Gracie Gold's memoir published February 2024

[moonvine]

Based on his reality show and all the stories about him, it doesn't seem like he plays a character for TV, but perhaps he does.

I think, too, Johnny's coaching philosophy lines up very much with her own. Sometimes you can make for good coworkers even if you don't necessarily like each other.

I have no first hand experience of Johnny's coaching philosophy, but I figured that since he is so enamored with the Russians (or to be fair, he was before the scandal) that his philosophy would be more like a Russian philosophy. Isn't the whole concept of what he went with a Russian thing?

 

[moonvine]

I understand this. I was surprised when she mentioned vaping at the beginning of the book. I hope she isn't encouraging it and that she finds a way to give it up. Smoking and vaping aren't healthy. But, I also hope she isn't beating herself up too much about it. She beats herself up enough.

Vaping, tattoos, piercings, whatever she has to do to numb the pain has got to be better than suicidal ideations.

 

[ignosk8er]

I didn't truly understand the magnitude of this mindset shift until I had a child with someone who, as a child himself, was only given affection and opportunities for connection by his parents and grandparents when he was perfect. And often, nothing my husband ever did was right in the eyes of his family. Needless to say, he's got perfectionism and anxiety issues. And that is a complete understatement - he doubts every decision he makes because he has debilitating thoughts of the outcome not being perfect. It permeates his every waking moment. (And yes, he's gone to therapy for years for this, as well as for other childhood physical and emotional abuse.)

He was able to mask it before we had a baby, because I'm very emotionally independent and he could spend hours and hours every day on his own. (I've since figured out he was spending those hours simply decompressing from work.) However, becoming a parent completely upends your brain, and so his usual coping strategies didn't work anymore. Now he's seeing an occupational therapist.

We've since had deep convos about this, and it was then that I started to truly understand how utterly damaging it is for a child to only experience conditional love. It'll affect them the rest of their life, because it's been hardwired into their brains and bodies. There will always be a little voice telling them they're not worthy, and they'll spend the rest of their life trying to fight against that.

Judging by the convos in here, it's extremely common in elite sports. (And my husband is a nobody, has done nothing at any elite level. Just someone with perfectionist parents and grandparents.) It breaks my heart.

I'm glad Gracie has grown to be aware of all this. I wish her nothing the best in the rest of her journey.

Thanks for this. Her title is a gutwrench for me every single time I read it. Not the "outofshape" and "loser" but the "worthless". Never knowing unconditional love was the first thought that popped into my mind. And my heart breaks for Gracie and your husband and anyone who's never felt unconditionally loved, if only by one person, if only for an hour.

 

[Allskate]

Thanks for this. Her title is a gutwrench for me every single time I read it. Not the "outofshape" and "loser" but the "worthless". Never knowing unconditional love was the first thought that popped into my mind. And my heart breaks for Gracie and your husband and anyone who's never felt unconditionally loved, if only by one person, if only for an hour.

I'm only part way through the book, but my sense is that some of the perfectionism is hard-wired and how she was born. I'm not saying that parents, coaches, the media, etc. didn't play a big part. But, it's more than that.

 

[lsusan]

So Ilia Kulik, former husband of Ekaterina Gordeeva, was hitting on Gracie Gold, to the extent he was banned from the rink by her team? This is according to one of the spoiler alerts on here. WOW. What was he thinking? Even if he was already divorced, she’s way too young for him, and never did I think he was like that. So happy Ms. Ekaterina Gordeeva has moved on and is in a happier place in her life. I hope he wasn’t hitting on anyone else while they were married.

 

[ignosk8er]

I'm only part way through the book, but my sense is that some of the perfectionism is hard-wired and how she was born. I'm not saying that parents, coaches, the media, etc. didn't play a big part. But, it's more than that.

Thanks. I haven't read it yet so I may be wildly off target here but it goes beyond perfectionism for me. The word "worthless" is not the same as "imperfect". Clearly, there could be a causal relationship but for me, the word "worthless" does the deepest and lasting damage. She had some, if not enough, control of her fitness and competitive results but "worthless" is solely in the eyes of the other and it underlies everything else, often and ironically resulting in an "outofshapeloser".

 

[Willin]

I have no first hand experience of Johnny's coaching philosophy, but I figured that since he is so enamored with the Russians (or to be fair, he was before the scandal) that his philosophy would be more like a Russian philosophy. Isn't the whole concept of what he went with a Russian thing?

He seems to be going with a more affordable Russian model of group lessons with collaborative coaching, but in a much more supportive and positive environment.

 

[nlloyd]

Some child athletes undoubtedly experience conditional love from their parents -- love that is based, from an early age, on the child excelling in the sport. We know this because in some cases the parents are living out their own thwarted ambitions through the child.

At the same time, I think some children perceive the love as conditional once they begin to excel in a sport, and so much of the parent-child relationship is based on the sport and the child's success in it. The parent may not, in reality, base their love of the child's ability at the sport, but that may be the perception of the child.

And then there are parents who start off loving their children unconditionally, but when they excel -- and the sport establishment becomes involved and begins to hype the child -- the love becomes conditional. The parents develop a greater sense of responsibility towards the sporting establishment than to their child and their love for the child seems conditional on the child not letting them or the sporting establishment down.

 

[overedge]

So Ilia Kulik, former husband of Ekaterina Gordeeva, was hitting on Gracie Gold, to the extent he was banned from the rink by her team? This is according to one of the spoiler alerts on here. WOW. What was he thinking? Even if he was already divorced, she’s way too young for him, and never did I think he was like that. So happy Ms. Ekaterina Gordeeva has moved on and is in a happier place in her life. I hope he wasn’t hitting on anyone else while they were married.

As also mentioned earlier in this thread, harassment is not about attractiveness or age. It's about power and using that power.

 

[Sparks]

Gracie smoking does not pass the SO WHAT TEST

 

[Lynn226]

I just finished the chapter about John Coughlin. She put into words exactly what I've been thinking since their relationship was first mentioned in this thread. I do have to wonder if she was his "respectability beard "

 

[Vagabond]

Vaping, tattoos, piercings, whatever she has to do to numb the pain has got to be better than suicidal ideations.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Allskate]

He seems to be going with a more affordable Russian model of group lessons with collaborative coaching, but in a much more supportive and positive environment.

I can see why some would worry about him having had Russian coaches and what he has taken from that. And I think he was so late in questioning what was going on with Eteri. I hope he has learned a good lesson from that.

I also hope that he and Tara and Andrea and the other folks at NBC read Gracie's book and take something away from it.

IMO, Tara is generally worse than Johnny, not just in the particular situation that Gracie discusses. I think that Tara generally has an unrealistic view of what willpower can do and a contempt for those who aren't as consistent and "mentally tough." For example, she and Johnny constantly have a disagreement about whether you can prevent yourself from popping. Tara believes you absolutely can. Johnny thinks you can't. (I tend to agree with Johnny, especially if you already have a habit of popping.) Maybe because the media was intrusive and critical of her when she was a younger skater, I also don't think she sees proper and healthy boundaries for the media. For example, I didn't appreciate her discussion with Amber recently, when she asked Amber what she had said to Isabeau backstage after Isabeau's long program at Nationals. Kudos to Amber for not answering that question and focusing instead on wanting to be a role model and support for the younger skaters. (Also, I found it interesting that Isabeau liked one of Gracie's IG posts about the book.)

Personally, I much prefer the commentary of Mark Hanretty. He's informative, enthusiastic, empathetic, and kind.

 

[skatingguy]

For example, I didn't appreciate her discussion with Amber recently, when she asked Amber what she had said to Isabeau backstage after Isabeau's long program at Nationals. Kudos to Amber for not answering that question and focusing instead on wanting to be a role model and support for the younger skaters.

This seems like in this situation she was doing her job in the media to ask questions. Amber has every right not to answer, but asking the question 'What did you say to Isabeau after you won?' is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

 

[Trillian]

People in recovery from addiction A often move on to addiction B, especially if there are underlying issues. Substituting smoking or vaping for some other behavior may actually be progress. We don’t know.

I got the impression that was exactly what she was saying. She makes it pretty clear in the book that her recovery is a work in progress and acknowledges that vaping is a vice. Everyone has a few of those.

I just finished the chapter about John Coughlin. She put into words exactly what I've been thinking since their relationship was first mentioned in this thread. I do have to wonder if she was his "respectability beard "

I’m not that cynical. It’s entirely possible that he did whatever he did, and also that he loved Gracie and connected with her. The letter from him that she included in the book was heartbreaking and seemed genuine to me. People are complicated.

 

[Allskate]

This seems like in this situation she was doing her job in the media to ask questions. Amber has every right not to answer, but asking the question 'What did you say to Isabeau after you won?' is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

It wasn't "What did you say to Isabeau after you won?" It was clear from the clip they showed that Isabeau was very emotional and Tara's question was pretty clearly targeting the issue of Isabeau's long program problems and distress, IMO. The clip was from what was going on backstage, not in front of the audience. IMO, the clip and the question were intrusive and unkind. It made me sad and uncomfortable.

 

[Badams]

RE: Tara, I thought Gracie got some good digs in. I chuckled.

 

[Simone411]

Gracie smoking does not pass the SO WHAT TEST

No, it doesn't. But I'd rather she was smoking than vaping. Here's two articles about what's contained in them, and young teens and adults have ended up in the emergency room because vaping damaged their lungs and they could no longer breathe on their own.

Know the Risks: E-cigarettes & Young People | U.S. Surgeon General’s Report

E-cigarettes and youth don't mix. It's time to get the science-based facts from the U.S. Surgeon General.

e-cigarettes.surgeongeneral.gov

What Does Vaping Do to Your Lungs?

Many people wonder if vaping is bad for your lungs. Find out from an expert how it impacts lungs and which illnesses are associated with vaping.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[Sparks]

Agreed. I have a friend who's son wound up in the hospital from vaping

 

[Simone411]

Agreed. I have a friend who's son wound up in the hospital from vaping

Sorry to hear this. I hope the son is doing much better now and is okay.

 

[Willin]

I can see why some would worry about him having had Russian coaches and what he has taken from that. And I think he was so late in questioning what was going on with Eteri. I hope he has learned a good lesson from that.

I also hope that he and Tara and Andrea and the other folks at NBC read Gracie's book and take something away from it.

IMO, Tara is generally worse than Johnny, not just in the particular situation that Gracie discusses. I think that Tara generally has an unrealistic view of what willpower can do and a contempt for those who aren't as consistent and "mentally tough." For example, she and Johnny constantly have a disagreement about whether you can prevent yourself from popping. Tara believes you absolutely can. Johnny thinks you can't. (I tend to agree with Johnny, especially if you already have a habit of popping.) Maybe because the media was intrusive and critical of her when she was a younger skater, I also don't think she sees proper and healthy boundaries for the media. For example, I didn't appreciate her discussion with Amber recently, when she asked Amber what she had said to Isabeau backstage after Isabeau's long program at Nationals. Kudos to Amber for not answering that question and focusing instead on wanting to be a role model and support for the younger skaters. (Also, I found it interesting that Isabeau liked one of Gracie's IG posts about the book.)

Personally, I much prefer the commentary of Mark Hanretty. He's informative, enthusiastic, empathetic, and kind.

Johnny's love of Russia is very problematic, but that's for another thread.

I think Johnny is just generally more in touch with modern skaters. He was doing shows until recently - including some with Gracie. He's friends with a number of current skaters and skated at rinks in places like New Jersey where a lot of the current generation skates. While he can be a bit catty, he's still very much in the loop and you know he talks to the skaters and, like Gracie, is still very passionate about the sport and growing the sport. He also competed IJS and is great at explaining IJS.

Tara, OTOH, seems to care 0 about skating - she's an empty void for NBC to fill with their talking points. I understand her injuries, but I get the sense she hasn't stepped foot in an ice rink since the '90s. I'd also bet she hasn't watched skating since she quit unless it's for her job.

 

[Allskate]

Tara, OTOH, seems to care 0 about skating - she's an empty void for NBC to fill with their talking points. I understand her injuries, but I get the sense she hasn't stepped foot in an ice rink since the '90s. I'd also bet she hasn't watched skating since she quit unless it's for her job.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. But, what I do think is true is that she puts so much emphasis on winning. Her identity seems to be wrapped up in being Olympic Champion. I think winning and triumphing over challenges colors so much of the way she views skating and life. (I see this in her podcast, too. Soooo driven and intense and persistent.)

To bring this back to Gracie, she also is focused on winning and not just doing her best. Some of her intense drive and insane jump repetitions (even when her coach wasn't there) reminds me of things I read about Tara when she was competing. And it's not just because of her parents or insane coaches. Gracie is clear about this in the book. It's interesting the contrast she draws between herself and her sister.

 

[Sparks]

Sorry to hear this. I hope the son is doing much better now and is okay.

He is. It happened in December 2019. Sometimes I wonder if it was vaping and Covid

 

[MacMadame]

Of course, but I was responding to your post saying that you can see many parents steering their kids out of skating and into sports where women are succeeding and even offer some athletic scholarships.

Yeah, I was combining two things. My feeling as a parent is that I would have been happy enough for my kids to skate but absolutely would not want them to be an elite skater and would steer them towards a less expensive healthier sport. And if it was a sport that had college scholarships down the line, more to the better. But not the deciding factor unless the kid was into two sports and good enough in them for it to matter.

People in recovery from addiction A often move on to addiction B, especially if there are underlying issues. Substituting smoking or vaping for some other behavior may actually be progress. We don’t know.

Smoking is very common among former addicts. Sometimes the new addiction is destructive though. Like my relative the ex-heroin addict who came out of rehab and started not just smoking but also alcohol.

People are complicated.

Very.

 

[tony]

Gracie smoking does not pass the SO WHAT TEST

It’s not all that surprising in athlete/former athlete circles. I live in a city where many former high-level skaters from across the world take jobs on cruise ships that dock here, and many of them have come to the bar I worked at for a long time. One consistent thing is that almost all of them smoke.

Gracie mentioned her vaping personality early on but then said she chain-smoked in her car directly following John Coughlin’s funeral IIRC.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

It’s not all that surprising in athlete/former athlete circles. I live in a city where many former high-level skaters from across the world take jobs on cruise ships that dock here, and many of them have come to the bar I worked at for a long time. One consistent thing is that almost all of them smoke. Gracie mentioned her vaping personality early on but then said she chain-smoked in her car directly following John Coughlin’s funeral IIRC.

Oh yeah, I watch below deck and they all smoke on those franchises

Enough small talk, now spill it, where did you work?

 

[overedge]

This seems like in this situation she was doing her job in the media to ask questions. Amber has every right not to answer, but asking the question 'What did you say to Isabeau after you won?' is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

It's a reasonable question but it's also a dumb question. What was Amber supposed to say - "sorry I beat you?" "sorry you fell down so much"? Amber has a great story of her own that would be much more relevant to ask about.

 

[Frau Muller]

Johnny's love of Russia is very problematic, but that's for another thread.

I think Johnny is just generally more in touch with modern skaters. He was doing shows until recently - including some with Gracie. He's friends with a number of current skaters and skated at rinks in places like New Jersey where a lot of the current generation skates. While he can be a bit catty, he's still very much in the loop and you know he talks to the skaters and, like Gracie, is still very passionate about the sport and growing the sport. He also competed IJS and is great at explaining IJS.

Tara, OTOH, seems to care 0 about skating - she's an empty void for NBC to fill with their talking points. I understand her injuries, but I get the sense she hasn't stepped foot in an ice rink since the '90s. I'd also bet she hasn't watched skating since she quit unless it's for her job.

Didn’t Tara & her husband produce the MEDDLING documentary on Peacock? It was on point and enjoyable.

 

[Vagabond]

I can't believe that this thread has turned to cruising instead of Michelle Kwan!

 

[Lynn226]

I can't believe that this thread has turned to cruising instead of Michelle Kwan!

Give it time. You know The Kween rules. I happened to see this today.

Figure Skating Star Michelle Kwan’s New Life as a U.S. Ambassador

A profile of Olympic figure-skating medalist and Fletcher School graduate Michelle Kwan, who is the Biden administration's ambassador to Belize

now.tufts.edu