IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

[skatepixie]

OAR will remain in place for closing ceremonies. Russia will not be awarded any medals from these games.

I still maintain they should not have been allowed to compete in any team events, including figure skating. If they were clean, I have no problem with them competing as independent athletes, but it should be been "Independent Olympic Athletes" or whatever they did with India last time.

That's sad. I would have liked to see Russia FINALLY get a hockey gold as Russia, but I guess it isn't to be.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Neither did any of the athletes who doped Russians deprived of their winning moments.

Here is my problem with the entire thing. Chinese doped. East Germans doped. Americans doped. And how about the "medically approved" drugs athletes take: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-clouded-by-asthma-drug-ethics-idUSKBN1EV0EC. Why are the Russians the only ones punished? State sponsored excuse is just that - an excuse. It's equally state sponsored in China, and was not just sponsored by mandated in East Germany.

 

[ballettmaus]

Here is my problem with the entire thing. Chinese doped. East Germans doped. Americans doped. And how about the "medically approved" drugs athletes take: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-clouded-by-asthma-drug-ethics-idUSKBN1EV0EC. Why are the Russians the only ones punished? State sponsored excuse is just that - an excuse. It's equally state sponsored in China, and was not just sponsored by mandated in East Germany.

My guess is that the IOC just couldn't ignore Russia's doping anymore. It's probably all about the image: pretend state-sponsored doping doesn't happen until there's a whistle blower then look like you're doing something to punish the country.
Since there aren't any other whistle blowers, they pretend everyone else is good to go because anything else would be too much of a scandal and turn people off.

Is that right? No. And it won't help clean up the sport. On the other hand, I don't think they want to clean up the sport in the first place. Sponsors want action, you get action in sport with record breaking results and you're the most likely to get those with doping. I actually believe that officials knew about the doping that went on during the Tour de France and probably still goes on. The more spectacular the results, the more people watch, the more money will be made. I don't believe the IOC is any different.

I think that they made an example out of Russia. But I also think that it was right. They shouldn't not have punished Russia, they should punish everyone else as well.

 

[Mayra]

I thought it as pretty awesome to hear the Russian hockey players sing the Russian national anthem while the olympic anthem played.

 

[Judy]

My guess is that the IOC just couldn't ignore Russia's doping anymore. It's probably all about the image: pretend state-sponsored doping doesn't happen until there's a whistle blower then look like you're doing something to punish the country.
Since there aren't any other whistle blowers, they pretend everyone else is good to go because anything else would be too much of a scandal and turn people off.

Is that right? No. And it won't help clean up the sport. On the other hand, I don't think they want to clean up the sport in the first place. Sponsors want action, you get action in sport with record breaking results and you're the most likely to get those with doping. I actually believe that officials knew about the doping that went on during the Tour de France and probably still goes on. The more spectacular the results, the more people watch, the more money will be made. I don't believe the IOC is any different.

I think that they made an example out of Russia. But I also think that it was right. They shouldn't not have punished Russia, they should punish everyone else as well.

It’s also a case of having enough evidence to prove it though. You have a country forcing their athletes to dope. In my opinion they should have been banned entirely from the Olympics.

 

[skatingguy]

Russian spies hacked the Olympics and tried to make it look like North Korea did it, U.S. officials say

https://www.washingtonpost.com/?utm_term=.154c84f2d797

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s also a case of having enough evidence to prove it though. You have a country forcing their athletes to dope. In my opinion they should have been banned entirely from the Olympics.

Russia should have been separated from its government and all government officials banned and no hosting of events allowed in which all athletes have to deal with government rules in one way or another. Russia is not its government! Russia has had so many different types of governments so a government does not make a country! That’s what they were all saying about North Korea! But yet ban Russians for government actions. Ioc didn’t punish one East German ever!!!

 

[Twilight1]

^ State doping wouldn't happen unless athletes took the drugs. So it goes beyond just the government. It was coaches, athletes and people behind the scenes who aided and abetted and others who were complicit.

And discussing East Germany before drug testing and real repercussions were in affect is just attempting to deflect from the here and now issue.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

^ State doping wouldn't happen unless athletes took the drugs. So it goes beyond just the government. It was coaches, athletes and people behind the scenes who aided and abetted and others who were complicit.

And discussing East Germany before drug testing and real repercussions were in affect is just attempting to deflect from the here and now issue.

How about discussing the Chinese? Or the Norwegians and their "approved asthma medication"? Lets start where it IS relevant. Turning the blind eye to literally everyone else, while punishing the Russians, is the antithesis of democracy and fairness.

 

[Twilight1]

Have you heard of exercise induced asthma in cold climates? I have these games and it is actually quite common in northern countries with extreme cold weather and their athletes. So yes it is reasonable to expect Norwegian athletes to have higher rates of asthma medication. (Look it up if you don't believe me )

Have you ever exercised in -30 wind chill weather? I tried running for the bus once in Thunder Bay... thought I was breathing glass it was so painful. Couldn't imagine the impact on their lungs doing it in that weather daily. (and this impacts more than just Norwegians btw)

And when a whistleblower or proof comes forward on China, my position still stands.

 

[Twilight1]

Just a snippet on what I discussed above...

"Hyperpnoea with cold dry air represents a significant environmental stress to airways and it has been previously reported that exposure to cold air cause parasympathetic stimulation of airways, contributing to EIB.[30] It has been observed that during one competitive winter season, adolescent cross-country skiers develop signs of inflammation (lymphoid follicles and deposition of tenascin) in their bronchial biopsies.[31]"

Source- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/all.13224/full

 

[caseyedwards]

^ State doping wouldn't happen unless athletes took the drugs. So it goes beyond just the government. It was coaches, athletes and people behind the scenes who aided and abetted and others who were complicit.

And discussing East Germany before drug testing and real repercussions were in affect is just attempting to deflect from the here and now issue.

You can’t ignore the pressure of a totalitarian regime. You can’t say something is state sponsored and ignore the power of the state to punish athletes who disobey what is really doping law. Unwritten as it may be. Fine - I will forget East Germany: but not willing to ignore what disobeying totalitarian regime might mean. Especially to a Russian. Killing of many journalists. Nuclear poisoning’s.

 

[Twilight1]

You can’t ignore the pressure of a totalitarian regime. You can’t say something is state sponsored and ignore the power of the state to punish athletes who disobey what is really doping law. Unwritten as it may be. Fine - I will forget East Germany: but not willing to ignore what disobeying totalitarian regime might mean. Especially to a Russian. Killing of many journalists. Nuclear poisoning’s.

Which coincides with earlier posts from me.

Just because corruption is okay and rampant in politics and sport in Russia, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to put up with their crap nor should we be okay with it.

Complacency has occured long enough and inaction has made this situation far worse that it ever should have been.

 

[caseyedwards]

Which coincides with earlier posts from me.

Just because corruption is okay and rampant in politics and sport in Russia, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to put up with their crap nor should we be okay with it.

Complacency has occured long enough and inaction has made this situation far worse that it ever should have been.

So this is totally beyond sports. This is ioc trying to totally reform Russian society top to bottom. Maybe even try to remove putin from power so sports can function cleanly.

 

[Twilight1]

No it is about clean sports that just happens to involve the Russian government. They are enmeshed together.

And where the flock did it become about overthrowing Putin

 

[caseyedwards]

No it is about clean sports that just happens to involve the Russian government. They are enmeshed together.

So a long time ago I posted that it would be great if ioc pushed Russia to totally abolish so much involvement they have in sports! Like having government ministers also be heads of football or hockey. A total privatization of the sports federations. Walls put up between federations and the governments. Government can give money to sports but can’t have any involvement in running of sports. The fact that the government is in charge of all sports and results in sports become measures of government performance inspired the state sponsored doping. No wins in sports means government is doing bad and the the athletes are then tools of government. And if you disobey maybe you die.

 

[Vagabond]

She could fight it with two words: Justin Gatlin.

She could have, but instead she was busy posting a video of herself in an I Don't Do Doping sweatshirt to social media instead, so she lost her chance.

 

[skatingguy]

How about discussing the Chinese?

The Chinese had a state sponsored doping scheme in the '90's, but the evidence of it is circumstantial. It is based on the records set by Chinese athletes, particularly in swimming, and athletics, and that the athletes competed for a year or two and then disappeared. There has never been hard evidence of the doping scheme, and never anything approaching the evidence that has been complied against the Russians. Then there is also the Statute of Limitations which is 8 years, which means that the doping offenses of the Chinese in the '90's cannot be punished now.

Or the Norwegians and their "approved asthma medication"?

The Norwegian use of asthma medication in Cross-Country Skiing has been discussed in this thread, and others. Athletes have been banned for its use, and the continued use will probably lead to changes in the allowable limits of these drugs which will make them banned substances.

Lets start where it IS relevant. Turning the blind eye to literally everyone else, while punishing the Russians, is the antithesis of democracy and fairness.

No one is turning a blind eye to the cheating of others, but no one else has recently violated the anti-doping rules as frequently or as blatantly as the Russians. The retesting of samples from the 2008 & 2012 Summer Olympics resulted in positive tests for athletes from many countries, but Russia has led the way. Russia, more than any other country at the moment, has an cultural issue around doping and ignoring it does a disservice to the rest of the athletes, as well as the Russian athletes themselves. If you choose to look at that as picking on the Russians that is your choice.

 

[Twilight1]

You can't push Russia to do anything about doping if they deny it even occurs and they keep playing the victim card to get out of jail free from competition.

Hence why this ban is a step in the right direction. They have to do something internally.

 

[MacMadame]

It's equally state sponsored in China, and was not just sponsored by mandated in East Germany.

I think it's the ultimate in whataboutism if you have to bring in a country that doesn't even exist anymore to try to prove your point.

As for China, if evidence comes to light that they are engaging in state-sponsored doping and cover-up of said doping, I hope the IOC does at least as much as it did to Russia for them. (Since I consider what they did to Russia to be a slap on the wrist, I actually hope they do more. Or maybe just different?)

No one is turning a blind eye to the cheating of others, but no one else has recently violated the anti-doping rules as frequently or as blatantly as the Russians. The retesting of samples from the 2008 & 2012 Summer Olympics resulted in positive tests for athletes from many countries, but Russia has led the way. Russia, more than any other country at the moment, has an cultural issue around doping and ignoring it does a disservice to the rest of the athletes, as well as the Russian athletes themselves. If you choose to look at that as picking on the Russians that is your choice.

I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye but I'm not sure I agree with the rest of it. I think Russia was just unlucky in that they had a whistleblower. I do see certain sports where "everyone" is doping and there are certainly programs within other countries that are hotbeds of doping. Maybe Russia is the only country, but if an entire sport has a culture of doping, I don't consider that any better and perhaps it's actually worse.

Now that the IOC has set this precedent with Russia that they can ban/not invite athletes from their country unless they can prove they're clean, I am wondering if they should do the same if they find widespread doping within a particular training program. Say there is one Track and Field center in one state that it turns out the majority of athletes were doping and the program conspired to cover it up. If that is discovered, then I think all athletes in the program should have to jump through extra hoops to prove they are clean. It doesn't have to be an entire country doing it for the IOC to act.

I also hope that TPTB are keeping a watchful eye on China with the next Winter Olympics being Beijing. I think they are now in the same position that Russia was in for Sochi and they are also in a position to have a state-sponsored doping program because the state runs their Olympic programs. Hopefully, the IOC and others will be taking steps to prevent what happened in Sochi and not just putting their heads in the sand and putting them in the position of mopping up afterward instead.

 

[soogar]

I wonder if they are going to ban China at its own Olympics then? The Chinese have their own state sponsored program.

http://www.dw.com/en/systematic-dop...ic-games-revealed-by-former-doctor/a-41065227

 

[skatingguy]

I wonder if they are going to ban China at its own Olympics then? The Chinese have their own state sponsored program.

http://www.dw.com/en/systematic-dop...ic-games-revealed-by-former-doctor/a-41065227

The thing is that this allegation goes back to the '80's and '90's. The statute of limitations has passed so the results can't be adjusted even if hard evidence of doping was to emerge. We would need evidence of a doping system currently operating to see sanctions against the Chinese Olympic Committee.

 

[skatingguy]

I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye but I'm not sure I agree with the rest of it. I think Russia was just unlucky in that they had a whistleblower. I do see certain sports where "everyone" is doping and there are certainly programs within other countries that are hotbeds of doping. Maybe Russia is the only country, but if an entire sport has a culture of doping, I don't consider that any better and perhaps it's actually worse.

The retesting of the 2008 & 2012 samples provides a pretty stark evidence of doping in Russia. Russia has had four times as many medals removed as the next highest countries in the Olympics.

Now that the IOC has set this precedent with Russia that they can ban/not invite athletes from their country unless they can prove they're clean, I am wondering if they should do the same if they find widespread doping within a particular training program. Say there is one Track and Field center in one state that it turns out the majority of athletes were doping and the program conspired to cover it up. If that is discovered, then I think all athletes in the program should have to jump through extra hoops to prove they are clean. It doesn't have to be an entire country doing it for the IOC to act.

In terms of sports, weightlifting and athletics have been the worst offenders and the issue in these sports have gone back decades. I think most people are familiar with the IAAF's banning of Russia from athletics events, again because the Russian team has been the worst offender. At the recent weightlifting World Championships nine countries were banned, so there's also an effort to clean up that sport as well. We have to keep in mind that though doping tests at the Olympics go back decades, it's really only since 2000 that we've had a collective doping agency, WADA, that attempts to codify what doping is, how athletes should be tested, and tracks doping across all competitions. If you look at the number of athletes that have been caught at the Olympics for doping it increases beginning in 2000, particularly catching medalists. It makes it look like doping has gotten worse in recent years, but I think the reality is that more people are getting caught, and were starting to get a more complete picture of extent of the doping issue.

I also hope that TPTB are keeping a watchful eye on China with the next Winter Olympics being Beijing. I think they are now in the same position that Russia was in for Sochi and they are also in a position to have a state-sponsored doping program because the state runs their Olympic programs. Hopefully, the IOC and others will be taking steps to prevent what happened in Sochi and not just putting their heads in the sand and putting them in the position of mopping up afterward instead.

Yes that is concerning.

 

[Marymas]

Russians couldnt resist doping in 2018 Olympics as well. What a shame and embarassment they’re portraying. Russians shouldve been banned from Pyeongchang. Their medal standings show theyre way at the bottom. Compared that to the recent Olympics where they were always and near top 5.

 

[MacMadame]

Russia has had four times as many medals removed as the next highest countries in the Olympics.

But it's a small sample size so anything could have skewed the results. Like maybe they earned 4x as many medals...

At the recent weightlifting World Championships nine countries were banned, so there's also an effort to clean up that sport as well.

This is what I mean about it not just being Russia.

Their medal standings show theyre way at the bottom. Compared that to the recent Olympics where they were always and near top 5.

But someone could say that their best athletes were singled out just to get rid of the competition (since we still don't know why certain skaters were not invited) and not because they were doping.

 

[misskarne]

As for China, if evidence comes to light that they are engaging in state-sponsored doping and cover-up of said doping, I hope the IOC does at least as much as it did to Russia for them. (Since I consider what they did to Russia to be a slap on the wrist, I actually hope they do more. Or maybe just different?)

I think there's already some signs. Sun Yang, for example, the swimmer. Tested positive to a prohibited substance, was given a soft three-month suspension (that ended conveniently in time for the National swimming trials) and China didn't even tell WADA until afterwards.

I'm sorry, but whatever way you slice it, that deserved some sanctions. They openly admitted to covering up a positive test for an athlete so they could give him a soft "ban". What else are they doing behind the scenes?

 

[Sylvia]

IOC press release today: https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-statement-2018-02-28

The final notification of all remaining test results from the Olympic Athlete from Russia (OAR) delegation has been received from the Doping-Free Sport Unit (DFSU).

The IOC can confirm that all the remaining results are negative.

Therefore, as stated in the Executive Board decision of 25th February the suspension of the Russian Olympic Committee is automatically lifted with immediate effect.

Associated Press article: Russia Reinstated Into Olympic Movement After Doping Scandal

President Vladimir Putin hailed the move during a Kremlin award ceremony for Olympic athletes, saying "we must turn this page."
"We must draw relevant conclusions for ourselves, but I hope that international organizations also will eventually understand that sports must be kept away from problems unrelated to it," he added.
The decision by the International Olympic Committee appears to be an attempt to draw a line under the state-concocted doping scandal that tarnished the 2014 Olympics in Sochi.
The IOC allowed more than 160 athletes it determined were clean to compete in Sochi as "Olympic Athletes from Russia" in Pyeongchang earlier this month with a prohibition on the national anthem or flag in venues.
"You can take away any attributes, but you can't take away our character, and you have proven it with your performance," Putin said after giving state awards to Olympic athletes in the Kremlin. "It has filled us all a sense of pride."

"We put all our souls into that, we won those medals for our Mortheland," figure skater Yevgenia Medvedeva who won Olympic silver, said at the Kremlin award ceremony.

 

[love_skate2011]

I

I also hope that TPTB are keeping a watchful eye on China with the next Winter Olympics being Beijing. I think they are now in the same position that Russia was in for Sochi and they are also in a position to have a state-sponsored doping program because the state runs their Olympic programs. Hopefully, the IOC and others will be taking steps to prevent what happened in Sochi and not just putting their heads in the sand and putting them in the position of mopping up afterward instead.

nah, China is much more powerful and richer. They can talk moneywise and have economic influence. No way will they even ban China if there is state sponsored doping evidence. Although its clear China is engage in even bigger manipulations.

China is the Most Powerful country of the 21st century, They have the EU and US by the balls, WADA would be shitting if they ever do such a thing.

 

[DELTA]

Russian spies hacked the Olympics and tried to make it look like North Korea did it, U.S. officials say

https://www.washingtonpost.com/?utm_term=.154c84f2d797

With what purpose? Sounds like fake news to me

 

[skatingguy]

With what purpose? Sounds like fake news to me

Maybe just to disrupt the Olympics after the Russian Olympic Committee was banned. Remember the hacking of athlete medical files that happened during Rio in 2016. I can't remember where I was reading an article recently about hacking in Russia, and how highly hackers are thought of. The article discussed how in the early years following the collapse of the Soviet Union there were very few people who could operate a computer, and hackers helped many people with their new computers in the '90's and the hacker culture grew from there. There are large public competitions and the hackers were well thought of for the work they do.