Evan Lysacek - the most underappreciated champion?

[lala]

Takahashi was absolutely undermarked in comparision to both Lysacek and Plushenko in both programs however. He should have won the short hands down, it isnt even a question and anyone who disputes this is an idiot. Evan was also overmarked compared to Plushenko in the short, although not in the long. I dont know if Dai neccessarily should have won, and perhaps even bronze was correct, but the scores in both programs were not. Lambiel nearly beat him for the bronze even though he missed over half the jumps he tried over the two programs.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_Men_SP_Scores.pdf This is the SP protocol..I'm really curious how would you have scored...concretely, please

If anybody was overscored that is not Plushenko. He was punished. Lysacek beat Daisuke in PCS. What is laughable

It seems Tarasova is the biggest idiot. She said “They ‘buried’ Zhenya before anything could be done. He should have won the short program with a 4 to 5 point lead, in my opinion. A short program is a technical one. And a 4+3 combination changes everything here because it shows that you’re capable of doing more than others,"

 

[berthesghost]

I'm confused as plushy did win the sp with a 4-5 pt lead in tech.

And wasn't this one of his comebacks? I know people disagree but I'm on the side of those who feel that history shows that the judges tend to mark low returning champs.

 

[kittysk8ts]

It depends on the jump also. The axel is considered the most difficult jump due to the additional half revolution.

As a skater myself (many many years ago, lol) the axel was the most difficult jump for me, not because of the extra 0.5 rotation but because of the forward entry. Also, the loop was hard for me due to the lack of "assist" and I had to do several travelling 3 turns to mimic the entry to get it airborne. I think it can be an individual thing

 

[meggonzo]

No, that was Sarah Hughes...

I always like Evan the same way I liked Nancy K when she was on. Just nice skating without the arm flapping and the fluff. He deserved his OGM fair and square.

Wait? Are you saying Evan's skating was WITHOUT arm flapping??

 

[berthesghost]

I hope we're not using arm flailing as an excuse on why a champion is underrated. Irina and Orser were king and Queen of arm flailing, never won OGMs and are both popular and routinely held up by fans as "artistic" skaters.

 

[Yazmeen]

Wait? Are you saying Evan's skating was WITHOUT arm flapping??

No, I'm saying it was without the extreme arm flapping dramatics that some skater used.

 

[meggonzo]

Um ok then...

 

[Cleo1782]

As a skater myself (many many years ago, lol) the axel was the most difficult jump for me, not because of the extra 0.5 rotation but because of the forward entry. Also, the loop was hard for me due to the lack of "assist" and I had to do several travelling 3 turns to mimic the entry to get it airborne. I think it can be an individual thing

Definitely individual. Axel was the easiest for me followed by sal and loop. Much more consistent for me than 3 toe ( about 70% consistent) and 3 flip (50%/50%) and I probably would get an edge call these days lol. Some people are edge jumpers, some toe I think. I do think it's rare to find an axel easier though as so many girls (and men) do struggle with it.

 

[judiz]

IMO, Evan's post-competitive career may have been adversely affected by things unrelated to the nature of his win. For example, he isn't in shows because skating's popularity has dropped in the US, and places where skating is popular and shows exist (like Russia and Japan) have their own "home country skaters".

I think Evan is not in shows due to his multiple injuries and outside interests. If he was interested and his hips and back allowed. , he'd definitely be invited to SOI. As for Japan and Russia, Weir is there several times a year doing shows because he remains very popular in those countries.

 

[Winnipeg]

I can't See Evan in shows unless he was portraying Sherlock Holmes or the tin man or something stiff.

Is he coaching?

I don't think he was under appreciated I think he went way beyond what his skating should have done due to hard work, opportunity etc,

 

[Kecasyl]

I can't See Evan in shows unless he was portraying Sherlock Holmes or the tin man or something stiff.

Is he coaching?

I don't think he was under appreciated I think he went way beyond what his skating should have done due to hard work, opportunity etc,

No, he's not coaching but he still skates. He works as a corporate creative consultant for Vera Wang.

 

[Sylvia]

I don't think he was under appreciated I think he went way beyond what his skating should have done due to hard work, opportunity etc,

Changed that emoticon for ya!

 

[Areski]

I would say Urmanov is the least memorable..
I have seen Evan skate forever and he doesn't translate as well on tv, but I thought his win was fair and square and due to work ethic and ability to control nerves. Evan just moved on from the sport quicker, so he may not be well remembered. I in fact enjoyed his skating. I think Sarah Hughes could be put in the category, but she was the best skater of the night. And she has a decent personality. She is just a blah Olympic Champion.

If Sarah Hughes is just a blah Olympic Champion than what is Tara Lipinski? I fear to think about it.

Sure Tara was more successful before Olympic Gold but Sarah was in some way a better skater, more mature. Actually she even looked older than she was at that time in SLC. Tara looked like little girl back in Nagano even though she was only little bit younger.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

I would rather see a beautiful, inconsistent skater than a blah, consistent one any day. Evan never appealed to me because it seemed to be a numbers game for him. Yes, I know, that's what competitive skating is. But it's just not always enjoyable to watch, in my opinion. Give me Weir, Abbott, or Brown any day. If I were casting a show, I'd put those guys in over the Olympic Champion Evan. As for Johnny Weir and talent, I can't really judge, not being a skater. But there are YouTubes of him doing quad/triple/double combos in practice. He just couldn't put it together in competition. Abbott, too, seemed talented at skating but not at competing. And Jason...well, he can't seem to get all his jumps (quads), but the strengths he has make him more memorable than some of the quad machines.

In terms of international shows, did Evan ever do those? I know Davis and White do shows in Japan, as do Lambiel, Weir, and Plushenko, so it's not only Japanese skaters there. I wonder if those shows are cast no only based on medal winners but just based on popularity, as skaters seem to be treated more like stars in Japan (and China too) than in North America. As for Russia, I guess Plushenko invites his friends to be in his casts? Not sure. When Johnny did The Snow King with Plushenko, Brian Joubert was in the show too, but it was a mostly Russian cast.

 

[Cleo1782]

If Sarah Hughes is just a blah Olympic Champion than what is Tara Lipinski? I fear to think about it.

Sure Tara was more successful before Olympic Gold but Sarah was a better skater, much more mature. Actually she even looked older than she was at that time in SLC. Tara looked like little girl back in Nagano even though she was only little bit younger.

I honestly consider both Tara and Oksana blah worthy, but that is kinda neither her nor there in the Evan thread. I believed Tara skated better that night but then just quit. Oksana was not the better skater that night IMO. But I have come to appreciate Tara and looking back she really did deserve to win that night. Oksana well turned into Oksana. Sarah was my least favorite of the 3.

 

[Kecasyl]

I would rather see a beautiful, inconsistent skater than a blah, consistent one any day. Evan never appealed to me because it seemed to be a numbers game for him. Yes, I know, that's what competitive skating is. But it's just not always enjoyable to watch, in my opinion. Give me Weir, Abbott, or Brown any day. If I were casting a show, I'd put those guys in over the Olympic Champion Evan. As for Johnny Weir and talent, I can't really judge, not being a skater. But there are YouTubes of him doing quad/triple/double combos in practice. He just couldn't put it together in competition. Abbott, too, seemed talented at skating but not at competing. And Jason...well, he can't seem to get all his jumps (quads), but the strengths he has make him more memorable than some of the quad machines.

In terms of international shows, did Evan ever do those? I know Davis and White do shows in Japan, as do Lambiel, Weir, and Plushenko, so it's not only Japanese skaters there. I wonder if those shows are cast no only based on medal winners but just based on popularity, as skaters seem to be treated more like stars in Japan (and China too) than in North America. As for Russia, I guess Plushenko invites his friends to be in his casts? Not sure. When Johnny did The Snow King with Plushenko, Brian Joubert was in the show too, but it was a mostly Russian cast.

I agree with you on many of your points, I'll take Abbott over Lysacek on pure talent and artistry any day, but I do need to point out that yes Lysacek has done plenty of overseas shows. He did Yuna Kims shows in S. Korea and LA for many years, he also did Denis Ten's show in Kazakhstan, and Stars on Ice in Japan.

 

[montrealsurfa]

If Sarah Hughes is just a blah Olympic Champion than what is Tara Lipinski? I fear to think about it.

Sure Tara was more successful before Olympic Gold but Sarah was a better skater, much more mature. Actually she even looked older than she was at that time in SLC. Tara looked like little girl back in Nagano even though she was only little bit younger.

Sarah is not a better skater than Tara. Tara beat a clean Michelle Kwan in Nagano which Sarah could never have done. She also beat a clean Irina in the LP of the 97 worlds, which Sarah also could never do.

Tara's jumps were techically perfect other than the relative lack of height and minor flutzing. Sarah also lacked height but she also flutzes far worse than Tara, badly underrotates most of her jumps and both pre rotates and underrotates her joke 3-3s which would be worth almost nothing today, and mule kicks all her toe jumps badly. There is nothing special about the air position, rotation, and control which are impeccable in Tara's jumps. Tara skates with more speed and command, and has a more natural star appeal about her. Generic maturity which still doesnt stand out in the field doesnt count for much. Sarah's layback spin and spirals are better, and that is about it. Her choreography by the blah Robin Wagner was mostly meh, Tara atleast was choreographed by Sandra Bezic.

 

[Areski]

Sarah is not a better skater than Tara. Tara beat a clean Michelle Kwan in Nagano which Sarah could never have done. She also beat a clean Irina in the LP of the 97 worlds, which Sarah also could never do.

Tara's jumps were techically perfect other than the relative lack of height and minor flutzing. Sarah also lacked height but she also flutzes far worse than Tara, badly underrotates most of her jumps and both pre rotates and underrotates her joke 3-3s which would be worth almost nothing today, and mule kicks all her toe jumps badly. There is nothing special about the air position, rotation, and control which are impeccable in Tara's jumps. Tara skates with more speed and command, and has a more natural star appeal about her. Generic maturity which still doesnt stand out in the field doesnt count for much. Sarah's layback spin and spirals are better, and that is about it. Her choreography by the blah Robin Wagner was mostly meh, Tara atleast was choreographed by Sandra Bezic.

Tara was stronger technically than Sarah but I just preferred little bit Sarah as far as it comes down to presentation, she just seemed more well-rounded to me. I let my personal, taste - opinion obscure my view in that post ... I did not like her either though. Lipinski deserved her titles though while Hughes was lucky and skated clean in SLC at least unlike the rest. People like to pick on Lipinski ''roller-skating'' technique but in fact her jumps even if small were more sound than what even some top ladies now offer.

 

[montrealsurfa]

Tara was stronger technically than Sarah but I just preferred little bit Sarah as far as it comes down to presentation, she just seemed more well-rounded to me. I let my personal, taste - opinion obscure my view in that post ... I did not like her either though. Lipinski deserved her titles though while Hughes was lucky and skated clean in SLC at least unlike the rest. People like to pick on Lipinski ''roller-skating'' technique but in fact her jumps even if small were more sound than what even some top ladies now offer.

Fair enough. I respect your opinion. As you said though Tara was technically cleaner which made her more dangerous in competition. Sarah's technik flaws did not go unnoticed by the judges and meant despite many of her good qualities she needed helped from Michelle and Irina, and sometimes even Sasha and Maria to win.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

I agree with you on many of your points, I'll take Abbott over Lysacek on pure talent and artistry any day, but I do need to point out that yes Lysacek has done plenty of overseas shows. He did Yuna Kims shows in S. Korea and LA for many years, he also did Denis Ten's show in Kazakhstan, and Stars on Ice in Japan.

OK, I guess I didn't know because I don't follow what Evan's doing. But again, I would go see a show with Weir, Abbott, or Brown...or Rippon...much more readily than Evan, gold medal or not, just based on the programs I have seen him do. And I do think Evan has a personality. I've heard he can be funny and friendly in private, but he doesn't show that in public, that I've seen. So getting back to the original question, I think that's one reason he's not remembered very much. He's just not that memorable. In my opinion.

 

[hertmirsh]

He is not underappreciated. Even with his Olympic Gold he is less accomplished than Plushenko, Chan, Lambiel, Hanyu, Joubert, maybe Takahashi, and he is hands down less memorable than all of those other than maybe Joubert. His Olympic Gold was won also through others mistakes. Clean Lambiel, Takahashi, Chan, Joubert, Verner, Abbott, would have all beaten him there. The only top skaters who skated clean besides him were Weir and Plushenko, and Plushenko was lackluster.

He isnt a very nice person either, and simply isnt very interesting either on or off the ice. He did not capatilize on his Olympic Gold with a strong pro career. Just a continous non comeback that never happened. Johnny Weir now as a TV commenator and B list celebrity is even outshining him.

 

[hertmirsh]

I hope we're not using arm flailing as an excuse on why a champion is underrated. Irina and Orser were king and Queen of arm flailing, never won OGMs and are both popular and routinely held up by fans as "artistic" skaters.

Irina is not praised for her artistry. Only for her athleticsm which is fair.

 

[Meoima]

Gezz, he wasn't charming. That's all. Some people don't have star quality no matter what.

 

[berthesghost]

Irina is not praised for her artistry.

I think I know what I've read with my own eyes. #alternativefacts
Everyone has different opinions, and champions don't get high marks and have fan sites dedicated to them because "no one" praises their artistry. I didn't just imagine all those comments in various "list your favorite Irina programs" threads over the years.

 

[hertmirsh]

I think I know what I've read with my own eyes. #alternativefacts
Everyone has different opinions, and champions don't get high marks and have fan sites dedicated to them because "no one" praises their artistry. I didn't just imagine all those comments in various "list your favorite Irina programs" threads over the years.

Well everyone has fans who are a bit delusional. I am sure Stojko have ardent fans who praise his artistry too but most realize he was mostly a technical skater and that is where his success is from. Same as Irina.

 

[berthesghost]

Well everyone has fans who are a bit delusional. I am sure Stojko have ardent fans who praise his artistry too but most realize he was mostly a technical skater and that is where his success is from. Same as Irina.

which only supports my initial point: skaters can flail their arms and still have ardent fans, so Evan being prone to arm flailing doesn't really cut it as a reason why he's under appreciated.

 

[Winnipeg]

Tara absolutely deserve to win in Nagano. I never found her blah. Maybe overly exuberant but never blah.

Sarah on the other hand, I always found blah even her Oly performance.

I guess technical wins over artistry but the ideal situation is when you have both combined. It does not always work that way though in the Olys. Artistry is great but you have to skate cleanly to win and that is the way it should be.

 

[briancoogaert]

Takahashi was absolutely undermarked in comparision to both Lysacek and Plushenko in both programs however. He should have won the short hands down, it isnt even a question and anyone who disputes this is an idiot. Evan was also overmarked compared to Plushenko in the short, although not in the long. I dont know if Dai neccessarily should have won, and perhaps even bronze was correct, but the scores in both programs were not. Lambiel nearly beat him for the bronze even though he missed over half the jumps he tried over the two programs.

So true about Takahashi's SP. An absolute perfection. What a shame he only finished in 3rd...

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

The majority here seem to hold Evan was unmemorable. As with these fan sites once an opinion gets going there's no stopping it. Evan was a great champion medaling at worlds since 2005 and coming back multiple times to achieve even greater heights. That makes him special and memorable to me. Yes, there were some tight performances but with his record some of them must of been impressive/inspiring.

Memorable...hmmm. When I think of Pleshenko swiveling his hips and blowing wet kisses at the audience I find it's best to forget!

 

[hertmirsh]

The majority here seem to hold Evan was unmemorable. As with these fan sites once an opinion gets going there's no stopping it. Evan was a great champion medaling at worlds since 2005

He wasnt a regular medalist yearly if that is what you mean. He didnt medal at 2005, 2006 Olympics, 2007 worlds, 2008 worlds, at the 2006, 2007, or 2009 grand prix finals (he didnt even qualify for some of those). And he only was better than bronze twice- 2009 worlds and 2010 Olympics. And just emerging on the scene in 2005 and retiring after 2010, he doesnt have the longevity of many of his peers either.

A better example of a regular medalist outside the dominant skaters like Plushenko, Hanyu, and Chan, would be Brian Joubert who has 6 world medals, 4 of those gold or silver, along with numerous 4th place finishes, and TEN European medals/3 European golds against stellar competition (he has a far better record at Europeans skating against Plushenko, Lambiel, Verner, and others than Evan has at the way weaker U.S nationals skating against against only Weir and Abbott, heck he has a weaker record at Nationals than Weir and Abbott). Evan is far more similar to Lambiel, not a very long career, not even a regular medalist in big events, never dominant even in his own part of the world let alone global, very few international wins even on the regular grand prix circuit, not even a Europeans title which is about on par with Evan having a mere 2 U.S titles. Even Stephane though outside of Olympic Gold vs Olympic silver (and silver is all Evan would ever get vs 2006 Plushenko too) eclipses Evan every other way- Grand prix finals, worlds wins, world medals success, overall internationals, National wins, and far greater artistic and even technical impact on the sport; and missed podiums far less often when he competed than Evan from 2005-2010.