Emigrating out of the states? Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia?

[rfisher]

I’m trying so hard not to tease you about retiring to Moscow (solely based on your fandom.)

It would be St. Petersburg. I want to be Moskvina's roommate and listen to her stories.

 

[Miezekatze]

I read an article about how unpopular Germany is with expats btw and IIRC Panama was on top of the list as most popular.

 

[Vagabond]

Good thing I’ve been a Weaver/Poje, LaLa and Osmond fan. They’d have to let me in, right? I even rooted for Duhamel!

According to , Deanna Stellato-Dudek knows exactly which strings to pull.

 

[PRlady]

According to , Deanna Stellato-Dudek knows exactly which strings to pull.

I am also a competitive old lady but alas without her skills.

 

[TAHbKA]

I read an article about how unpopular Germany is with expats btw and IIRC Panama was on top of the list as most popular.

Why would it be? The weather is not hot/sunny, the language is not easy, not a 3rd world country. I can't imagine anyone wanting to retire to a nordic/north-ish country (unless they are from the middle east and sick of getting sunburnt every couple of days).

Though Berlin is super popular among the local it people.

 

[PRlady]

I loved Berlin and much prefer cold weather to hot. But my sister took German in college and groaned all the way through it, and I'm not good at obeying rigid rules. So I guess not.....

 

[Miezekatze]

My dream would actually be Finland, except for the part where it's too dark most of the year and then I wouldn't move to a country with a direct border to Putin, that wouldn't exactly improve the current situation.

I guess my most realistic bet would be Spain, since my employer already has an office there, but then I hate heat, so ...

I do actually know expats in Germany who seem to be happy or at least they stay...

 

[BlueRidge]

My friend who moved to Berlin in 2006 from the USA loves it there. But she's concerned about the rise of Neo-Nazis and adjacent hatemongers.

I don't think there is any good place to go, but then I wouldn't leave the US anyway.

 

[Miezekatze]

My friend who moved to Berlin in 2006 from the USA loves it there. But she's concerned about the rise of Neo-Nazis and adjacent hatemongers.

Well that’s obviously a global problem at the moment, but at least due to our last failure with fascism, we have built in a couple of more safety mechanisms in our political system, I’m trying to convince myself they’d hold in order to preserve the rest of my mental health

I was going to ask you if your friend is still in Berlin when I visited there a few months ago, but I kept forgetting. Glad she still enjoys it there.

I like Berlin. Hamburg and Cologne are also nice.

 

[BlueRidge]

Well that’s obviously a global problem at the moment, but at least due to our last failure with fascism, we have built in a couple of more safety mechanisms in our political system, I’m trying to convince myself they’d hold in order to preserve the rest of my mental health

I was going to ask you if your friend is still in Berlin when I visited there a few months ago, but I kept forgetting. Glad she still enjoys it there.

I like Berlin. Hamburg and Cologne are also nice.

Berlin suited her perfectly. She was able to arrive with no German and still get employment and ultimately learn the language. Of course not everyone can handle something like that. She's very social and outgoing. She likes Berlin because it is so open and for lack of a better term bohemian. She thought DC was dull and buttoned-up.

She has quite a few American ex-pat friends there too.

 

[ballettmaus]

My friend who moved to Berlin in 2006 from the USA loves it there. But she's concerned about the rise of Neo-Nazis and adjacent hatemongers.

I don't think there is any good place to go, but then I wouldn't leave the US anyway.

What I read from New Zealand sounds continuously not bad, however, it could be that we're just not getting enough news considering that it's on the other side of the world.

A former classmate moved from Germany (Berlin) to Singapore and loves it there. The only thing is that he's going to the doctor's in Bangkok because of Singapore's medical "privacy" laws.

His mother's new husband is from Switzerland and she loves it there and wouldn't mind moving there but her husband doesn't want to.
Another former classmate of mine did move to Switzerland. It the anniversary of the move this year and she posted that it was the best decision they made on Facebook on the occasion.

I heard Costa Rica is beautiful but I recently heard a podcast that was with someone who was working on a children's project in Costa Rica and, I was shocked to hear that the racism still seems to sit deep (she mentioned that the lighter your skin, the better your standing which sounds very 1800s colonialism).

I'd want to go somewhere where there's snow/four seasons anyway. I'm with Mietzekatze on Finland. I think weatherwise, I'd love it there but then there's Russia...

I read that quality of life in Iceland is pretty good.

 

[Miezekatze]

Yeah, Iceland would be super high on my list (and I think politically it's probably one of the best countries at the moment)

But of course it's even darker half of the year than in Finland AND I seriously doubt it's even possible to learn that language as a foreigner

Generally I think I actually would be able to adapt to most places, cause I’m pretty adaptable and don’t have high needs for socializing, but as a queer woman of course you already have to cross all countries off the list where you can’t be openly homosexual, so that puts a big limit on a lot of places and then like 2/3rd or 3/4 of the world have wacky governments,…and we can’t all move to the few sane places that are left.

The nicest version would certainly be if humanity tried to be a bit less shit and everybody could live happily where they are.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Hmmm....so Canada is out if that's the criteria. Pity as I could happily retire (again) to Vancouver Island.

They also make you hum your choice of “Take Five” or “Singing in the Rain” — although if you beg nicely, they’ll let you do a Celine Dion imitation— before they’ll let you recite the oath and they hand you your certificate of citizenship and an ill-fitting sweater vest.

 

[jlai]

Pretty sure it’s 180 days in a year for Americans coming to Canada. Same as it is for Canadians going to USA.

If the USA gets into a Civil war (I don’t think that will happen, but let’s pretend) I think Canada and Mexico would take people from USA as refugees.

What about UK or Mexico? Is it 180 days per year too for length of stay as a visitor?

 

[MacMadame]

I cheered for Kevin. Does that count? It was the hair.

I cheered for the hair. Does that count?

Part of why I want to move is finances, so I'm not sure Canada is a good choice that way. I mean it is cheaper. But not that much cheaper. It's not way cheaper like Mexico and Panama. Here is a comparison between Canada and USA on various measures:

Canada vs US: Cost of Living, Salary & Prices comparison

The average cost of living in Canada ($2053) is 18% less expensive than in the United States ($2504). Canada ranked 17th vs 10th for the United States in the list of the most expensive countries in the world. The average after-tax salary is enough to cover living expenses for 1.4 months in...

livingcost.org

 

[MacMadame]

Portugal is not a bad option for Americans looking to emigrate, though it's neither as easy nor as cheap as it used to be.

Our tri club's OWS coach and his wife retired there. Haven't moved back so I guess they like it.

Yeah, Iceland would be super high on my list (and I think politically it's probably one of the best countries at the moment)

COL is pretty high, though.

Another chart from the same place:

Iceland vs US comparison: Cost of Living, Prices, Salary

The average cost of living in Iceland ($3195) is 28% more expensive than in the United States ($2504). Iceland ranked 4th vs 10th for the United States in the list of the most expensive countries in the world. The average after-tax salary is enough to cover living expenses for 1.4 months in...

livingcost.org

The nicest version would certainly be if humanity tried to be a bit less shit and everybody could live happily where they are.

Wouldn't that be nice?

 

[PRlady]

I cheered for the hair. Does that count?

Part of why I want to move is finances, so I'm not sure Canada is a good choice that way. I mean it is cheaper. But not that much cheaper. It's not way cheaper like Mexico and Panama. Here is a comparison between Canada and USA on various measures:

Canada vs US: Cost of Living, Salary & Prices comparison

The average cost of living in Canada ($2053) is 18% less expensive than in the United States ($2504). Canada ranked 17th vs 10th for the United States in the list of the most expensive countries in the world. The average after-tax salary is enough to cover living expenses for 1.4 months in...

livingcost.org

Frankly, just getting out of Northern California would save you $. I’m stunned at the prices there and I don’t live in Podunk.

(One reason why I don’t want Gavin as nominee, affordable middle class life is not one of CA’s selling points.)

 

[TAHbKA]

I like East Europe. Would totally move to Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria (dismissing Romania and Hungary because of the language - both are too complicated).

 

[MsZem]

It would be St. Petersburg. I want to be Moskvina's roommate and listen to her stories.

Who wouldn't, right?

 

[MacMadame]

Frankly, just getting out of Northern California would save you $. I’m stunned at the prices there and I don’t live in Podunk.

If you are in tech, the salaries match. It's kind of like when people move to an area with a lower COL and drive up prices because they are (relatively) rich. It's everyone else who suffers.

 

[Spikefan]

I don't think there is any good place to go

What I read from New Zealand sounds continuously not bad, however, it could be that we're just not getting enough news considering that it's on the other side of the world.

I follow some NZ message boards. The cost of living is worse than here. There is also concern that if things deteriorate around the globe China will swoop in and take over the entire region. All that being said, if I could afford it I would move there. I absolutely loved it.

 

[Private Citizen]

What about UK or Mexico? Is it 180 days per year too for length of stay as a visitor?

The UK, for all of the drama around immigration, has very relaxed official rules. You are allowed to stay for up to 180 days per visit as a tourist. In theory, you can leave the UK after 180 days and re-enter the next day. There is no cooling off period, as in Schengen.

Unlike in Schengen, each entry into the country resets the clock. E.g., you come to the UK on 1st Jan. You take the Eurostar to Paris on 1st March. You're newly admitted, with a new clock, on 1st March and can theoretically stay until 1st September.

In practice, though, Border Force is likely to treat you with suspicion if you start spending too much time in the country, if they suspect you're living here, or that you don't intend to return to your home country. You would need a very compelling reason to re-enter shortly after a six-month stay, and you would most likely be denied admission without appeal if you tried to do so.

As with many things, there are the written rules and then the unwritten rules.... I don't have any advice as to what's the magic length of time you need to stay out of the country before re-entering. Border officials have tremendous discretion.

Keep in mind that you may become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days in the UK. Also keep in mind that renting any reasonably priced accommodation will be difficult. Landlords can be fined and even go to jail for renting to illegal immigrants. So you'd likely need to bounce around between Airbnbs and hotels.

 

[farahfan]

The Canadian system is points-based and works best for younger, highly skilled workers. If you're over 40 and especially if you're over 45, it's very hard to get the points you need to qualify for express entry. Canada and other countries with single payer healthcare generally don't want older or unhealthy people. Cancer and other adverse medical events may disqualify you from immigration entirely. Canada assesses whether you're likely to take more from the system than you'll put in, and will deny you if you're going to be a burden.

Not about Canada, but about emigration in general. I will say as a person who has emigrated:

1) Living abroad is a different experience, even when the language is (mostly) the same. The US-UK expat experience has (or used to have) the highest rate of failure. People move abroad and expect everything to be the same, except it isn't. When I moved to the UK, I had a group of 12 American friends on visas that gave them a path to stay in the UK indefinitely. Only two of us were still here after five years. The culture is entirely different, and there are still days where I feel like I'm an alien.

2) It's even more difficult when you don't speak the language. I toyed with the idea of moving to Italy at a couple of points. When I was there for six months, my language abilities improved, but I've accepted that my fluency is never going to reach a level where I can have deep connections with people. A lot of people on this board who write excellent English have expressed frustration that they can't express themselves as fully in English as in their native language. I never understood it until I tried to actually "live" in Italian. I felt like a 70% version of myself, at best. And that's a language I'm sort of competent with after a lot of effort and study. In France, I feel like the village idiot and have had to call for help in many situations. Restaurants and museums are equipped for tourists. Water and electricity companies, mobile phone and internet providers, etc. are not -- even in major cities. And don't expect a call center to speak English.

3) Being on a visa is no fun. Extra scrutiny. Always in the long queues. Especially in the global political climate, always worried that the rug could be pulled out from under you and your new life could collapse. Times to get permanent residency are starting to get longer and longer. The backlash against immigrants is growing everywhere. Consider how long it would take for you to get permanent residency and assess the risk of the rules changing during that period.

In your case, based on things you have posted, I wonder if relocating somewhere else in the US might be an easier option. Or at least something to try before you leave for another country.

I'm glad I did -- but I'm not sure I'd do it again. Italy closed down the path I used to claim citizenship. The UK is going to lengthen time for permanent residency to 10 years and citizenship to possibly 15. If I had to do it today, signing up to be on a heavily-restricted visa for 10 years.... I'd probably not do it.

Agree with what you say here. I lived abroad many years and if you're not talented at learning languages you'll be isolated. Even if you can speak the language, people aren't gonna accept you right away into their friend groups. It's not like California lol. You also earn a lot less in other countries unless you're a digital nomad of course.

 

[skategal]

What about UK or Mexico? Is it 180 days per year too for length of stay as a visitor?

I have no idea about UK.Sorry.

Pretty sure Mexico isn’t because Canada and Mexico regularly get in pissing matches about requiring Visas or other extra paperwork to visit.

 

[kedrin]

Also keep in mind that renting any reasonably priced accommodation will be difficult. Landlords can be fined and even go to jail for renting to illegal immigrants. So you'd likely need to bounce around between Airbnbs and hotels.

Curious: who is allowed to buy property in the UK? What are the requirements?

 

[Private Citizen]

Curious: who is allowed to buy property in the UK? What are the requirements?

Anyone can buy property. You can't just live in it. (Don't ask me to make it make sense.)

You cannot rent property without rigorous checks on your identity and proof of your right to live in the UK. While not strictly a requirement by law, a UK bank account (hell to open) is often de facto required.

 

[Rob]

My husband is a citizen of Mexico and the US. We are buying a place on the Yucatán coast north of Merida with the intention of spending considerable time there. The building is under construction, but should be ready the first half of next year. I can get residence if we want to stay more than 180 days.

 

[Winnipeg]

What about effecting change in the US instead of emigrating. AM I naive

 

[kedrin]

You cannot rent property without rigorous checks on your identity and proof of your right to live in the UK. While not strictly a requirement by law, a UK bank account (hell to open) is often de facto required.

I remember back in the day that setting up a UK bank account in 1986 was no problem for me as a US citizen. Too bad I didn't keep it!

 

[MacMadame]

Some info about emigrating to NZ

New Zealand loosens residency restrictions as record number of citizens leave

Minister for economic growth says visas for skilled and experienced migrants could help plug gaps in the workforce

www.theguardian.com