Evan Lysacek - the most underappreciated champion?

[berthesghost]

I blame Frank and Lori for this.

this of course being also what you'll have inscribed on a your tombstone

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

For me, Lysacek's international championship titles are more a reminder of Jeremy Abbott blowing it than Evan winning.

 

[MAXSwagg]

For me, Lysacek's international championship titles are more a reminder of Jeremy Abbott blowing it than Evan winning.

LOLOLOL This is true, actually.

 

[DreamSkates]

Why are you so defensive about Scott? Other commentators get routinely trashed on fsu. When he makes outrageous statements, he deserves to be criticized because as an expert he has the power to influence people and he should not mislead them.

Just because I want to.

 

[slipchuk]

For me, Lysacek's international championship titles are more a reminder of Jeremy Abbott blowing it than Evan winning.

When you think about it Abbott actually could have won both 2009 worlds and 2010 Olympics had he gone clean.

 

[olympic]

I always found interesting that if you were to rank the 3 top US men at the time in terms of talent and potential -

1. Abbott
2. Weir
3. Lysacek

The results flip-flop perfectly in terms of consistency and results -

1. Lysacek
2. Weir
3. Abbott

BTW, I always thought EL's 2009 4CC performance was his best international performance. I think he did the 4T and 2 3A's?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Sorry but I disagree. Lysacek and passion don't go together. Plushenko was not perfect but he skated with more feeling. Lysacek's jumps have never been really good, He forces everything.

About Urmanov, he won by default because nobody skated well in the men's field in 94. Boitano, Petrenko, Browing and Stojko were supposed to be the favorites for the gold, but first three self destructed in the SP and were out of even medal contention going into the LP. Stojko's main weapon was the quad but he didn't do it. He popped his first triple axel, then he replaced the quad with a triple axel. Even though he skated clean rest of the way, his presentation marks were not his friend. He needed the quad to win. Urmanov had a problem on his 3 flip but he skated clean rest if the way. The quality of his jumps was superior to Stojko's (in the 6.0 system that counted a lot). Urmanov won the OGM before he was expected to, but he still was the Olympic champion. Mainly people in North America hated him because he beat a Canadian. Sadly Urmaniv's career ending injury didn't allow him to really develop.

Different ideas of what passion looks like, perhaps.

 

[slipchuk]

I always found interesting that if you were to rank the 3 top US men at the time in terms of talent and potential -

1. Abbott
2. Weir
3. Lysacek

The results flip-flop perfectly in terms of consistency and results -

1. Lysacek
2. Weir
3. Abbott

BTW, I always thought EL's 2009 4CC performance was his best international performance. I think he did the 4T and 2 3A's?

Hmm I disagree somewhat. I rank them by potential and talent:

1. Abbott
2. Lysacek
3. Weir

And results:

1. Lysacek
2. Abbott
3. Weir

I rank Weir last in both actually. I dont think he is outrageously talented or anymore talented than Lysacek. I think anyone who underachieves even slightly gets their talented overrated by default, Sandhu is another example although he is much more talented than Weir, but still not as talented as he is potrayed which he wouldnt be if he had achieved his full potential. Abbott that is probably true of too, although I do still agree he is the most talented U.S male of that period.

As for results I would rather Abbott's career than Weir's. An Olympic medal, even if in the team event, a grand prix final gold, more U.S titles, same # of grand prix even wins. Weir only has his world bronze over Abbott, and I would take winning the grand prix final alone, the biggest event after Olympics and worlds, over a mere bronze at worlds easily; and I would put an Olympic team medal atleast on par with a world bronze. I would take Abbott's career easily if I were a skater and had the choice. And for both their biggest legacy is U.S titles as neither have any real legacy outside of that, and Abbott has more than Weir which puts him clearly in front.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Why are you so defensive about Scott? Other commentators get routinely trashed on fsu. When he makes outrageous statements, he deserves to be criticized because as an expert he has the power to influence people and he should not mislead them.

Outrageous? Why not egregious?

 

[bumblebeevich]

For me, Lysacek's international championship titles are more a reminder of Jeremy Abbott blowing it than Evan winning.

Many people could have beaten Evan at both events going clean.

Chan, Joubert, Verner, Abbott all beat him at 2009 worlds clean. Chan lost to him in the SP when both were clean but when you add his errors in the LP he wins out over Evan even with the lower PCS

Lambiel, Takahashi, Abbott, all beat him at the 2010 Olympics clean. Not sure on Chan and Joubert. I dont include Plushenko since he did skate clean (sort of) and lost to Evan.

 

[tylersf]

OMG - for a second I thought you were talking about Jeremy blowing Evan.

For me, Lysacek's international championship titles are more a reminder of Jeremy Abbott blowing it than Evan winning.

 

[briancoogaert]

I rank Weir last in both actually. I dont think he is outrageously talented or anymore talented than Lysacek. I think anyone who underachieves even slightly gets their talented overrated by default, Sandhu is another example although he is much more talented than Weir, but still not as talented as he is potrayed which he wouldnt be if he had achieved his full potential. Abbott that is probably true of too, although I do still agree he is the most talented U.S male of that period.

Not to defend him, but Weir started skating late (at 11 ?) and was Junior World Champion at 16 or 17... in front of Lysacek.
Yes, Weir was a super very promising talent, as a young boy. Maybe not as talented as a senior (it's not the same category, the same body, the same expectations in term of qualities and choreographies : so for me, you can be talented as a junior and less as a senior).

 

[slipchuk]

Not to defend him, but Weir started skating late (at 11 ?) and was Junior World Champion at 16 or 17... in front of Lysacek.
Yes, Weir was a super very promising talent, as a young boy. Maybe not as talented as a senior (it's not the same category, the same body, the same expectations in term of qualities and choreographies : so for me, you can be talented as a junior and less as a senior).

That is what I think too. Weir started out as more talented but as an adult his talents didnt mature as well as Lysacek. Lysacek was the better skater IMO, not just the better competitor and harder worker. He was more dynamic, stronger jumps, better spins, much better footwork, more speed, and a more engaging and natural performer. Weir was more stylish, and a bit more musical, and that is it.

Atleast Lysacek vs Weir in talent, and Weir vs Abbott in achievements are fairly close, although I rank Weir behind and last of the trio in both achievements and talent. While Abbott vs Lysacek I rank Abbot way ahead in talent but way behind in achievements.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'd seen Lysacek live a handful of times before Vancouver, and I didn't love his skating. I still haven't seen any of the 2009 Worlds skates recorded.

Since Chan had been ill and injured the Fall before, I
didn't expect him to have much of a chance to win. I was hoping for gold for Takahashi and great skates for Kozuka plus a shot at bronze for Chan. I'd been going back and forth on Weir, because I disliked him under Zmievskaya.

But live in Vancouver, Takahashi's program sagged in the middle, while Lysacek's seemed like it was over in 30 seconds, and it appeared to get stronger as it went on, a momentum skate. They are so rare that they're a privilege to witness. It was as if he was an entirely different skater.

I can watch it now on video, and it doesn't have the same impact, but that's true in both directions for many skates, and also from different vantage points. Some qualities are more telegenic.

 

[moebius]

I equate Evan's Olympic win to Sarah Hughes Olympic win. Both are awkward skaters who had clean, but forgettable performances. I don't see them get invited to skating shows like others years after their Olympic win. Could be that they are not interested or had conflicts with their schedule, but if given the opportunity, why not take advantage of it?

 

[Kecasyl]

I equate Evan's Olympic win to Sarah Hughes Olympic win. Both are awkward skaters who had clean, but forgettable performances. I don't see them get invited to skating shows like others years after their Olympic win. Could be that they are not interested or had conflicts with their schedule, but if given the opportunity, why not take advantage of it?

What are you talking about? Lysacek did Stars on Ice for years after his win, as recently as the 2015 tour.

 

[caseyedwards]

I always found interesting that if you were to rank the 3 top US men at the time in terms of talent and potential -

1. Abbott
2. Weir
3. Lysacek

The results flip-flop perfectly in terms of consistency and results -

1. Lysacek
2. Weir
3. Abbott

BTW, I always thought EL's 2009 4CC performance was his best international performance. I think he did the 4T and 2 3A's?

And he lost to Chan. So thats why there was no quad.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I'd seen Lysacek live a handful of times before Vancouver, and I didn't love his skating. I still haven't seen any of the 2009 Worlds skates recorded.

Since Chan had been ill and injured the Fall before, I
didn't expect him to have much of a chance to win. I was hoping for gold for Takahashi and great skates for Kozuka plus a shot at bronze for Chan. I'd been going back and forth on Weir, because I disliked him under Zmievskaya.

But live in Vancouver, Takahashi's program sagged in the middle, while Lysacek's seemed like it was over in 30 seconds, and it appeared to get stronger as it went on, a momentum skate. They are so rare that they're a privilege to witness. It was as if he was an entirely different skater.

I can watch it now on video, and it doesn't have the same impact, but that's true in both directions for many skates, and also from different vantage points. Some qualities are more telegenic.

That's very, very unusual statement, imo...

 

[lala]

What are you talking about? Lysacek did Stars on Ice for years after his win, as recently as the 2015 tour.

Probably @moebius is talking about Japanese and European big shows.

 

[montrealsurfa]

I always found interesting that if you were to rank the 3 top US men at the time in terms of talent and potential -

1. Abbott
2. Weir
3. Lysacek

The results flip-flop perfectly in terms of consistency and results -

1. Lysacek
2. Weir
3. Abbott

BTW, I always thought EL's 2009 4CC performance was his best international performance. I think he did the 4T and 2 3A's?

I would rate them in terms of consistency and results:

1. Lysacek
2. Abbott
3. Weir

In terms of talent and potential:

1. Weir
2. Abbott
3. Lysacek

So I also have a complete flip on the order but I switcch Abbott and Weir on both. Weir IMO was the most talented but achieved the least. He is not an Olympic medalist, winner of a major international (Grand Prix final), or 4 time U.S Champion like Abbott.

 

[kwanfan1818]

That's very, very unusual statement, imo...

Inn the arena, sometimes skates just lose their energy and flow, and I remember a visceral "oh no" reaction. He got it back towards the end, but the impression was already there. I'd watched him live many times since 2004, and while I saw him skate messes, I hadn't seen that before.

Lysacek seemed only to gain momentum, something I'd never seen live from him before.

Vancouver Men took place in an alternate universe.

 

[olympic]

I still remember Vancouver quite clearly-

The results were fair : EL maximized his TES and hit all the accents. You could tell he was trained, ready and hungry even if he wasn't the most talented guy there. Plush had a 4T but his performance was just not memorable with a jump here and there off-kilter. I remember that Dai fell (?) on a quad attempt and also did not have the performance of the night. Lambiel due to injury just wasn't the skater he had been, and Chan had plenty of micro-mistakes

 

[Seerek]

IIRC, Evan had very few if any wire-to-wire wins in either his junior or senior career internationally. I believe the only "clear" win was 2009 Skate America in a rather weak field. All the other golds/medals he had to come from behind with a strong long program.

The lack of emphatic wins could also be a reason he's often overlooked as far as "champion" status is concerned.

 

[montrealsurfa]

I still remember Vancouver quite clearly-

The results were fair : EL maximized his TES and hit all the accents. You could tell he was trained, ready and hungry even if he wasn't the most talented guy there. Plush had a 4T but his performance was just not memorable with a jump here and there off-kilter. I remember that Dai fell (?) on a quad attempt and also did not have the performance of the night. Lambiel due to injury just wasn't the skater he had been, and Chan had plenty of micro-mistakes

Takahashi was absolutely undermarked in comparision to both Lysacek and Plushenko in both programs however. He should have won the short hands down, it isnt even a question and anyone who disputes this is an idiot. Evan was also overmarked compared to Plushenko in the short, although not in the long. I dont know if Dai neccessarily should have won, and perhaps even bronze was correct, but the scores in both programs were not. Lambiel nearly beat him for the bronze even though he missed over half the jumps he tried over the two programs.

 

[moebius]

What are you talking about? Lysacek did Stars on Ice for years after his win, as recently as the 2015 tour.

He only did SOI 2-3 years after his win. Not a lot of appearances compared to Todd Eldredge who was only a World Champion. He appeared in the show for more than 10 years.

 

[Kecasyl]

He only did SOI 2-3 years after his win. Not a lot of appearances compared to Todd Eldredge who was only a World Champion. He appeared in the show for more than 10 years.

I said for years not FOR TEN YEARS! Reading comprehension people!
He did 2010, 2011, 2015 and then was a guest star years before those.

He did not do the years in between where he was injured 2012, 2013, 2014.

 

[attyfan]

IMO, Evan's post-competitive career may have been adversely affected by things unrelated to the nature of his win. For example, he isn't in shows because skating's popularity has dropped in the US, and places where skating is popular and shows exist (like Russia and Japan) have their own "home country skaters".

 

[Jessica]

and anyone who disputes this is an idiot.

And anyone who makes a comment likes this is an idiot.

 

[dinakt]

IMO, Evan's post-competitive career may have been adversely affected by things unrelated to the nature of his win. For example, he isn't in shows because skating's popularity has dropped in the US, and places where skating is popular and shows exist (like Russia and Japan) have their own "home country skaters".

He is also not in shows because he repeatedly stated he does not like shows.
I rewatched Men's Olympic event. Sigh. There was nobody to choose from. The best and the brightest messed up that day.
With that, I know very well what @kwanfan1818 is referring to- about Evan's performance energy building. Every time I saw him live I've felt it. It was not beautiful skating, but it was committed skating, and I really felt it in the audience. During the Worlds 2009- over the course of 4 minutes my perception went from "meh" to "clean! clean again! lots of energy and and clean again! Bravo!" (I hoped for other skaters to deliver stellar performances, but it was not to be). In SOI, too- I felt his energy and commitment, and it made the performances stand out. I never saw Evan phone it in. He never was the skater I rooted for the most, but I admired his determination to make the best of his abilities.
Unfortunately, not one thing in his skating stood out to gain a large fan base- not exceptional musicality, or connection with audience, or jumps... so what remains most memorable is that Evan delivered when others did not.

 

[Cleo1782]

I would say Urmanov is the least memorable..
I have seen Evan skate forever and he doesn't translate as well on tv, but I thought his win was fair and square and due to work ethic and ability to control nerves. Evan just moved on from the sport quicker, so he may not be well remembered. I in fact enjoyed his skating. I think Sarah Hughes could be put in the category, but she was the best skater of the night. And she has a decent personality. She is just a blah Olympic Champion.