College administration bribery scandal

millyskate

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Sometimes I think the traditional French uni model wasn't all that bad.
You had to go to the one closest to your home, you'd get in automatically if you'd passed your BAC, you got a means-tested stipend to help you through, but once you were in the end of year exams were darn hard and if you hadn't worked hard or weren't suited to the subject you just failed, end of. Very many did and still do. French unis had no qualms about dishing out the 2/20 or 0.5/20 marks if the paper was poor, sometimes, to the whole class!
You'd get to try the next year again, and the year after that, but nobody was going to babysit you into passing. Having money didn't help you one iota, the students of the whole country still got to sit in graffiti-covered amphitheatres built in 1957 ish that sometimes still had ink-wells on the desks.
All exams were in-class on tables, hand-written. Or vivas where you picked the topic out of a hat going in. So plagiarism wasn't a thing at least...

It's been slowly moving away from that model in the past 15 years, but there was something very democratic about it.
 
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Zemgirl

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Sometimes I think the traditional French uni model wasn't all that bad.

...

It's been slowly moving away from that model in the past 15 years, but there was something very democratic about it.
Though that doesn't quite apply when you're looking at who is doing prepas and getting into the top grandes ecoles, right? Was that different in the past? People do still have to do the work and ace their exams to be considered for the more selective places, but I get the sense those admissions classes aren't the most diverse.

(I don't know how to do accents on this keyboard, sorry ;) )
 

millyskate

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Though that doesn't quite apply when you're looking at who is doing prepas and getting into the top grandes ecoles, right? Was that different in the past? People do still have to do the work and ace their exams to be considered for the more selective places, but I get the sense those admissions classes aren't the most diverse.

(I don't know how to do accents on this keyboard, sorry ;) )
It is free and very much a pure competition based on raw academic ability though - a national ranking with nothing factored in apart from how much you scored on a very difficult test. And there are more and more access programs at the top "lycees" for prepa integration, giving people from low-performing schools a year to catch up before doing the 2 year admission course.
Low-income CROUS scholarships are available for those as well, just like they are for university.

Of course, the most selective courses will generally attract a majority of candidates from families where studying conditions are favourable. But at least, you can't really be priced out or denied an opportunity by an academically weaker candidate with more money...
You're right it's not a silver bullet but at least it mitigates some of the problems.
 

Zemgirl

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Of course, the most selective courses will generally attract a majority of candidates from families where studying conditions are favourable. But at least, you can't really be priced out or denied an opportunity by an academically weaker candidate with more money...
You're right it's not a silver bullet but at least it mitigates some of the problems.
Yes, it's more of a systemic issue of who can afford to compete rather than who can afford to avoid competing entirely. More equal, but not perfect.

A couple of years ago I was at one of those schools when they were doing the final rounds of testing or interviews or whatever it is. I think I saw one black guy among the many young people in suits. I hope he made it.

My issues with test anxiety would have kept me out for sure.
 

Prancer

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So plagiarism wasn't a thing at least...
Maybe not 15 years ago (although I find that very hard to believe), but I can think of several studies in the last 10 years in which fairly high percentages of French university students were found to have plagiarized--not the highest percentage in European schools, but not the lowest, either.
 

Vagabond

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You had to go to the one closest to your home, you'd get in automatically if you'd passed your BAC
That worked because the national government controlled tertiary education. That isn't remotely how things have ever worked in the U.S. The closest parallel I can think of here is the two-year community college system, where anyone with a high school diploma or the equivalent can enroll, usually either without paying for tuition or paying only a very small fee.
 

Artistic Skaters

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Important not to be missed headlines from the news this week --

"Lori Loughlin Regrets Khaki Pantsuit and Smiling So Much on Her Way to Court"

I guess I didn't realize the pantsuit was a big problem with her case. :lol:
 

Vagabond

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Important not to be missed headlines from the news this week --

"Lori Loughlin Regrets Khaki Pantsuit and Smiling So Much on Her Way to Court"

I guess I didn't realize the pantsuit was a big problem with her case. :lol:
Were you expecting her to regret paying bribes and cheating on her taxes instead of regretting wearing the pantsuit? :confused:

#priorities
 
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Vagabond

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the government is recommending 15 months in prison, a year of supervised release, plus a fine of $95,000, restitution and forfeiture. The MacFarlane plea is relevant to Loughlin and Giannulli because of the level of the offense — that is, how much money was allegedly involved. Plus, the details of the allegations were quite similar.
:watch:
 

Artistic Skaters

Drawing Figures
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Lori Loughlin is reportedly "second-guessing" her decision to plead not guilty to bribery charges stemming from the massive college admissions scandal that rocked a number of high-profile California universities.
*** New USC Parent Charged in College Scam, Hinting at Wider Probe :
(I don't know why it says "Are you a robot?" but the link works okay)
The new charge appears to confirm the fears of some of Singer’s clients that prosecutors are aggressively pressing ahead with their investigation. Singer, who pleaded guilty and is cooperating with the U.S., has told authorities he had hundreds of clients. It’s unclear where the probe will lead, but several of those who have pleaded guilty are cooperating with the government.
 
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skatfan

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Ok, Felicity Huffman and William Macy tell their side.

It sounds like these parents were in the habit of "fixing" things - otherwise why does their daughter call up her parents to fix the cancellation of an audition to college?

Sad for the daughters - predictably they are furious with their parents and there will be long-term issues.

As for jail - hey Martha Stewart was able to survive and continue with a career, I'm sure Felicity will manage somehow.
 

MacMadame

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Huffman said she had panicked, having come to believe her daughter’s low math scores on the SAT would hamstring her dreams of becoming an actress.
Yeah, that's pretty crazy given that Huffman and Macy could open doors for her daughter to get her auditions and parts.

Also, many conservatories don't require SAT scores. Plus a BFA is helpful if you are going into the theater but I don't think it's as required for TV or movies so depending on what kind of acting her kid wanted to do, she might not need to go to college at all.

It seems like these parents don't understand how these things work. They should have hired a college coach who specializes in helping kids with their auditions rather than their SAT scores.

It sounds like these parents were in the habit of "fixing" things - otherwise why does their daughter call up her parents to fix the cancellation of an audition to college?
That's not really that unexpected when you are dealing with a High School student. It might even be the first time her kid has traveled by herself. Why wouldn't you call your mom for advice if you got there and the college told you to go away? That's not something most of us have ever experienced, let alone a HS student.
 

skatfan

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That's not really that unexpected when you are dealing with a High School student. It might even be the first time her kid has traveled by herself. Why wouldn't you call your mom for advice if you got there and the college told you to go away? That's not something most of us have ever experienced, let alone a HS student.
But she wasn't asking for advice on what to do, she was telling them to "Fix it, fix it!" She didn't ask them, "What are my options? What can I do?" I totally get that she was freaked out, but really, this shows how over involved her parents seem to have been. I do feel sorry for her, but that moment is probably not one that her parents should have shared publicly.
 

Vagabond

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According to this, Felicity Huffman studied at RADA and then at NYU[/URL]. If so, her own experience must tell her that Math SAT scores are not a determinant of a successful career as an actor.

She sounds to me like she is trying to come up with a plausible justification for mercy, but her story does not ring true. Still, she has pleaded guilty, taken responsibility for what she has done, and acknowledged that it was wrong. The Court should be lenient with her.
 

taf2002

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I hope that the parents who pled guilty like Huffman will get off with hefty fines & lots of community service. Since her daughter chose a univ which didn't require SAT scores no one was hurt by her actions. The ones who actually portrayed their kids as being gifted athletes took a space away from a deserving student & involved a lot of lying which included conspiracy with a coach. But those who pled guilty should still get a lighter sentence than those who are holding out for a jury trial. Those trials will just cost the taxpayers a lot of money which is ridiculous when you consider that the prosecutors have them dead to rights. And what can their defense be? Yes you honor I did it but I'm a rich person/celebrity so just slap my hand & let's all of us go on our merry way.
 

KCC

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I still think their sentences should be consistent with those of poor, black, non celebrities who lied to get their kids in better primary & high schools, maybe only taking into account remorse and savings from a guilty plea.
 

Vagabond

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I still think their sentences should be consistent with those of poor, black, non celebrities who lied to get their kids in better primary & high schools, maybe only taking into account remorse and savings from a guilty plea.
Inasmuch as those parents are most likely to have violated state but not Federal law, the sentences they might receive are not comparable to those in the Varsity Blues case.

As I understand it, Felicity Huffman committed a fraud by paying $15,000 and presumably receiving a comparable benefit. Usually, people who commit fraud don't pay anything at all, or at least not as much as the value they receive. That seems to me to make this a difficult case, but I would say that she should receive a sentence comparable to whatever some non-celebrity would be for defrauding someone of $!5,000.

Disclaimer: This is not a legal opinion, and anyone wanting one should hire a lawyer. ;)
 

Zemgirl

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I still think their sentences should be consistent with those of poor, black, non celebrities who lied to get their kids in better primary & high schools, maybe only taking into account remorse and savings from a guilty plea.
I think the goal should be for poor people of color to be judged and sentenced fairly, rather than to have everyone get excessive sentences.
 
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KCC

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While I agree very much with the goal that everyone should be sentenced fairly, I also think that won't happen until whites are first given sentences similar to people of color for similar crimes. It won't start by giving whites more lenient sentences.
 

Zemgirl

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While I agree very much with the goal that everyone should be sentenced fairly, I also think that won't happen until whites are first given sentences similar to people of color for similar crimes. It won't start by giving whites more lenient sentences.
That further normalizes harsh sentencing. Do you really think such a thing will benefit POC/poor people in the future?
 

Winnipeg

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The woman who admitted she was wrong and was sorry and paid a fine and demonstrated remorse for her action............should not go to jail IMHO.
 

overedge

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I hope that the parents who pled guilty like Huffman will get off with hefty fines & lots of community service. Since her daughter chose a univ which didn't require SAT scores no one was hurt by her actions.
:confused: It still took time & resources for the university to manage her bogus application, even if she ended up going somewhere else.
 

Winnipeg

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I don't think it matters if the daughter went or not; the crime was still a crime..........like if someone tries to shoot someone but misses, they are still committing a crime, right?

Notwithstanding, Hoffman was remorseful and her reaction is what led me to say she should not go to jail. Fines and community, yes and if it were to happen a 2nd time, then jail.
 

Artistic Skaters

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She pled guilty to a felony. I guess I'm surprised to hear people believe 30 days in jail, which means she would probably serve less with good behavior, is considered a harsh sentence. I doubt the letter by William H. Macey helps her case much when the background suggests he sidestepped similar charges because of a technicality.
 

Vagabond

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She pled guilty to a felony. I guess I'm surprised to hear people believe 30 days in jail, which means she would probably serve less with good behavior, is considered a harsh sentence. I doubt the letter by William H. Macey helps her case much when the background suggests he sidestepped similar charges because of a technicality.
Thirty days in jail, twelve months of supervised release, and a $20,000 fine, which is what the prosecutors are requesting, does not strike me as unduly harsh. AFAIK, however, the Court can impose a harsher sentence if it believes one to be appropriate.
 

Japanfan

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That further normalizes harsh sentencing. Do you really think such a thing will benefit POC/poor people in the future?
Obviously blacks should not be harsher sentences than whites just because they are black. Their sentences should be aligned with the sentenced handed down to white people who committed the same crime in the same/similar circumstances
 

smurfy

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Not sure if this has been in the conversation...

 

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