Citizenship status of skaters aiming for the Olympics

[Vagabond]

I wish the IOC allowed a team to compete in pairs and dance if one partner was a citizen rather than requiring both. I feel bad that talented skaters from small feds are stuck as @MsZem stated above.

That would open the door to allowing far more than six Russians and six Americans to compete in the event, which wouldn't be fair to other Federations or even other teams from Russia and the U.S.

 

[Vash01]

I have no issue with them doing that though.

I think requiring citizenship is old-fashioned. It should just be permanent residency. (Like the US green card)

Permanent Residency would be even harder to check/prove. With citizenship at least the passport proves it. I am ok with the Olympics being for citizens of countries only.

 

[Sylvia]

Lisa Zhuk got her passport today!

This is the correct link : https://www.instagram.com/p/CXwMBT1I6wM/

 

[Jeschke]

This is the correct link : https://www.instagram.com/p/CXwMBT1I6wM/

 

[maatTheViking]

Sorensen also wasn’t at a point where the Olympics where guaranteed before Denmark allowed dual citizenship (in 2014 I recall? ). The ability to retain the citizenship of your birth country would also factor in I think.

 

[MacMadame]

Permanent Residency would be even harder to check/prove. With citizenship at least the passport proves it. I am ok with the Olympics being for citizens of countries only.

You'd have to show your permanent residency card. Should be easy.

 

[Carolla5501]

Honestly, I feel like Reed is going to have a rough time. how many countries has she skated for?

if the president doesn’t want a mercenary for hire, which is kind of what Allison is at this point, then he’s not going to give her citizenship

 

[kwanfan1818]

Sorensen also wasn’t at a point where the Olympics where guaranteed before Denmark allowed dual citizenship (in 2014 I recall? ). The ability to retain the citizenship of your birth country would also factor in I think.

If dual citizenship weren't allowed now in Denmark, they would not be favorites for an Olympic berth, because she'd be in Allison Reed's boat. He likely would have continued for Permanent Residency though, in any case, because it makes life a lot easier if Canada is your base, and especially for re-entering Canada during cv times.

 

[Dobre]

That would open the door to allowing far more than six Russians and six Americans to compete in the event, which wouldn't be fair to other Federations or even other teams from Russia and the U.S.

As opposed to the 7 Americans (not counting Reed or Koleto), 7-9 Russians (depending on whether you count Zagorski & Guerrero), and 6-8 Canadians (depending on whether you count Gilles & Sorensen) that we have scheduled to compete in the Olympic ice dance event now.

(And these are not the only athletes in the discipline representing different countries than from where they were born).


Of course, if Reed was not skating, Lithuania would not have a team headed for the Olympics at all. Instead, that spot would have gone to Yanovskaya & Lukacs and we would have another Russian and a Hungarian instead of 2 Lithuanians headed for the Olympic Games.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Guerreiro was born abroad, but he had Russian citizenship at birth through his mother, who was working in Australia. I'm not sure if he ever competed on behalf of Australia until the age of 14 or so, when, according to Wikipedia, he moved to Russia with his family. So Z/G would count as an extra British-born skater competing for Russia.

 

[Dobre]

Teams in line to earn berths at Nebelhorn after the ones that actually earned the spots:

1. For Hungary, Yanovskaya & Lukacs (she's Russian)
2. For South Korea, Min & Eaton (both American)
3. For Italy, Portesi-Peroni & Chrastecky (he was born in the Czech Republic)
4. For Australia, Harris & Chan (he's Canadian)
5. For Israel, Ichilov & Abecassis (he's French)
6. For Great Britain, Fear & Waddell (he's Canadian)
7. For New Zealand, LaFond-Fournier & Kang in KAM (she's Canadian)
8. Luft & Pfisterer (Germany already had its spot so they weren't eligible for an Olympic berth)
9. For Turkey, Zhata & Akalin (she's Ukrainian)
10 & 11. More German teams that couldn't earn an Olympic spot.
12. For Azerbaijan, Kuznetsova & Kolosovskyi (Russian and Ukrainian)
13. For Slovakia, Pucherova & Lysak (he was born in Russia)
14. For the Netherlands, Verhaegh & Van Geffen (Ding, ding, ding! A team with two athletes born in the country they represent!)

 

[seabm7]

Teams in line to earn berths at Nebelhorn after the ones that actually earned the spots:


7. For New Zealand, LaFond-Fournier & Kang in KAM (she's Canadian)

Richard Kang In Kam was born in New Zealand, but his parents are Korean. He was a singles skater, then an ice dance for South Korea before he went into a hiatus of nearly 4 years.

 

[Dobre]

Richard Kang In Kam was born in New Zealand, but his parents are Korean. He was a singles skater, then an ice dance for South Korea before he went into a hiatus of nearly 4 years.

Yep. And he's a lovely skater. I'm very glad he is back to elite skating. I was so sad when Hojung Lee had to quit.

 

[fan]

Abecassis has citizenship and so does Waddell

 

[Sylvia]

Posted earlier in this thread... From this September 2017 profile: https://www.ice-dance.com/site/getting-to-know-sasha-fear-george-waddell/

[George] Waddell: This year I had made the decision to skate for Great Britain. I have always had a British passport as my dad is from Scotland, but up until this year had skated for Canada. With Sasha also looking for a partner and also having a British passport, it was a great opportunity for both of us.

 

[Dobre]

Abecassis has citizenship and so does Waddell

Yes, lots of ice dancers have citizenship.

Most of these teams would never have formed if there was no pathway to citizenship for the members.

It's just a fallacy to think that more small-country athletes might have the opportunity to compete if one athlete, like Allison, does not receive citizenship. In most cases, without the athlete from the more powerhouse ice-dance country on the team, there would be no Olympic berth at all for the small country. Instead one of these many other international teams would earn the berth, courtesy of IEIDCMRU (International Elite Ice Dance Coaches' Matchmaking-R-Us).


Would there be fewer small country athletes represented in ice dance at the Olympic Games if partners were allowed to compete without citizenship? I really don't know. There might, quite plausibly, be some better teams.

 

[MsZem]

5. For Israel, Ichilov & Abecassis (he's French)

They split after Nebelhorn. She has a new partner - not born or raised in Israel either.

 

[Dobre]

They split after Nebelhorn. She has a new partner - not born or raised in Israel either.

Yep. I hope it works out because I quite like her, and it had to be so frustrating to work two(?) years to build this last partnership just to have her partner quit after Nebelhorn. Byelikov is essentially the same junior ice dance generation as Ichilov so hopefully they may both have a similar longterm view for a career ahead.

Here's a classic example of why an international dance partnership can be a great thing. Israel has this young lady, who is clearly in the right discipline. She's the right age to learn & become a promising ice dancer. She started early enough. But she's not going to get anywhere if she doesn't have a partner. And it's entirely possible that Igor or Zhulin or Montreal or some other ice dance coach may recruit an athlete that could come in a couple years prior to the next Olympics and win a surprise Israeli dance berth. But you don't come across an athlete like Ichilov every day so if she has a partner and they stick it out and develop, then in the long run, they could well be more competitive than any thrown together team. So, by all means, let's see what she and Byelikov can do.

 

[Karen-W]

Marco Zandron has received Spanish citizenship! https://www.instagram.com/p/CYEIiMLIZPK/?utm_medium=copy_link. So excited we will see Barquero/Zandron in Beijing!

 

[Deleted member 221]

You'd have to show your permanent residency card. Should be easy.

Late to the game, but not all countries have these. In the U.K., the only way to demonstrate permanent residency for EU/EEA citizens who arrived before Brexit is through an app. Rules are likely to vary significantly from country to country, making checking a nightmare.

The other issue is that not all “permanent residency” is permanent. Sometimes it’s indefinite and can expire in as little as two years, perhaps less.

A bit unique to the EU / EEA is the right to acquire automatic “permanent residence” (subject to the caveats above) after five years. Anyone could move to an EU/EEA country, stay the minimum required number of days for five years, and then represent them at the Olympics. They may not speak a word of the language, intend to stay, etc., but they’d be representing the country.

I’d predict we’d have full fields from all 31 EU/EEA countries with the bigger countries creating diasporas to smaller countries.

Although the citizenship rule has its downsides, I could not support replacing it with a permanent residency rule.

 

[Bunny Hop]

Late to the game, but not all countries have these. In the U.K., the only way to demonstrate permanent residency for EU/EEA citizens who arrived before Brexit is through an app. Rules are likely to vary significantly from country to country, making checking a nightmare.

This. My father is a permanent resident and used to get a stamp in his passport to say so, but Australia doesn't do that anymore. When he last renewed his passport he had to submit a form to provide his new passport details but it was stated he would not be issued with any new confirmation of his residency status. Permanent Residents who have the audacity to want to travel overseas have to fill in a different form so they'll be allowed back into the country.

 

[angi]

Reed/Ambrulevičius are officially out as her citizenship was rejected again. Heartbreaking.

Allison Reed on Instagram: "It is with a heavy heart that I have to announce my Lithuanian citizenship was again rejected. Saulius and I will not be competing for Lithuania at the 2022 Winter Olympics. It was our dream to attend the Olympics in Beiji

998 likes, 85 comments - al_reed15 on January 3, 2022: "It is with a heavy heart that I have to announce my Lithuanian citizenship was again rejected. Sa..."

www.instagram.com

 

[vesperholly]

That's really unfortunate, because all they've done is deny a Lithuanian citizen his only chance at the Olympics. Are they really that bitter over Tobias?

 

[allezfred]

A bit unique to the EU / EEA is the right to acquire automatic “permanent residence” (subject to the caveats above) after five years. Anyone could move to an EU/EEA country, stay the minimum required number of days for five years, and then represent them at the Olympics.

Am pretty sure to compete at the Olympics you have to have citizenship of the country you are representing. Being from another EU country makes the residence requirement easier to fulfill, but you still need to apply and be accept for citizenship. There was all that drama after all about Bruno Massot passing his German exam prior to PyeongChang last time.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The discussion was whether the citizenship rule for "mixed" teams should be changed to allow permanent residency for one of them.

 

[PRlady]

Permanent residency is tricky. Husband still has “conditional” PR because we had been married less than two years when he applied. They keep extending it because of the backlog at INS but he still has to reside in the US more than six months each year.

My PR in Israel expired a year after I left and now I have to go through process again, sigh.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

Reed/Ambrulevičius are officially out as her citizenship was rejected again. Heartbreaking.

Allison Reed on Instagram: "It is with a heavy heart that I have to announce my Lithuanian citizenship was again rejected. Saulius and I will not be competing for Lithuania at the 2022 Winter Olympics. It was our dream to attend the Olympics in Beiji

998 likes, 85 comments - al_reed15 on January 3, 2022: "It is with a heavy heart that I have to announce my Lithuanian citizenship was again rejected. Sa..."

www.instagram.com

I hope they go to Europeans and Worlds and absolutely slay both times! I‘m a fan—loved that Bandstand RD in particular.

 

[Andrea82]

Lisa Zhuk got her passport today!

Now styled Jelizaveta Zukova on the Euro entry list.

 

[Vagabond]

That's really unfortunate, because all they've done is deny a Lithuanian citizen his only chance at the Olympics. Are they really that bitter over Tobias?

Lithuania has a second ice dance couple with the TES minimums, so the decision gives two Lithuanian citizens the chance to represent their country at the Olympics. Isn't that a good thing?

I don't think many people would be upset if R&A had represented the U.S. and he hadn't been able to get his citizenship in time for Beijing.

 

[vesperholly]

Lithuania has a second ice dance couple with the TES minimums, so the decision gives two Lithuanian citizens the chance to represent their country at the Olympics. Isn't that a good thing?

Yes. Good, I did not know there was another LTU couple who can compete - I thought LTU would have to give up its earned spot. No complaint from me, then.