Israeli Skating News

MsZem

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So the only motivation I can see he would have to leave the better partner and pair up with much worse partner would be to make sure he is on the team to Olympics. And that was now taken from him.
It was not "taken from him". He is not an Israeli citizen, and the criteria for Israeli citizenship are pretty clear, so I'm not sure why either of them thought this would work. @TAHbKA has been saying that Tobias would have to go with Zilberberg for a while now ;)

I hope all the skaters will work on basic K&C stuff in Hebrew in advance of the Olympics.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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10,078
Well, no. What I meant: papaBorya helped them a lot, decent human being will help back in such situation. And I'm sure you know well that I meant that. :)
But maybe there was no need in their GP anyways, based on the calculations above.
Wow, you have a weird sense of humour. Do you really think they owe anything to Israel or papa Borya? “Decent human beings would help...” as I see it, they paid back enough for the help they received. Israel has the Olympic spot. Expecting any extra help from them is unreasonable. Why they should feel any obligation to help Israel if Israel did not consider them worthy enough to give Tkachenko citizenship? You can’t flip someone off while telling them ‘oh, by the way, I still need your help and if you are decent human beings, you will help me’.
 

reut

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1,348
Especially loved the "worthy enough" part. No idea how you can make any conclusion about my sense of humour, but we're not talking about me here.
Appears that what they did is more than enough for Israel, so all good.
 

PRlady

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34,987
It's highly unlikely that the citizenship issue wouldn't have been considered at the outset. Like most countries, Israel makes it easy for its own tribe and hard for everyone else. I can't imagine they were shocked to discover he didn't qualify.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

Playing ping pong with balls of chocolate jam
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For example? You really think they plan to sit out this season to try with yet another country once again? Hm. Also, I'm pretty sure papaBorya helped them quite a lot, so it would be "normal" to pay back, this is what decent human beings do. Saying that any top Israeli skater "is not working for papaBorya" won't be completely true, you know.
Well, to make things easier, their results don't really matter, Israel has qualified. So either way, papaBorya got his wish.

I wonder, though, whether T/T were somehow kept under the illusion by the Fed that he might get the citizenship.
 

reut

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I wonder, though, whether T/T were somehow kept under the illusion by the Fed that he might get the citizenship.
LOL, by believing that papaBorya is almighty? By not being able to check the laws themselves? By hoping that Tkachenko will - suddenly - find some Jewish grandpa? (By hoping to win Worlds and by this "making" Israel to understand how "worthy enough" they are?)

What is not clear for me, did they learn it only now? Probably, yes. Because otherwise I don't see any reason for them to "hold" someone else's place for GP and then WD at the last minute (and why would they move to Zueva if they didn't plan to compete?).
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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1. IDK what they were told and why they had an illusion he might get the citizenship, but those sudden withdraws without any explanations suggest they are passing the message of "screw you". Normally people people who are on good terms with their "bosses" are less middle-finger-upon-quitting.
2. By the time they withdrew Israel hasn't yet secured the team event spot, so they've done it fully aware this step might cost.
3. Israel didn't give out the GP spots, suggesting papa Borya was under impression T/T would show up eventually, which they didn't, and no explanation was given either.

All that sounds to me like there's some bad blood between T/T and the federation. I am not aware of any issue that might have caused that apart from the citizenship issue, so my assumption for now that they felt cheated giving Israel the spots in the ice-dancing and the team event, and then being denied the ticket to the Olympics. Given that people in the federation knew well ahead Tkachenko is unlikely to obtain the citizenship (I heard it from two sources 2 seasons ago already), and yet T/T seemingly weren't aware of it, I would think the source of their illusion came from the federation in whatever form.

I wonder whether they have prepared the programs and trained for the season, and whether they will show up for the Europeans/Worlds if they did. If they did, then it sounds rather silly to throw away all the investment, even if they don't want to have anything with the Israeli Fed; and if they didn't, then their withdrawal should have been known in the summer already, and then it's even more baffling why no one has cleared the GP spots.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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@reut , BTW, are you planning to show up for the Nats? I would really like to, but it's physically impossible for me given the day/time - the federation did a fantastic job removing any possibility for getting some crowd.
 

Dobre

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it's even more baffling why no one has cleared the GP spots.
No idea of the real reason why Tobias & Tkachenko withdrew at the last minute from both events.

But could it not be the Federation that actually didn't want to withdraw T&T until the last minute? I know sometimes with Denis Ten, he has let his own Federation know in advance but Kazakhstan doesn't remove him from the list for a competition until much later.

Korea was in competition with Israel for a team spot. And Korea had a dance team on the sub list all season. The highest ranked dance team without a single invite. Min & Gamelin might have been invited to fill T&T's place at an event. (It isn't likely they would have finished top 8 at NHK or SA, but it might have given Israel pause from removing T&T from the list early in the season).
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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Hm, I didn't think about it. Sounds like something papa Borya might have done.

Said that, S.Korea is not in competition with Israel as both have qualified, Australia is, and they are not competing in ice-dance, so there wasn't any point holding the SA spot. It somehow(very loosely) made sense for Cup of China though.
 

Dobre

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Hm, I didn't think about it. Sounds like something papa Borya might have done.

Said that, S.Korea is not in competition with Israel as both have qualified, Australia is, and they are not competing in ice-dance, so there wasn't any point holding the SA spot. It somehow(very loosely) made sense for Cup of China though.
And I think Bychenko's two skates clinched it before SA. Though, there were three spots that opened in the men's event, and one very easily could have gone to Brendan Kerry. So I suppose it is possible that Israel was guarding its team interests. Likewise, it is possible that Korea pulled Dabin Choi to make certain they didn't lose the JGP points earned by Eunsoo. Seems unlikely to have made a difference to us. But four years of work and planning and funding went into all these teams on the bubble. I would not blame these countries for guarding every point for that team qualification.
 

reut

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@reut , BTW, are you planning to show up for the Nats? I would really like to, but it's physically impossible for me given the day/time - the federation did a fantastic job removing any possibility for getting some crowd.
Question is to my boss... Considering we have a "forced shutdown" for Hanukkah a week afterwards chances are slim.
 

reut

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1. IDK what they were told and why they had an illusion he might get the citizenship, but those sudden withdraws without any explanations suggest they are passing the message of "screw you". Normally people people who are on good terms with their "bosses" are less middle-finger-upon-quitting.
2. By the time they withdrew Israel hasn't yet secured the team event spot, so they've done it fully aware this step might cost.
3. Israel didn't give out the GP spots, suggesting papa Borya was under impression T/T would show up eventually, which they didn't, and no explanation was given either.

All that sounds to me like there's some bad blood between T/T and the federation. I am not aware of any issue that might have caused that apart from the citizenship issue, so my assumption for now that they felt cheated giving Israel the spots in the ice-dancing and the team event, and then being denied the ticket to the Olympics. Given that people in the federation knew well ahead Tkachenko is unlikely to obtain the citizenship (I heard it from two sources 2 seasons ago already), and yet T/T seemingly weren't aware of it, I would think the source of their illusion came from the federation in whatever form.

I wonder whether they have prepared the programs and trained for the season, and whether they will show up for the Europeans/Worlds if they did. If they did, then it sounds rather silly to throw away all the investment, even if they don't want to have anything with the Israeli Fed; and if they didn't, then their withdrawal should have been known in the summer already, and then it's even more baffling why no one has cleared the GP spots.
Sounds logical except it's hard for me to believe they were so naive. Unlike with Lithuania, they knew the situation in Israel and had tons of sources to check how good their chances are with Tkachenko's citizenship. And, yes, I wondered about programs and their move to Zueva, made no sense if Tobias suddenly decided she wants to invest in her family and its growth. I don't think they will show up for Euros.
 

reut

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Samohin update: according to the Israeli Olympic Committee (in Hebrew), he was treated for the dislocated shoulder and will undergo physical therapy. Samohin is expected to be back in training in about a week.
Thanks!
They also wrote that the competition was in New York...
They also wrote that his points in this GP were important to get Israel to the team event which we already know is not correct...
I hope I can trust at least info about Daniel and his injury.
 

MsZem

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Thanks!
They also wrote that the competition was in New York...
They also wrote that his points in this GP were important to get Israel to the team event which we already know is not correct...
I hope I can trust at least info about Daniel and his injury.
Lake Placid is in New York. I assume that they would pay more attention to getting the news about the injury right than to explaining Olympic qualifying...
 

reut

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I'd expect them to write במדינת ניו יורק (the state of New York) then. :) I guess they didn't care. And, yes, hope injury info is indeed more important to be accurate with (in an ideal world any info you post should be accurate if you want to be trusted as a source).
 

MsZem

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I'd expect them to write במדינת ניו יורק (the state of New York) then. :) I guess they didn't care. And, yes, hope injury info is indeed more important to be accurate with (in an ideal world any info you post should be accurate if you want to be trusted as a source).
It's not standard to refer to New York State, and I've seen articles in the Israeli media that used the full form and others that didn't.

Ynet is reporting that Samohin is expected to compete at Nationals next month. But I refuse to link to a story whose headline invites us to watch an Israeli skater dislocate his shoulder. Ynet can be so disgusting.
 

barbarafan

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Samohin update: according to the Israeli Olympic Committee (in Hebrew), he was treated for the dislocated shoulder and will undergo physical therapy. Samohin is expected to be back in training in about a week.
Hope they did a c-scan as well. In the case of Han Yan and myself (so I am figuring common) there was also a break in the bone which holds the shoulder in. Mine was dislocated 3 times in 18 hrs. Han Yan dislocated it again within a week as soon as first practice on ice. This does not show in a regular xray.
 

reut

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Talking about Nationals, dates are: December 12-13 + on 14th they will have some kind of "Olympic send off".
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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Hey, at least he has made the news!

It's too bad figure skating is not bloody enough, if people broke limbs real time, it might have finally found some interest with the general public!
 

reut

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Ynet is reporting that Samohin is expected to compete at Nationals next month. But I refuse to link to a story whose headline invites us to watch an Israeli skater dislocate his shoulder. Ynet can be so disgusting.
Of course, I had to check. And, yes, they literally invite to watch it, in their headline. Disgusting.
 

essence_of_soy

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Poor Daniel Samohin. I am so relieved to hear he will be okay. That dislocation was awful to watch.

Men's skating is ridiculous right now. So many injuries this season. It has to stop.

The sport is pushing the guys to do multiple quads, and when they splat, their performance level drops to zero.
 

rfisher

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Danny_Salmon is back to happy posting on Instagram. There's no reason to think he won't be ready to skate by nationals, and certainly for Europeans and the Olympics. That was just an unfortunate fall, but while painful, a dislocated shoulder is actually easy to fix. He's probably a little sore today, but otherwise he should be fine. Much simpler fix than torn ligaments in his ankles.
 

kwanfan1818

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2. By the time they withdrew Israel hasn't yet secured the team event spot, so they've done it fully aware this step might cost.
ISR was 9th of the countries that had qualified in three individual events going into SA, 201 points above AUS and 124 points above KOR. Both AUS and KOR would have had to have earned enough WS points to knock out ISR.

Mathematically, some combination of Kerry getting incremental points over the 108 AUS got in Men's JGP and Craine could have passed ISR, and min Min/Gamelin replacing T/T and placing 8th or above, then ISR could have been knocked out of the TE.

So I suppose it is possible that Israel was guarding its team interests. Likewise, it is possible that Korea pulled Dabin Choi to make certain they didn't lose the JGP points earned by Eunsoo.
I think this is what they did: Choi would have needed to have been 6th or above to not lose points.

And I think the timing of the WD's and not replacing Choi, especially with Craine, as well as not bringing back Kerry from Moscow, was to protect KOR from AUS, however long the odds, based on their first GP's. With no AUS skaters at SA, had Min/Gamelin replaced T/T at the last minute, even if they placed 8th or above and earned WS pt, they might have knocked ISR to 10th, but not out. 8th would have been a big stretch for M/G, but maybe better safe than sorry.

Given that people in the federation knew well ahead Tkachenko is unlikely to obtain the citizenship (I heard it from two sources 2 seasons ago already), and yet T/T seemingly weren't aware of it, I would think the source of their illusion came from the federation in whatever form.
The odd thing is I would have thought Tobias' father would have had his lawyers on this and that they would have not simply relied on Chait's word.
 

reut

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The odd thing is I would have thought Tobias' father would have had his lawyers on this and that they would have not simply relied on Chait's word.
This.

Oft 1: I have degree in Maths, like seriously, and I'm lost with all the team event calculations, thank you for doing this for us!
Oft 2: Love your signature ;)
 

Carolla5501

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It's highly unlikely that the citizenship issue wouldn't have been considered at the outset. Like most countries, Israel makes it easy for its own tribe and hard for everyone else. I can't imagine they were shocked to discover he didn't qualify.
I Can, she's only been a citizen of 4 countries. Apparently she thinks it's easy to country swap. I expect they thought that the prestige of having an Olympic dance team would help. Apparently it didn't
 

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