College administration bribery scandal

Prancer said:
Isn't this the same investigation? :confused:
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Possibly, but inasmuch as his foundation and his business weren't charged with anything despite apparently illegal activity, I think there is a very good chance that they were being investigated separately.
 
Jenny said:
Like say, how Trump and his kids got into A-list schools and managed to get degrees in the process? Just sayin'
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I processed Ivanka's application to Penn. She was wait-listed (which I suspect was used to generate some $$$$$). B student at Choate Rosemary; very mediocre SATs. Somewhere, I have/had proof of this. If I ever find it (looking for it in my latest move), I'm going to leak it to the press. :EVILLE:
 
Vagabond said:
Not anymore. Its undergraduate acceptance rate for 2018 was 13%.

https://news.usc.edu/139338/usc-acceptance-rate-fall-2018-admission/
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My son in-law went to the Annenberg school there as an older student after two (honors) years at community college. He did well and got a great job out of college, but he was lucky. Some of their schools, including Annenberg and especially the film school, are really selective.

The Trojan network is insanely strong in the job market.
 
Louis said:
I processed Ivanka's application to Penn. She was wait-listed (which I suspect was used to generate some $$$$$). B student at Choate Rosemary; very mediocre SATs. Somewhere, I have/had proof of this. If I ever find it (looking for it in my latest move), I'm going to leak it to the press. :EVILLE:
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And still she seems like the smarter one among Trump and Ivanka's Ivana's children (ETA: oops).

Trump's grades must truly be a sight.
 
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FWIW here is the statement from the Department of Justice about the charges. And to add a new level of appalling to this situation, it appears that the guy at the center of it all set up a "charitable foundation" so that the parents didn't pay the bribes directly to him, but to his charity. Which means that the parents were then able to write off the bribes on their tax returns, as charitable donations. Disgusting :mad:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/...dmissions-scam-alleged-exam-cheating-athletic
 
Debbie S said:
It seems like there needs to be a separate investigation of the College Board. How would a test proctor have the correct answers to the entire SAT test in his/her possession? I suppose the person could be a genius who would know all the answers but that seems unlikely.
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According to news articles, it sounds like a tennis coach, Mark Riddell, is the person who took or changed most of the tests. It seems there were a couple different methods. In one example, he would fly into Houston and the actual proctor there would facilitate the situation so he could change the tests. Even if the student was in CA, they would schedule the student for the test in Houston. In another example, he would fly into CA and act as the proctor and then help while the student took the test or make changes afterward. The news said he was gifted at calculating his test answers to achieve the increase in score the student needed, but not so much improvement it would be called into question.

He must have been in good standing with the testing companies if he had the flexibility to fly around and do all of this. It said he took both SAT and ACT. Also it said he was tennis coach to the Obama family. :eek:
 
overedge said:
FWIW here is the statement from the Department of Justice about the charges. And to add a new level of appalling to this situation, it appears that the guy at the center of it all set up a "charitable foundation" so that the parents didn't pay the bribes directly to him, but to his charity. Which means that the parents were then able to write off the bribes on their tax returns, as charitable donations. Disgusting :mad:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/...dmissions-scam-alleged-exam-cheating-athletic
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Yup. You can get caught with tax evasion before a lot of things. That’s what finally ended Al Capone. The feds couldn’t get him for his actual mobster activity.
 
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Artistic Skaters said:
According to news articles, it sounds like a tennis coach, Mark Riddell, is the person who took or changed most of the tests. It seems there were a couple different methods. In one example, he would fly into Houston and the actual proctor there would facilitate the situation so he could change the tests. Even if the student was in CA, they would schedule the student for the test in Houston. In another example, he would fly into CA and act as the proctor and then help while the student took the test or make changes afterward. The news said he was gifted at calculating his test answers to achieve the increase in score the student needed, but not so much improvement it would be called into question.
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Some of the information about the Canadian philanthropist who has been charged (David Sidoo) said that Sidoo sent copies of his sons' driving licenses and student IDs to someone in the US. That someone then made fake versions of of the IDs with his photo in place of the sons' photos. Then this person came to Vancouver with the fake IDs and sat the test in place of the sons. This allegedly happened twice, for the older son's college entrance tests (like the SAT) and for what the documents describe as the younger son's "Canadian high school graduation exams". I think this must mean the provincial exams for some of the Grade 12 courses, because the grades from those exams are usually used for admissions.


The name of the imposter is redacted from the documents I saw, but like what @Artistic Skaters is describing, Mr. Redacted was able to get higher marks on the "rewrite" but not with a large enough difference that there would be suspicion. But looking at the photos of Riddell online - it's not impossible for someone who looks that all-American to have a South Asian surname, but it's unlikely. The company that arranged the cheating may have had more than one imposter working for them....
 
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Artistic Skaters said:
Also it said he was tennis coach to the Obama family. :eek:
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I thought that was Ernst, the tennis coach at Georgetown, who gave the Obama girls tennis lessons. Malia went to Harvard, so Ernst couldn't recommend her for the tennis team at Harvard because he only had influence at Georgetown. So bringing the Obama girls into it is just RW fake news. The athletic coaches and students weren't looking for athletic scholarships, but trying to use that way to get into the school as a 'favored' person due to sport excellence. Women's crew is kind of genius, because it's more a niche sport unlike say basketball, and not many follow the sport to notice that Zcelebchild isn't really competing in it. It does crack me up that Lori Laughlin's daughter has tried to develop a 'brand' about her being in college, all while saying she just likes to party and watch football games. lol. I predict USC will expel her, or just not let her come back for fall semester. Also, Lori is a working actress filming in Canada with three more gigs in pre-production. Can an American arrested on felony charges still work in Canada? She's not convicted (yet) so I think she'd still be able to, but I don't know Canadian law.

Frankly, I think EVERY child who got in through these means should be automatically expelled. Yes, it's not their fault if they didn't know about it, but tough s*. Maybe their parents will learn a lesson on not cheating/bribing when darling daughter gets expelled from Yale or Stanford.
 
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WillyElliot said:
Frankly, I think EVERY child who got in through these means should be automatically expelled. Yes, it's not their fault if they didn't know about it, but tough s*. Maybe their parents will learn a lesson on not cheating/bribing when darling daughter gets expelled from Yale or Stanford.
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I don't see how that helps anyone. The parents will face legal (and reputational) consequences, as well they should. That's the lesson right there. But expelling the students does not help those whose place they took, and may well punish people who did nothing wrong themselves. They already know that their parents did not have faith in them, that their admission was not merit-based, and that people will be looking for them to fail.

If an investigation clears any of the students of any wrongdoing, I think they deserve the chance to prove that they belong where they are. The standard for this should be high, however, and not just for them to get by.
 
College applications are full of statements and disclaimers you have to sign about how the information you're providing is truthful. Also, I think they require that you certify you are the one answering the questions on the application.

So on that basis alone they are probably going to be able to expel several of these students. Because, for example, if you apply as a water polo player when you've never played water polo, you know you're lying.

But there are also students caught up in this who probably didn't know their SAT answers were changed after they took the exam.

I read one excerpt where the mom was asking for advice as to how she could stop her daughter from trying to take the exam again. The kid wanted to do better but the mom had already fixed it so that she didn't need to. I'm not sure what a University should do with a student like that. If you're the unwitting beneficiary of fraud, and since you got into school you've been doing the work and doing well, what should your consequences be?
 
Zemgirl said:
I don't see how that helps anyone. The parents will face legal (and reputational) consequences, as well they should. That's the lesson right there. But expelling the students does not help those whose place they took, and may well punish people who did nothing wrong themselves. They already know that their parents did not have faith in them, that their admission was not merit-based, and that people will be looking for them to fail.

If an investigation clears any of the students of any wrongdoing, I think they deserve the chance to prove that they belong where they are. The standard for this should be high, however, and not just for them to get by.
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Yes, and no. So the richie rich parents get a slap on the wrist and plead down to some silly misdemeanor and just pay a fine, and their life goes on and darling child will still get that Stanford degree that they never deserved in the first place. I think an iron fist is needed here in this case, so that the 1% won't continue doing this. (They still will but will probably donate money directly to the school next time like they used to)

But I do see your point about not expelling the students who clearly had no idea. Still, expulsion IMO needs to be done to set the precedent that this will not be tolerated. But really, what high school kid wouldn't be aware of the shenanigans going on? "Hmm, I first made a 1020 on my SAT but Mommy paid someone and the second time around I got a 1420". Also the fake disability thing. They'd surely know they are in on the ruse. Uggh. Don't get me started on faking disability. (That just got me thinking WEHT Blair Hornstine, the "disabled" high school student who sued to be the sole valedictorian, god that was 15, 20 years ago. Her acceptance to Harvard was rescinded and she had to go somewhere else. I wonder if she was disabled in college too.... *eyeroll*)
 
Skittl1321 said:
If you buy stolen goods that you didn't know were stolen, you don't get to keep them....
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If it's real estate, though, you do get to keep it as long as you paid for it. (See bona fide purchaser for value.)

This is not a clear-cut situation. If you've been paying tuition and you had no idea your admittance was through fraud I would say you are a bona fide purchaser. Obviously education is not real estate but I don't think this is a clear-cut situation.
 
Skittl1321 said:
If you buy stolen goods that you didn't know were stolen, you don't get to keep them....
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Since minor league sports came up earlier... there have been some cases in recent years in which baseball teams were involved in shenanigans signing international free agents - that's the Latin American kids who can sign in July after they turn 16. When such shenanigans come to light, the teams are punished and the contracts may be cancelled by MLB - but the kids get to keep the money and to sign with a different organization for even more money (look up Kevin Maitan for an example of someone who benefited from this).

Is that ideal? No, it's not. But if the players, who sign as minors, were not at fault, there's no sense in punishing them. I think it's somewhat similar to the situation here: if the students were not involved, it's not like expelling them will provide an opportunity for someone more deserving who was not accepted, and the people who should be held responsible are those who perpetrated the fraud. That's the adults.
 
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The most important outtake from this is to stop a minute and think of all the students of color who have been made to feel they’re only in the good schools because of affirmative action.

White/rich privilege has operated for years before this, with legacy admissions, big donations like the Kushners and scholarships for sports like crew and sailing that only have facilities at rich private schools. But it’s the poor black kid who survived the ghetto school with a perfect GPA and good but not great SATs who “stole someone’s spot.”
 
WillyElliot said:
Yes, and no. So the richie rich parents get a slap on the wrist and plead down to some silly misdemeanor and just pay a fine, and their life goes on and darling child will still get that Stanford degree that they never deserved in the first place. I think an iron fist is needed here in this case, so that the 1% won't continue doing this. (They still will but will probably donate money directly to the school next time like they used to)
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I think they'll try to make an example out at least some of the parents. And federal prison isn't fun, even if you're super-privileged.

We've haven't heard of all the details and cases yet. If the FBI says that some of the kids had no idea, I'm inclined to believe them.
 
I work in a very affluent area of California and the only thing I was surprised by is that this made the news and that articles used words like "shocking" or "scandal". For me, this is pretty standard. Things like people taking SATs for other students, paying off teachers for grades, downright writing essays for certain classes and college applications, paying off doctors to diagnose kids with ADHD so they get extended time during exams, etc. I guess from my point of view, I'm more familiar with kids cheating themselves in high school as opposed to paying off colleges. Disgusting and infuriating but not a surprise at all.
 
Coco said:
If it's real estate, though, you do get to keep it as long as you paid for it. (See bona fide purchaser for value.)

This is not a clear-cut situation. If you've been paying tuition and you had no idea your admittance was through fraud I would say you are a bona fide purchaser. Obviously education is not real estate but I don't think this is a clear-cut situation.
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Please. The parents are paying for the education in 99% of these situations, and they are the ones who knew what was up. Yes, they need to be expelled because letting them benefit is precisely the wrong message to send to other parents thinking of the same thing.
 
rhapsody said:
I work in a very affluent area of California and the only thing I was surprised by is that this made the news and that articles used words like "shocking" or "scandal". For me, this is pretty standard. Things like people taking SATs for other students, paying off teachers for grades, downright writing essays for certain classes and college applications, paying off doctors to diagnose kids with ADHD so they get extended time during exams, etc. I guess from my point of view, I'm more familiar with kids cheating themselves in high school as opposed to paying off colleges. Disgusting and infuriating but not a surprise at all.
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I think the shocking part is that this was a widespread coordinated scheme that went on for several years, rather than it being rogue parents operating on their own. Also that it involved tax evasion/fraud through the payments to the fixer's "charity".
 
rhapsody said:
I work in a very affluent area of California and the only thing I was surprised by is that this made the news and that articles used words like "shocking" or "scandal". For me, this is pretty standard. Things like people taking SATs for other students, paying off teachers for grades, downright writing essays for certain classes and college applications, paying off doctors to diagnose kids with ADHD so they get extended time during exams, etc. I guess from my point of view, I'm more familiar with kids cheating themselves in high school as opposed to paying off colleges. Disgusting and infuriating but not a surprise at all.
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This started back in the 90s. Or chronic fatigue (the Blair Hornstine situation was a perfect example). A friend I knew in dental school actually was able to take her boards with extended time after failing twice, citing her pathologic test anxiety!! I think she still failed it though and had to do remedial studying, but still who doesn't get test anxiety? Another friend is a professor at a medical school (not a good one, but still an MD from there counts) and they had the biggest problem with a very litigious med student who claimed some disability like ADHD or that she "needs more time to process information". She was one problem after another and she basically sued her way to an MD degree. I don't think she was accepted to any residency program. Word got out she was a hot potato, so she got what she deserved.
 
skatfan said:
Please. The parents are paying for the education in 99% of these situations, and they are the ones who knew what was up. Yes, they need to be expelled because letting them benefit is precisely the wrong message to send to other parents thinking of the same thing.
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You're speaking about morals, and I'm speaking about the law. The student is the one who owes the tuition. Somebody might pay it on their behalf but the student is the purchaser.

And with people this rich, the check to the school might very well be coming from either a trust or the student. Rich people funnel their money around in complicated ways.
 
Coco said:
You're speaking about morals, and I'm speaking about the law. The student is the one who owes the tuition. Somebody might pay it on their behalf but the student is the purchaser.

And with people this rich, the check to the school might very well be coming from either a trust or the student. Rich people funnel their money around in complicated ways.
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Ah, well, as you say, it may ride on technical matters - but we do know what should happen.

I would love to see what the students have to affirm when they send their applications in regarding truthfulness and completeness. If bogus SAT scores were submitted as theirs, I can imagine that there would be consequences. If they said they were water polo players and weren't, also a problem. I'm sure there are registrars and deans pouring over these matters as we speak.
 
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