How Do You Actually Recognize Jumps?

[MAXSwagg]

Oh, I definitely know the edge is not deep.

Many skaters would flutz if they went that flat, but I have heard some say he can get away with it because of the narrowness of his hips; I have heard women tend to flutz more than men because of the mechanics of having wider hips.

See this:

Javi Lutz: https://imgur.com/OeZcyqA This is barely even a Lutz. More like a Lootz = Lutz/loop. And how do you even pre-rotate a Lutz??

Compared to these more pure Lutz jumps:

Yuna Kim: http://imgur.com/nOtzne5

Tuktamysheva: http://imgur.com/x9ztCbi

 

[bardtoob]

See this:

Javi Lutz: https://imgur.com/OeZcyqA

Compared to these more pure Lutz jumps:

Yuna Kim: http://imgur.com/nOtzne5

Tuktamysheva: http://imgur.com/x9ztCbi

You are right, that it is dodgy, but he does maintain contact with some of the outside edge until his skate leaves the ice, even if it is at the back end of the blade ... So it meets the definition of a lutz. The bigger concern is contact with any inside edge, of which there is none.

I agree with your examples of "purer" lutzes.

 

[MAXSwagg]

You are right, that it is dodgy, but he does maintain contact with some of the outside edge until his skate leaves the ice, even if it is at the back end of the blade ... So it meets the definition of a lutz. The bigger concern is contact with any inside, of which there is none.

I agree with your examples of "purer" lutzes.

Lol Well, for this example, he's barely even on any edge at all. Unless we're counting edges in mid-air now.

 

[Meoima]

You are right, that it is dodgy, but he does maintain contact with some of the outside edge until his skate leaves the ice, even if it is at the back end of the blade ... So it meets the definition of a lutz. The bigger concern is contact with any inside edge, of which there is none.
I agree with your examples of "purer" lutzes.

I do not even know what to call Javi's Lutz as a pure toe jump... But I can give it a pass because at least Javi does not use this technique to do 4Lz or 4F and gain huge score.

 

[bardtoob]

See this:

Javi Lutz: https://imgur.com/OeZcyqA This is barely even a Lutz. More like a Lootz = Lutz/loop. And how do you even pre-rotate a Lutz??

Compared to these more pure Lutz jumps:

Yuna Kim: http://imgur.com/nOtzne5

Tuktamysheva: http://imgur.com/x9ztCbi

You are right, that it is dodgy, but he does maintain contact with some of the outside edge until his skate leaves the ice, even if it is at the back end of the blade ... So it meets the definition of a lutz. The bigger concern is contact with any inside edge, of which there is none.

I agree with your examples of "purer" lutzes.

Lol Well, for this example, he's barely even on any edge at all. Unless we're counting edges in mid-air now.

@Aussie Willy what are your thoughts on @MAXSwagg 's example of Javi's Lutz. I think that @MAXSwagg does not like that Javi spends a little extra time on the toe pick.

 

[bardtoob]

But I can give it a pass because at least Javi does not use this technique to do 4Lz or 4F and gain huge score.

the most infamous Floop

 

[Meoima]

I understand how people recognize lips and flutzes (and underrotations) because they are generally done by skaters one doesn't like.

Even if the edge is unclear, look at the thigh gap and the upper body. Usually, with correct Flip, there is a weight shift from left side to right side. I can tell when skater Flutz by looking at the gap between their thighs.

 

[MAXSwagg]

@Aussie Willy what are your thoughts on @MAXSwagg 's example of Javi's Lutz. I think that @MAXSwagg does not like that Javi spends a little extra time on the toe pick.

That and the fact that almost 100% of the blade is off the ice, when it should be on the outside edge ON the ice from the preparation through the toe picking.

 

[bardtoob]

That and the fact that almost 100% of the blade is off the ice, when it should be on the outside edge ON the ice from the preparation through the toe picking.

My concern is the transfer of weight onto the whole right blade before leaving the ice.

 

[MAXSwagg]

My concern is the transfer of weight onto the whole right blade before leaving the ice.

Okay, I guess it still counts, even if the weight is transferred to at most 25% of the blade.

 

[bardtoob]

Okay, I guess it still counts, even if the weight is transferred to at most 25% of the blade.

Yep, the fact that there is weight transfer on the blade at all is problematic; he should only be using the right toe pick.

 

[bardtoob]

I will point out that I admire the strong position Nathan Chen takes when preparing his left leg for the 4F, with the left knee very deep and picking leg very far back so he has a lot of weight on the left leg.

 

[Meoima]

I will point out that I admire the strong position Nathan Chen takes when preparing his left leg for the 4F, with the left knee very deep and picking leg very far back so he has a lot of weight on the left leg.

Nathan should have been credited by ISU as the first to land a true 4F...

 

[kittysk8ts]

Here's some demonstration videos. I don't know if they help or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Jcrh5Xkjw How to do half, toe, and full walley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYfA5tGgPc Double toe walley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYfA5tGgPc How to do a good toe loop

A walley is really difficult. Saw a video recently of Brendan Kerry doing a double walley! Crazy. Katelyn Osmond usually does a walley in her programs.