Imamov's interview with Savchenko

Japanfan

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Sour grapes for what, she has won everything there is to win in the sport, why would she be jealous of a team that is yet to win an Olympic gold medal.
I was referring to her comment that S/H copied S/M. Though no one has mentioned that she was 'jealous' -rather just annoyed.
 

Messalina

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I was referring to her comment that S/H copied S/M. Though no one has mentioned that she was 'jealous' -rather just annoyed.
Sour grapes

- Disparagement of something that has proven unattainable

- Pretended disdain for something one does not or cannot have

- Denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired

Sour grapes is just not the right expression here. Granted, the question seemed intended to push Ajona's buttons, implying that a copycat program was considered "the best of all time," and her answer followed from that.

IMO, though there is a similarity in style of the two programs, their effect is completely different because the two pairs are so very different. When I'm watching the one program, the other program could not be farther from my mind.
 
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MAXSwagg

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Well S/M’s latter free skates remind me of PapCiz style, though not nearly as well done. Airy, flowing, ethereal. So If she wants to talk about “copying...”
 

marie1616

Member
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In an interview you said the Chinese pair that won the world title was copying you...
"No that's not true, it was interpreted wrong. The question itself was talking about this program being the greatest in the history of pair skating. And I said that I - that's just my opinion - didn't see something new because many pairs - including us - were skating in this style. I respect Sui Wenjing and Han Cong very much and of course they have their own "Pointe". That's why I said what I said. But as I said every couple has their own style, also Sui and Han."

from a German interview with Aljona... so no reason to be upset
 

muffinplus

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OK but the quote in Russian is very clear and leaves no room for interpretation... so is she saying she didn't say it?
 

wickedwitch

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A few things:
1) I love her
2) If she said S/H were copying her style, she's wrong
3) It's unsurprising that her coaching the Knierims didn't work out. I'm not saying that the Knierims were completely blameless, but it's not all on them as many were implying last year. She doesn't yet have the mindset to help a struggling pairs team. She knows what a great team looks like, but that's not remotely the same as getting a weaker team (who may have physical limitations she didn't) to improve. I think she could develop that skill -- and if she really puts her mind to it, I bet she will -- but she doesn't have it yet.
 

TAHbKA

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OK but the quote in Russian is very clear and leaves no room for interpretation... so is she saying she didn't say it?
There is a chance she didn't say it (I have no idea who Imamov is); there is a chance she said something that was wrongly interpreted by Imamov; there is a chance she said something that makes sense in German and sounds wrong in Russian (happens to me every now and then - for example if you tell a Russian you `took a bus' it means physically taking it, lifting it and moving somewhere. The Russians sit on a bus, not take it. Obviously I don't know German, so now idea whether it could be the case)
 

aftershocks

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Tempest in a teapot altogether. My suggestion is for fans on all sides to stop looking for shizz to get all bent out of shape about, please. Common sense should allow anyone to realize the first time that we were reading a translation, and that different interpretations and misunderstandings are possible with both the original query, the original response, and the English translation.

That this whole fan reaction kerfuffle led to Aliona being asked to clarify what was meant is rather OTT ridiculous. It's enough to make skaters refrain from giving interviews, or at the least to be more selective about who they give interviews to! :drama:
 

cs.berlin

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OK but the quote in Russian is very clear and leaves no room for interpretation... so is she saying she didn't say it?
Not that the objection is unjustified. But, No.1: When I saw S/H's freestyle for the first time, I thought "damn, what a fantastic thing! They do it now just like S/M: figure skating in a way that touches the heart. It arrived, finally!" But, No.2: a terminology like "copy" would never have occurred to me. But, No.3: she has expressed it in such a way (PS, in the interview in German was spoken of "copy" indeed) and is also of the opinion that she is not alone with this view. Yes and? Do some still have difficulties with the definition of personal opinion? I think it's all too human that the one who's been ****ed in a disgustingly unfair way (by a hostile chinese judge) needs some time to get over it. Some small-minded subjects don't seem to be able to classify it humanely, morally or even intellectually. Moreover, in view of a long interview with many interesting insights that this unique person is willing to give us, this hacking around on a single statement is simply shameful and unworthy of a "Great Skate Debate".

I am a little annoyed about this faux pas of backing down and relativizing, but, if the interwiewer had not immediately provoked her by suggesting that S/H had presented the best program in the history of pair skating, then an objective "I'm glad that S/H now prefer a similar style of art, as we do" would be been possible. However, that wasn't a good admission may be, but she isn't an angel too, but of course a person with strengths and weaknesses. If you think you are free of contradictions, throw the first stone and then we'll talk about you.
 
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aftershocks

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^^ Yep, your take, which is reasonable, but obviously also not without biases. None of us are perfect. And once again, yes Aliona is human and imperfect. And as a fs champion competitive athlete, she is mind-boggling badass determined and single-focused. Few humans on the planet compete and achieve at such a level, which has both rewards and drawbacks.

I take Aliona at face value and I admire her accomplishments and I'm in awe of her legacy. The moments and the memories she's given to this sport with her partners are special and rare. The fact that she's indeed human and fallible makes her athletic feats all the more remarkable.

...
1) I love her
2) If she said S/H were copying her style, she's wrong
3) It's unsurprising that her coaching the Knierims didn't work out. I'm not saying that the Knierims were completely blameless, but it's not all on them as many were implying last year...She doesn't yet have the mindset to help a struggling pairs team...
IMO, you are reaching. Whether or not you 'love' Aliona has little to do with the rest of your thoughts.

We don't know that Aliona claimed anything about S/H 'copying her style.' In fact, there's no indication she said that. If a question was framed to Aliona about S/H's recent fp, and Aliona responded in any way regarding their program having some similarity to her and Bruno's Olympic fp, so what!? S/H have their own skating style, which doesn't negate them copying ideas, moves, musical themes, and/ or program layout patterns of other successful teams. I would suggest everyone take a deep breath and get the heck over it already. Pairs teams, coaches, and choreographers are and have always been inspired by each other and by popular trends happening in all the fs disciplines, and in the larger global culture. That's how the sport evolves! :drama:

Aliona coaching the Knierims has nothing to do with this conversation, nor did I see it brought up in the interview. So what you are saying and thinking is in your own head. You were not involved in anything that transpired between the Knierims and Aliona. From all available evidence, their collaboration was a learning experience for all involved that garnered benefits for all involved, no matter what difficulties arose.

The Knierims are better skaters, and Aliona has learned a lot about the coaching process and about how she might wish to approach coaching in the future. It doesn't matter what any of us standing on the sidelines think about what happened. Apparently, all involved are still cordial, and have grown as a result of working together. The intentions were good on all sides and the overall results were beneficial, despite the coaching relationship not ultimately continuing for whatever reasons.
 
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Tinami Amori

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19,286
I'll try my translation of what Aliona said (i read the russian version, not english, so this is "brand new" from me).

Russian:
— Как вам произвольная китайцев в прошлом сезоне? Ее называют лучшей программой в истории пар.
— Я видела, неплохая программа. Но они откровенно пытаются скопировать наш стиль. И это не только мое мнение. Пара хорошая, но стоит, думаю, поискать что-то свое, а не заниматься копированием.

— Вам было обидно, когда увидели эту программу?
— Нет. Просто я не заметила для себя ничего нового и не понимала, чему все восхищаются.


English:
—What do you think (how can you evaluate) the FS programme of the Chinese Pair from last season? It's been called the best programme in the history of Pair Skating.
I saw it, it was not a bad programme. But they openly (clearly) trying to copy our style. And this is not just my opinion. They are a good Pair, but i think, it would be worth it for them to search for something of their own, instead of engaging in copying. (alt: i would advise them to seek a style of their own instead of copying).

—Were you offended (hurt, felt insulted), when you saw their programme?
No. I simply did not find anything innovative (new) in it, and could not understand why people were raving about it. (alt: I did not see anything exciting for myself in it, and did not get why everyone is so excited).
 

whiteskates

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I hope Aljona or any other skater won’t read all this bickering or at least just ignore it. If I were a skater and a sensitive person and read this bashing I would never give an interview again.
 

Japanfan

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23,428
English:
—What do you think (how can you evaluate) the FS programme of the Chinese Pair from last season? It's been called the best programme in the history of Pair Skating.
I saw it, it was not a bad programme. But they openly (clearly) trying to copy our style. And this is not just my opinion. They are a good Pair, but i think, it would be worth it for them to search for something of their own, instead of engaging in copying. (alt: i would advise them to seek a style of their own instead of copying).
Thanks, Tinami. It never occurred to me that S/H were trying to copy S/M. And for that matter, I don't think S/S have a particularly 'unique' style in the sense that we have always had athletic pairs, lyrical pairs, high flying pairs, and so on. Although each pair does have their own unique stamp and/or stylistic distinction.

In addition, S/H paired in 2007, when they were very young, and had had no previous experience in pairs, so also no style of their own. Their pairing really can't be compared to that of S/M. S/H would have developed at style together organically, rather than as the result of an intention to do so.

S/H were groomed for greatness at a young age and I'm sure no expenses were spared in terms of getting them the best choreographers and so on.

If anything, I think they would have been influenced by Chinese pairs. But their weren't a whole lot of distinguished Chinese pairs for they to use as 'models' in 2007. And their desire to have their own style was evident in their 'Turandot', which was meant to honor S/H. But the two Turandot are entirely different and distinctive programs.
 
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Mad for Skating

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I would not be surprised (although do not wish it upon her family) if she moves on to another relationship at some point, if she meets a man who suites her better.
1. You are being very rude.
2. Actually, I think Aljona and Liam make a beautiful couple. He seems to be the calm, steady, easygoing one and she seems to be the headstrong leader. They seem to balance each other out very nicely and judging from their Instagram posts, they seem very much in love. I can’t tell you if they will still be in love in 50 years, but it’s certainly not right to post such bold assumptions when you know little about the people. Unless you’re Aljona and Liam’s marriage counselor, you shouldn’t be publicly commenting on this.

While nobody held a candle in Aliona’s or Ingo’s bedrooms, the “former Soviets”, directly or indirectly, referred to Ingo/Aliona as a “couple”. They went to events, parties together, and apparently were less “restricted” in their behavior when “former Soviets” were around.

The relationship in Aliona-Ingo-Robin venture seemed to have similar dynamics as in Muhortova-Vasiliev-Transkov trio. The lady and the coach made all the decisions, and informed the guy – two against one.
So? There have been plenty of relationships between coaches and students in this sport. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but it’s hardly juicy gossip anymore.
 

bcash

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Really? I liked S/H's FS last season very much, but it didn't touch the magic of S/M's Olympic FS imo.
S/M’s Olympic FS was excellent. And I don’t agree with the hyperbole thrown at S/H’s LP last season. But I don’t see how Sui/Han are copying them. The programs did not feel alike, plus S/H have formed their own distinct look and performance style way before last season. Incidentally, S/H’s Olympic SP certainly had a lot more style than S/M’s faux-20s silliness. Savchenko sounded weirdly condescending there. Wonder what beef she has with S/H.
 
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bcash

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303
For what it’s worth, I’ve always felt that Joshua Farris represents To Build a Home to me. He used it for a beautiful exhibition before anyone even knew who P/C was.

Let’s not rewrite history here and pretend that one dance team invented music and figure skating. It’s incorrect and incredibly boring.
But he also didn’t win a World Championship and raised the profile of a particular aesthetic. I certainly see way more kinship between S/M’s final two LP’s to what P/C did, than between S/H and S/M, as she suggested in this interview.
 

Amantide

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When I think of Aliona, I think of Pina. That was a fantastic program.

When I think of Sui&Han, I think of Blues for Klook, Hallelujah and Bridge Over Troubled Water. Just sublime!
 

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