Cupid
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In the paper today, a headline said, "One in four of our children face hunger..." Is that correct? I thought it should have said "faces" hunger, not "face."
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Grammar question
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AxelAnnie
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Respectfully I believe it should be Face. The subject being emitted about is the one.... Who faces hunger... Not the three.
Simone411
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I believe Vash is right. English grammar is really complicated at times. "Faces" is correct. If you read it in this way, it will make more sense: "One faces hunger ..." It has to do with whether the noun is singular or plural, I believe.
Someone please correct me if I am incorrect.
Someone please correct me if I am incorrect.
D
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This site agrees with you and Vash.
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/one.htm
It's definitely not a stupid question or mistake though, because "one in four" of a large number is going to be more than one person total, so in some sense it seems like it should be plural.
They also give the example of "more than one" being grammatically singular which certainly sounds right ("There is more than one way to skin a cat," not "There are more than one ways to skin a cat"), but seems a little odd when thinking about it.
The way that none/zero can be either singular or plural and the rules and exceptions for "less" vs. "fewer" can be confusing too, but I know that sometimes one way just sounds right to me and the other way really bothers me.
Also tricky and seemingly controversial are phrases like "It is I" vs. "It is me." The former seems more formal and literary and the latter more informal, and that's essentially what this link says. "It's me" seems right and "It's I" sounds totally wrong to me, because the contraction makes it seems like an informal statement. http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/it-is-i-versus-it-is-me
The one that grinds my gears even more are phrases like "I would have went" or "He should have did."
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/one.htm
It's definitely not a stupid question or mistake though, because "one in four" of a large number is going to be more than one person total, so in some sense it seems like it should be plural.
They also give the example of "more than one" being grammatically singular which certainly sounds right ("There is more than one way to skin a cat," not "There are more than one ways to skin a cat"), but seems a little odd when thinking about it.
The way that none/zero can be either singular or plural and the rules and exceptions for "less" vs. "fewer" can be confusing too, but I know that sometimes one way just sounds right to me and the other way really bothers me.
Also tricky and seemingly controversial are phrases like "It is I" vs. "It is me." The former seems more formal and literary and the latter more informal, and that's essentially what this link says. "It's me" seems right and "It's I" sounds totally wrong to me, because the contraction makes it seems like an informal statement. http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/it-is-i-versus-it-is-me
The one that grinds my gears even more are phrases like "I would have went" or "He should have did."
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AxelAnnie
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I am about to drive from LA to SF with two little kids.... But I looked at 4 sites. One said either is correct and the others said face is correct because I four is a phrase and not the subject. I am simply never doing to repeat the phrase.
It's time to go back to sentence diagramming. The subject of the sentence is one; it is modified by the prepositional phrase in four. That phrase is modified by the prepositional phrase of our children. The subject of the sentence, one, is singular and takes the singular form of the verb, to face, which is faces; that's all there is to it.
Tinami Amori
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The verb pertains to a single child, not multiple children, so it should be "faces".
One child, xxxxx, faces hunger.
or
Our children face hunger.
One child, xxxxx, faces hunger.
or
Our children face hunger.
Nicely explained.
JasperBoy
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We don't use phrases about skinning cats around our house.
Eta. I tried to attach a winking emo to the message. No luck.
Eta. I tried to attach a winking emo to the message. No luck.
skatefan
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We don't treat collective nouns in the manner you say (unless it's in error). We do not say 'The herd are ...' we say 'The herd is ...' because there is only one herd. We would say 'faces' referring to the op's question.
overedge
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If the wording is "one in four" it's identifying a single member of a group, not the group as a whole. So "faces" is correct.
Spun Silver
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Susan1
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It's good that the original poster wishes to keep up on correct grammar, but don't bother looking to the newspaper for correctness! I don't think I've gone through a day without finding an error in the paper. And I don't even read all the articles.
Related - I just finished reading a book where she used suppose instead of supposed 8 times that I counted. I was suppose to....... DROVE ME CRAZY. There were other typos in the book, so I guess it's the editor's fault? Although, editors don't actually edit, do they? Does anybody but the thanked family members ever read these books - like maybe for typos, grammatical errors, spelling? (off topic rant off!)
Related - I just finished reading a book where she used suppose instead of supposed 8 times that I counted. I was suppose to....... DROVE ME CRAZY. There were other typos in the book, so I guess it's the editor's fault? Although, editors don't actually edit, do they? Does anybody but the thanked family members ever read these books - like maybe for typos, grammatical errors, spelling? (off topic rant off!)
Susan1
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This site agrees with you and Vash.
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/one.htm
The way that none/zero can be either singular or plural and the rules and exceptions for "less" vs. "fewer" can be confusing too, but I know that sometimes one way just sounds right to me and the other way really bothers me.
The one that grinds my gears even more are phrases like "I would have went" or "He should have did."
EVERY TIME somebody on t.v. says less - I yell "FEWER". What t.v. network used to say "less commercials"? Made me want to scream!!!
Here's a simple way to explain it to someone without the "technical" singular/plural grammar lesson - less thing, fewer things.
D
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That's approximately what I learned. I had a professor who said, "Fewer things; less stuff." That's not without exception and/or controversy either, though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewer_vs._less
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/definitions/fewer-v-less/
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vesperholly
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If my 10 years in a newsroom are of any value, there was likely a heated debate amongst the copyeditors as to which one was correct.
I favor "face" because "children" is plural, but it's a hella awkward headline - our children? "Hunger affects one in four children" would avoid it.
I favor "face" because "children" is plural, but it's a hella awkward headline - our children? "Hunger affects one in four children" would avoid it.
D
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Here's another good site I just found:
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/si...ect-and-verb-agreement-with-collective-nouns/
Scrufflet
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Sigh of pleasure when I saw this thread! I'm glad some still care about grammar. I yell at my TV and radio a lot!
PeterG
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We're really doing good in this thread.
skatingfan5
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But it is likely only by position of the plural "children" in the sentence that "face" would seem to be correct. Of course while "one" is the singular subject of the sentence, in reality that "one in four" represents quite a large number of children. I usually save my grammar outrage for such things as "my sister and myself" or "between you and I."
JasperBoy
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Oh, congradulations. Posters to this thread have had there blood pressure increased by 10 points at least.
skatingfan5
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You're killing me!
Oh, congradulations. Posters to this thread have had there blood pressure increased by 10 points at least.
ETA: I forgot to mention "use to" instead of "used to" and "cut and dry" in my list of grammar triggers above.
Seeing incorrect grammar (or spelling) in printed books drives me crazy. I don't like those in newspapers either but at least the np's are usually under time pressure. The printed books have no excuse. Someone just didn't do a good job of editing or proof reading.
One that drives me nuts is "Should of..." instead of "Should have..."
floridaice
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take vs bring/brought
accept vs except
and everyone's favorite, your vs you're
accept vs except
and everyone's favorite, your vs you're
skatingfan5
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Should of probably derives from the same sort of mishearing that has given us "doggy dog" (should've = should of).
