 (-199)

For both South Korea and Australia to bypass Israel, assuming that Samohin isn't going to bypass Bychenko's bronze in a field with Chen, Jin, Voronov, and Rippon,
  • Choi and Cha would have had to have been replaced by skaters who could earn a total of 124 incremental points over the 225 and 108 points earned in JGP.
    • As @seabm7 noted in another thread, a Korean Ladies skater placing 6-8 would lose points from Korea's 1397, because any GP/GPF points trump JPG points.
  • Kerry and Craine would have had to have been invited to SA as replacements, earning a total of 76 incremental points over the Men's 109 plus any Ladies points to bypass South Korea or 199 to pass Israel. (Australia didn't have a Ladies skater earning points at JGP, lovely as their junior Lady is.)
Craine or Kerry earning any points, ie, placing 8th or above were either to have been named replacements, would have knocked out South Korea, the hosts, by earning 76 or more points.

Both were highly unlikely to have knocked Israel to 11th in the TE standings.
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
Tobias? Seriously? PapaBoria might have helped them with the paperwork and might have done all he could for Tkachenko's citizenship (and I truly believe he indeed did), but I fail to see how would papaBoria pay Tobias a salary :lol:.
"Working for" != "getting paid". So you basically answered your question yourself.
So you say it was like this: till the very beginning of their first GP event they still hoped that Tkachenko will get Israeli citizenship, although not clear why exactly, when they understood this won't happen (surprise, surprise), Tobias decided to get pregnant, urgently, hence they WD, because they absolutely couldn't participate in GP and try to qualify team IL. Well, maybe, maybe, who knows. :D

P.S. But then, based on the analysis above, they probably understood there is no need as Israel is already in. Might be the case.
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
17,118
"Working for" != "getting paid". So you basically answered your question yourself.
I'd think working for === getting paid, otherwise it's called volunteering.
So you say it was like this: till the very beginning of their first GP event
No. I have no idea till when they were training or perhaps still do. AFAIK you have their emails - why not ask?
 

reut

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,348
I'd think working for === getting paid, otherwise it's called volunteering.
Well, no. What I meant: papaBorya helped them a lot, decent human being will help back in such situation. And I'm sure you know well that I meant that. :)
But maybe there was no need in their GP anyways, based on the calculations above.

No. I have no idea till when they were training or perhaps still do. AFAIK you have their emails - why not ask?
I may even ask personally people involved, but for sure I won't publish those answers here. :D
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
10,062
For example? You really think they plan to sit out this season to try with yet another country once again? Hm. Also, I'm pretty sure papaBorya helped them quite a lot, so it would be "normal" to pay back, this is what decent human beings do. Saying that any top Israeli skater "is not working for papaBorya" won't be completely true, you know.
Quite honestly, I don’t know what they plan, but his age suggests that he is getting towards the end of his career. There are not many dancers who are over 30. With Riazanova he was 6th, 5th, 4th and 5th at the Europeans and 9th and 11th at worlds. Leaving her and pairing up with Tobias and then placing 10th and 4th at the Europeans and 12th and 12th at worlds - it is pretty clear that he had better results with Riazanova. So the only motivation I can see he would have to leave the better partner and pair up with much worse partner would be to make sure he is on the team to Olympics. And that was now taken from him. his future plan depends how much he feels he has the motivation abd stamina for the next four years, and whether they can find any way to ensure that he will have the citizenship for the next Olympics.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information