Emigrating out of the states? Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia?

jlai

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With so many unsettling things going on in the US, I'm wondering if others have been thinking about emigrating or retiring to live in a different county.
I mean, if things are volatile enough that I don't feel safe living in the states, going elsewhere is an option.

Here's my first question:
1) how difficult is the express entry application for Canada? What occupations are they looking for, and how does it work?
2) has anyone tried the retiring in COuntry X scheme or know a good one?
 
I know a family that emigrated to Spain using the digital nomad visa with the hope of eventual permanent residency.

I recently learned that it might be possible to gain Canadian residency because my grandmother was born there, but I don't think I'll pursue that.
 
The Canadian system is points-based and works best for younger, highly skilled workers. If you're over 40 and especially if you're over 45, it's very hard to get the points you need to qualify for express entry. Canada and other countries with single payer healthcare generally don't want older or unhealthy people. Cancer and other adverse medical events may disqualify you from immigration entirely. Canada assesses whether you're likely to take more from the system than you'll put in, and will deny you if you're going to be a burden.

Not about Canada, but about emigration in general. I will say as a person who has emigrated:

1) Living abroad is a different experience, even when the language is (mostly) the same. The US-UK expat experience has (or used to have) the highest rate of failure. People move abroad and expect everything to be the same, except it isn't. When I moved to the UK, I had a group of 12 American friends on visas that gave them a path to stay in the UK indefinitely. Only two of us were still here after five years. The culture is entirely different, and there are still days where I feel like I'm an alien.

2) It's even more difficult when you don't speak the language. I toyed with the idea of moving to Italy at a couple of points. When I was there for six months, my language abilities improved, but I've accepted that my fluency is never going to reach a level where I can have deep connections with people. A lot of people on this board who write excellent English have expressed frustration that they can't express themselves as fully in English as in their native language. I never understood it until I tried to actually "live" in Italian. I felt like a 70% version of myself, at best. And that's a language I'm sort of competent with after a lot of effort and study. In France, I feel like the village idiot and have had to call for help in many situations. Restaurants and museums are equipped for tourists. Water and electricity companies, mobile phone and internet providers, etc. are not -- even in major cities. And don't expect a call center to speak English.

3) Being on a visa is no fun. Extra scrutiny. Always in the long queues. Especially in the global political climate, always worried that the rug could be pulled out from under you and your new life could collapse. Times to get permanent residency are starting to get longer and longer. The backlash against immigrants is growing everywhere. Consider how long it would take for you to get permanent residency and assess the risk of the rules changing during that period.

In your case, based on things you have posted, I wonder if relocating somewhere else in the US might be an easier option. Or at least something to try before you leave for another country.

I'm glad I did -- but I'm not sure I'd do it again. Italy closed down the path I used to claim citizenship. The UK is going to lengthen time for permanent residency to 10 years and citizenship to possibly 15. If I had to do it today, signing up to be on a heavily-restricted visa for 10 years.... I'd probably not do it.
 
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Canada also has provincial nominations, though: you have to check out each provinces’/territories’ websites to find what jobs they’re looking to fill and go wherever those jobs are until you’re granted permanent residency. If they’re listed, the employer has already shown that they’ve looked internally. These are less skewed toward younger people. Some provinces like BC have relaxed the accreditation rules for licensed medical professionals for at least some countries, like the US, so that people don’t have to support themselves for a year while enrolling in classes to take the exams before they could practice. Also eldercare is something for which there were additional incentives as late as the teens: two years of continuous employment on a work visa would earn PR status instead of three.
 
I don’t think it’s easy at all unless you have tons of money.
I have been thinking of this since Trump’s first term.

I am just brain storming here.

If I was in my 30s or 40s and a software engineer I could find job in one of the countries of my choice (mostly big countries with English as official language).

Canada is very difficult to emigrate to, unless you go to school or find a job there and settle down later. UK is the sane way. have already retired (as an engineer, but not sure if they will me to teach at a university).

NZ requires a lot of money. I have already checked.

I recently discovered that my cousin’s son lives in NZ. He moved there for a job and now he is a citizen. I may try to find out through him if they are accepting immigrants.

Not sure about Australia, but I have another cousin whose son lives there. He could be a source of information.

To be honest I don’t want to move that far. That’s why Canada is number one on my list. UK will be ok too (but I won’t drive there). Cant move to Germany because they require German language proficiency for citizenship.

I think it is possible to start a business in another country (if their laws allow it), so if you are an IT professional it may be easy to relocate there.

In any case I am not sure my savings will be enough to survive in another country. Will I receive social security if I
Keep my bank account in the USA?

A few months ago I had read an article that listed 10 countries that Americans can emigrate to, for retirement. I probably lost the link. Most countries require less money than the ones I have mentioned. In most cases one moves there, then applies for permanent residency and then citizenship.

Some are affordable if you live away from big cities. Portugal is one of them.

So the incomplete list is-

Belize
Thailand
Portugal
Mexico
Panama
Costa Rica

I don’t remember the rest.
 
I found this article. I don’t know this agency but they claim that they can help.


25 countries

I wouldn’t mind moving to Scandinavia if I could afford it. I loved it there when I visited.
 
I’m going to second @Private Citizen on immigration. It’s hard.

The two years I lived fulltime in Israel I had a job, the family I married into, friends and about 50% Hebrew fluency in a country where most people I knew spoke English. Plus deep cultural familiarity- I didn’t have to learn about Jewish holidays or kosher restaurants or how to dress for an occasion (the answer to that last one is pretty much don’t bother.)

We had enough money, a car and nice apartment. I even had my cat. DH handled the bureaucracy and the water company etc. And it was STILL hard. And this was before the war and current trauma.

DH, fluent in English and with 8 years living in New York and Chicago in his past life, moved to DC with me in 2018, loves the city and my family and many things about America, and he still gets lonely and tired of the sheer effort it takes to do things in a second language and different culture. And he has all the advantages I had living in Israel. When I think of people coming here with hardly any money or skills or English I marvel at their bravery.

We love Italy and know we could never adjust to living there even if they let us in. Expat life only looks easy on House hunters International.
 
In any case I am not sure my savings will be enough to survive in another country. Will I receive social security if I
Keep my bank account in the USA?
The US currently has agreements with the countries on this list:
https://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html

You don't have to have your account in the US, but likely it has to be a US dollar account. For example, I have a USD account at my Vancouver, BC credit union. Then it would have to be converted to CAD. I've heard nightmares about the British banking system, which requires your firstborn child to open a checking account or get a credit card, unless your bank is international.
 
My siblings and I reinstated our mom's German citizenship under the "Basic Law" (allowing Jews and others wrongfully stripped of their citizenship by the Nazis by getting it reinstated either by the victims or by any descendants that would have been able to claim citizenship if it had not been stripped).
 
Cant move to Germany because they require German language proficiency for citizenship.
Well not that I’d recommend Germany, because i keep reading that most expats who move here hate it, because they feel Germans are unfriendly :lol: and the beauracracy is so bad, but you wouldn’t start emigrating to Germany with immediately gaining citizenship, so I’m sure if you or anyone put effort into it, you’d be able to obtain the necessary German skills in the years leading up to that. My horses veterinarian from Pakistan started in 2020 with no German skills at all and now his German is really good. But my vet clinic originally employed him with no German skills, even though he had direct customer contact (he was accompanied with a German speaking assistent at the beginning).

I think at least here the chances are best if you are either in IT or even better in the medical field in any capacity. People in the medical field are always needed. I could imagine it’s the same in many countries.

I saw a report on German tv today about Mexicans being mad about rich Americans taking over Mexico City, leaving them with no affordable housing :shuffle:

I think for me what is hardest is if you have family, I couldn’t move at the moment cause I have a horse and my elderly parents. So I wouldn’t move as long as they are alive, even if things in Germany got really bad. I’d guess that what makes it difficult for a lot of people, even more so than skills or money.
 
The Canadian system is points-based and works best for younger, highly skilled workers. If you're over 40 and especially if you're over 45, it's very hard to get the points you need to qualify for express entry. Canada and other countries with single payer healthcare generally don't want older or unhealthy people. Cancer and other adverse medical events may disqualify you from immigration entirely. Canada assesses whether you're likely to take more from the system than you'll put in, and will deny you if you're going to be a burden.

Not about Canada, but about emigration in general. I will say as a person who has emigrated:

1) Living abroad is a different experience, even when the language is (mostly) the same. The US-UK expat experience has (or used to have) the highest rate of failure. People move abroad and expect everything to be the same, except it isn't. When I moved to the UK, I had a group of 12 American friends on visas that gave them a path to stay in the UK indefinitely. Only two of us were still here after five years. The culture is entirely different, and there are still days where I feel like I'm an alien.

2) It's even more difficult when you don't speak the language. I toyed with the idea of moving to Italy at a couple of points. When I was there for six months, my language abilities improved, but I've accepted that my fluency is never going to reach a level where I can have deep connections with people. A lot of people on this board who write excellent English have expressed frustration that they can't express themselves as fully in English as in their native language. I never understood it until I tried to actually "live" in Italian. I felt like a 70% version of myself, at best. And that's a language I'm sort of competent with after a lot of effort and study. In France, I feel like the village idiot and have had to call for help in many situations. Restaurants and museums are equipped for tourists. Water and electricity companies, mobile phone and internet providers, etc. are not -- even in major cities. And don't expect a call center to speak English.

3) Being on a visa is no fun. Extra scrutiny. Always in the long queues. Especially in the global political climate, always worried that the rug could be pulled out from under you and your new life could collapse. Times to get permanent residency are starting to get longer and longer. The backlash against immigrants is growing everywhere. Consider how long it would take for you to get permanent residency and assess the risk of the rules changing during that period.

In your case, based on things you have posted, I wonder if relocating somewhere else in the US might be an easier option. Or at least something to try before you leave for another country.

I'm glad I did -- but I'm not sure I'd do it again. Italy closed down the path I used to claim citizenship. The UK is going to lengthen time for permanent residency to 10 years and citizenship to possibly 15. If I had to do it today, signing up to be on a heavily-restricted visa for 10 years.... I'd probably not do it.

I would definitely consider moving to California before moving to another country, if it works out financially. Although Arizona is a red state, I like living here. So I have not made serious efforts to move to another state.

If we lose SS and Medicare, it won’t matter what US state I move to. So I need a back up plan. I am highly educated and experienced but I am not inthe age group you mentioned. So I will have to move as a retiree to another country. I am not ready for that. I am going to wait and see what happens.
 
When considering where to emigrate, I'd also keep an eye on politics. Italy has Meloni, in Germany, the AfD is on the rise, Austria has a government that's to the right as well.
Then there's Russia and the unknown of what will happen there.

I think there are some great countries to emigrate to in Europe, however, when looking for a country to settle in, I'm not sure I'd go with Europe at the moment because of political uncertainty.
 
People do immigrate to other countries and live in expat enclaves happily. If you watch the (multiples of 7) "Up" films by Michael Apted, Tony and his wife brought property in Spain where the town had been turned into mini-Britain.

My grandparents didn't know a word of English before they came to the US as teenagers, and all four were fluent English speakers by the time I was born/they were in their late 40's/early 50's, and, I assume, many years before that, despite speaking Yiddish at home. But many of the grandparents who lived with family in the town where I grew up had been in America for the same length of time, and barely spoke any English, because they didn't need to.
 
These are uncertain times. If the politics and economy are bad enough that toughing it out is harder than adjusting to a new culture, I want to try it.

When my house has no power we have candles and may even get a backup generator.

So another country is that generator back up.

I lived through times where the society wa torn apart by political disagreement. I have seen this and not so long ago in another world. Trust me, this is going downhill fast. I have seen how it affects the economy long term, maybe not today but people don’t invest under wild uncertainty. It will show up in a few years.

I think for me Malaysia is an option. Philippines also.
If we stay in this side of the world there is Costa Rica and Belize etc
 
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I think for me Malaysia is an option. Philippines also.
Have you been to either? I would never want to live in Philippines. It was fun being there for a week or so as a tourist with the money, but living there???

My mother immigrated when she was 43. She was a software engineer, but she was never able to find a decent job - her salary was always less than what a software student is offered. She never learned Hebrew well enough to communicate and even though she lives in a very Russian speaking city she didn't make any friends and does not have anyone to socialize with. Obviously, she ended up being much better off than she would be had she stayed and am not even comparing what my life would be like had we stayed- she made a 100% right decision. But then my mother was not escaping one president she did not like who would be replaced in 3 years anyway (to give a perspective: my primary school best friend is now a refugee in Poland).
 
Have you been to either? I would never want to live in Philippines. It was fun being there for a week or so as a tourist with the money, but living there???

My mother immigrated when she was 43. She was a software engineer, but she was never able to find a decent job - her salary was always less than what a software student is offered. She never learned Hebrew well enough to communicate and even though she lives in a very Russian speaking city she didn't make any friends and does not have anyone to socialize with. Obviously, she ended up being much better off than she would be had she stayed and am not even comparing what my life would be like had we stayed- she made a 100% right decision. But then my mother was not escaping one president she did not like who would be replaced in 3 years anyway (to give a perspective: my primary school best friend is now a refugee in Poland).wouldn’t be
Escaping a president isn’t a reason to move but there are certain kinds of instability that would make the move feasible.

I have seen societies split apart and violence being an issue once the political disagreement got ugly. Massive inflation that changes my portfolio significantly is another deal breaker (if it happens that is)

I can’t elaborate without getting into details but I know what my threshold is

To me this is no different from planning for a blackout or retirement. You keep your options open so you are not stuck with no options when things go sour.

It is not as if
I am planning to move tomorrow ;)

But knowing your options is always good. That is like making sure you have your power generator and candles and your basic disaster kit with you. But you hope you don’t need it
 
@jlai from what you’ve posted I gather you may be Diaspora Chinese. If that’s so, then I know there are big communities of overseas Chinese in many Asian countries. But as some of us have said, having a contingent of your people around doesn’t guarantee ease of living….

At any rate, I do understand to be prepared for all contingencies. Good luck.
 
When my once extended family experienced political turmoil the first time many of them looked for routes to emigrate. They tried it and some did return to where they once lived. Others went back and forth between the old and new land.

But the point isn’t actually moving, it’s about the peace of mind that comes with the having a backup option. Some of my distant cousins ended up not using that option and some did.
 
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I don’t think it’s easy at all unless you have tons of money.
Isn't everything? :lol:
Canada is very difficult to emigrate to, unless you go to school or find a job there and settle down later.
Speaking of... read this yesterday:

When my once extended family experienced political turmoil the first time many of them looked for routes to emigrate. They tried it and some did return to where they once lived. Others went back and forth between the old and new land.
My stepfather experienced his. The whole family started out in China but over the years, they all moved out to various countries, including the US. My stepfather was sent to the countryside during the Cultural Revolution, and when he got out, they said he was too old to go to college and that's how he ended up here. By the time of the massacre at Tiananmen Square, only his parents and a cousin were left but after that, his parents moved away. They didn't pick one country, but moved around, staying with different siblings and their own kids, moving every 3-6 months. Until they got too old for that and ended up here too so their kids here could take care of them.

Living somewhere with political turmoil is, as @jlai says, hard. The morning that they declared martial law in China, stepfather's mom had biked to the train station to visit her sister in Hong Kong. We didn't hear from her for a week! We had no idea if she had made it or was rotting in jail somewhere. (I mean we figured most likely she had made it. But we didn't know.) Not fun.
 
My own thoughts about my own situation:

I started looking for somewhere else to live as part of retirement planning. It's expensive here in California and I have lots of friends who have emigrated to other countries to save money (and, for some of them, adventure). They are all over, in the Philippines, Singapore, Portugal, and Mexico, mostly. I have looked at all the usual suspects for other countries and have looked for other places in the US too. Mr Mac's parents are gone, most of his family and all of my extended family are on the other coast and my mom is getting too old to travel. So we thought about living on that coast. But we'd be far away from our own kids. (And his sister and their family.)

I haven't seriously looked at Europe. I thought about Ireland due to ancestral ties but I think it's too far north for me. It has less than half of the sun hours as where I am. I need a lot of sun and I don't think they have enough sunny days.

I think, if you are going to move somewhere, you really need to visit long enough to see if you vibe with the place. I had Costa Rica on my list until I visited there. Panama is still on the list. But on that trip, I just loved Guatemala. I have no idea what it's like to retire there and live there full-time though. I also really loved Vancouver when I was there for the GPF. But I don't think they have enough sunny days, either. They have 63% of the sun of my town (on average) and it's definitely colder.

I have friends who tried to convince me to move to Belize but I have never even been there. Mr Mac might like it because English is the official language. He doesn't want to leave the country though. I kind of do. I'm ready for some adventure.

I think, in the end, Mexico makes more sense for us as we could drive to see our daughter and other family easily and both of us learned Spanish in school. I was able to converse comfortably about basic things and could read literature in Spanish and write essays on it. I am hoping it would come back if immersed. I don't think Mr Mac ever got to that level. And he doesn't want to learn it again anyway.

I don't really care about getting citizenship. But I wouldn't like to have to move constantly due to not getting PR.
 
My own thoughts about my own situation:

I started looking for somewhere else to live as part of retirement planning. It's expensive here in California and I have lots of friends who have emigrated to other countries to save money (and, for some of them, adventure). They are all over, in the Philippines, Singapore, Portugal, and Mexico, mostly. I have looked at all the usual suspects for other countries and have looked for other places in the US too. Mr Mac's parents are gone, most of his family and all of my extended family are on the other coast and my mom is getting too old to travel. So we thought about living on that coast. But we'd be far away from our own kids. (And his sister and their family.)

I haven't seriously looked at Europe. I thought about Ireland due to ancestral ties but I think it's too far north for me. It has less than half of the sun hours as where I am. I need a lot of sun and I don't think they have enough sunny days.

I think, if you are going to move somewhere, you really need to visit long enough to see if you vibe with the place. I had Costa Rica on my list until I visited there. Panama is still on the list. But on that trip, I just loved Guatemala. I have no idea what it's like to retire there and live there full-time though. I also really loved Vancouver when I was there for the GPF. But I don't think they have enough sunny days, either. They have 63% of the sun of my town (on average) and it's definitely colder.

I have friends who tried to convince me to move to Belize but I have never even been there. Mr Mac might like it because English is the official language. He doesn't want to leave the country though. I kind of do. I'm ready for some adventure.

I think, in the end, Mexico makes more sense for us as we could drive to see our daughter and other family easily and both of us learned Spanish in school. I was able to converse comfortably about basic things and could read literature in Spanish and write essays on it. I am hoping it would come back if immersed. I don't think Mr Mac ever got to that level. And he doesn't want to learn it again anyway.

I don't really care about getting citizenship. But I wouldn't like to have to move constantly due to not getting PR.
My hair stylist was very high on moving to Portugal until she visited it. Then she visited Spain and she loved it. She is still exploring, I think. I am not quite ready to leave the country, but I want to keep some in mind, just in case it becomes impossible to live here, like no Medicare for example.
 
Portugal is not a bad option for Americans looking to emigrate, though it's neither as easy nor as cheap as it used to be.

Levels of spoken English are high. You will be able to get by even without Portuguese. Even call centers and utilities will speak English. You'll find an anglophone group to be part of.

You can probably get a professional job working in English, if you desire. Many workplaces, especially tech ones, conduct business in English. Portugal has many "near shore" tech hubs.

Quality of life will be similar to what you've come to expect in the US.

Prices are reasonable, though high for locals. And like many places there is growing resentment against comparatively rich foreigners coming in and driving up prices (especially housing) for locals.
 
Here is another question: I understand that Americans can enter Canada and Mexico and stay for 180 days. Can you enter Canada and stay for 180 days every year? Or can you stay 180 days and return, and go stay for 180 days? Is there a limit to the 180 days? I know in eu they have that 90 day Schengen thing which is easier to understand for me.

Thanks for those who provide information on Europe and Canada and other places
 
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Very much agree with those cautioning that there's a big, potentially enormous difference between visiting a place and living there, particularly if you are not entirely fluent in the local language. And the bad news is that there's bad news everywhere - to that end I highly recommended following local news sites for awhile to get a more real picture of what it's like for those who actually live in the country/region/city you are interested in.

Case in point, this Canadian is also seriously considering options right now.
 
Here is another question: I understand that Americans can enter Canada and Mexico and stay for 180 days. Can you enter Canada and stay for 180 days every year? Or can you stay 180 days and return, and go stay for 180 days? Is there a limit to the 180 days? I know in eu they have that 90 day Schengen thing which is easier to understand for me.

Thanks for those who provide information on Europe and Canada and other places
Pretty sure it’s 180 days in a year for Americans coming to Canada. Same as it is for Canadians going to USA.

If the USA gets into a Civil war (I don’t think that will happen, but let’s pretend) I think Canada and Mexico would take people from USA as refugees.
 
Pretty sure it’s 180 days in a year for Americans coming to Canada. Same as it is for Canadians going to USA.

If the USA gets into a Civil war (I don’t think that will happen, but let’s pretend) I think Canada and Mexico would take people from USA as refugees.
Good thing I’ve been a Weaver/Poje, LaLa and Osmond fan. They’d have to let me in, right? I even rooted for Duhamel!
 
Good thing I’ve been a Weaver/Poje, LaLa and Osmond fan. They’d have to let me in, right? I even rooted for Duhamel!
Hmmm....so Canada is out if that's the criteria. Pity as I could happily retire (again) to Vancouver Island.
 

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