Cipres/FFSG Press Release on the situation 12-16-2019

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Tinami Amori

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I’ll take your word for it, but at the risk of sounding like an American prude, it’s disgusting to downplay how this incident impacts a young girl.
That's another subject. The one you're reply to is about LÉquipe and "american bashing", and there was none.
 

Primorskaya

Trummerlotte
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Spectacular example of privileged old white men doing what they do... Call me naive, but I did expect something a little bit more circumspect and neutral as an official response. Wow.
 

Tinami Amori

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Spectacular example of privileged old white men doing what they do... Call me naive, but I did expect something a little bit more circumspect and neutral as an official response. Wow.
Cipres is "privileged old white man"? ..:rofl:

Are you sure "only white" and "only old"?
 

Tinami Amori

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I'm pretty sure @Primorskaya was referring to Didier Gailhaguet (I had to copy & paste @cholla's spelling here :D).
ok. but i still don't see the point what "race, age, social status" has to do with a common tendency to "defend their own", not just in sports..... Another (devil's advocate) view is: the statement is defending the standing and the future of the rare team which includes an African-European skater.
 

skatfan

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ok. but i still don't see the point what "race, age, social status" has to do with a common tendency to "defend their own", not just in sports..... Another (devil's advocate) view is: the statement is defending the standing and the future of the rare team which includes an African-European skater.
I think the point is that privileged old white men often protect the status quo rather than advocate for the marginalized voices.

So in this case the elite male pair skater and national champion (where males are given a lot of privileges and status - see the Guardian article) is given some protection by the head of governing body (and corrupt) old white guy against horrific claims by a nobody underage female skater. James doesn’t figure into this so far except as a victim of the fallout.
 

Primorskaya

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I think the point is that privileged old white men often protect the status quo rather than advocate for the marginalized voices.

So in this case the elite male pair skater and national champion (where males are given a lot of privileges and status - see the Guardian article) is given some protection by the head of governing body (and corrupt) old white guy against horrific claims by a nobody underage female skater. James doesn’t figure into this so far except as a victim of the fallout.
My thoughts exactly! Thank you Skatfan and Sylvia :) Yep I did mean Gailhaguet (and I apologise for French spelling to anyone who's suffered because of it :scream:)
 

Tinami Amori

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I think the point is that privileged old white men often protect the status quo rather than advocate for the marginalized voices.
No. you're are pushing a partisan hard-core left-wing agenda, which has no merit.

"Protecting your own" is part of human nature. It happens everywhere on all levels, in politics, sports, business.

Most politicians and sports federations officials in Africa are Black, and in Latin America Latino. There are many scandals, accusations of corruption, FIFA soccer issues is only small example. They all protect "their own".

Kansai University issue between Hamada and Oda. Kansai is protecting Hamada, their own. They are all Japanese/Asian.

Various scandals and accusations in Chinese sports. Changing age of the female gymnasts, 2 judges in FS accused of cheating, etc. Federations protected their own, even cancelled GP in their country in protest. They are Chinese/Asians.

etc.....
 

skatfan

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No. you're are pushing a partisan hard-core left-wing agenda, which has no merit.

"Protecting your own" is part of human nature. It happens everywhere on all levels, in politics, sports, business.

Most politicians and sports federations officials in Africa are Black, and in Latin America Latino. There are many scandals, accusations of corruption, FIFA soccer issues is only small example. They all protect "their own".

Kansai University issue between Hamada and Oda. Kansai is protecting Hamada, their own. They are all Japanese/Asian.

Various scandals and accusations in Chinese sports. Changing age of the female gymnasts, 2 judges in FS accused of cheating, etc. Federations protected their own, even cancelled GP in their country in protest. They are Chinese/Asians.

etc.....
This is not a partisan left/right wing thing. You're just name calling on that.

I do notice that in the Western world (the world of North America and France that is the world of what we are talking about with the Cipres allegations) that privilege collects around older, rich, white men (of varying politics) who are protective of what is now rather than listening to marginalized voices. It's especially true in figure skating.

But I do take your point that this kind of thing occurs in many contexts around the world where an old rich white guy is not at the center. I agree with you.
 

Tinami Amori

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This is not a partisan left/right wing thing. You're just name calling on that.
yes it is, when one points out the gender, the social class, and the race - that's a left-wing agenda, to appeal for votes to those perceived as "minority" - women, less affluent, non-white.

The issue here is a very general and universal one - tribalism and self-preservation, which is not a quality of any group based on race, sex or social/financial status. It would be redundant to even gives examples of "protecting your own" across the world, in every corner and for centuries..

I do notice that in the Western world (the world of North America and France that is the world of what we are talking about with the Cipres allegations) that privilege collects around older, rich, white men (of varying politics) who are protective of what is now rather than listening to marginalized voices. It's especially true in figure skating.
You see what you chose to see. North Am. and France is a very odd "set" to pick, obviously done for the convenience of trying to make a partisan point.

Slide over to the middle-East, and there are plenty of "sets" between groups of same age, same sex, same social position, and to add even same religion and ethnicity..... and they are killing each other, while "protecting their own".

But I do take your point that this kind of thing occurs in many contexts around the world where an old rich white guy is not at the center. I agree with you.
yes, so let's not use "rules for the radicals" and dwell on points 11 and 13. It's too obvious and will get a lash-back. besides, it is usually such bs.....
 

skatfan

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yes it is, when one points out the gender, the social class, and the race - that's a left-wing agenda, to appeal for votes to those perceived as "minority" - women, less affluent, non-white.
Nobody's voting. And no, it's not about minorities, it's about who holds the power. In this case with Cipres, privileged white men like Didi do. I picked North America and France not arbitrarily but because these are the countries involved in the Cipres allegations - they are the context in which this is happening.

Change the case and countries/region, and that will change.

yes, so let's not use "rules for the radicals" and dwell on points 11 and 13. It's too obvious and will get a lash-back. besides, it is usually such bs.....
I've never read it - so I'm not using it. Peace out.
 
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Japanfan

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yes it is, when one points out the gender, the social class, and the race - that's a left-wing agenda, to appeal for votes to those perceived as "minority" - women, less affluent, non-white.
I don't think a person needs to be left-wing in order to care about people who are marginalized, oppressed, or disadvantaged. Or recognize their vulnerabilities. At least, I hope not.
 

misskarne

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I don't think a person needs to be left-wing in order to care about people who are marginalized, oppressed, or disadvantaged. Or recognize their vulnerabilities. At least, I hope not.
No, they need to have a heart and a soul. Which those who generally use "leftie" like an insult generally don't have.
 

Tinami Amori

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I don't think a person needs to be left-wing in order to care about people who are marginalized, oppressed, or disadvantaged. Or recognize their vulnerabilities. At least, I hope not.
The comment was not about "caring". The comment was "racist", "ageist" and "socially discriminating" against a specific group of people, and not true in facts.

Nobody's voting. And no, it's not about minorities, it's about who holds the power. In this case with Cipres, privileged
Cipres is not exactly "privileged" socially as the term often applies. He is of "high value" to the French Figure Skating Federation. It has nothing to do with his age, race, sex, social status.....

It is a common situation, let's narrow it down to sports - when a top notch athlete or coach does something questionable - the Federation Officials' reaction to try to defend them at first. Happens all over the world, in all sports, on all continents, where Federation officials are of different race, age, gender.... there are many examples. It's not about "white", "man", "privilege".
 
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Frau Muller

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I don't think a person needs to be left-wing in order to care about people who are marginalized, oppressed, or disadvantaged. Or recognize their vulnerabilities. At least, I hope not.
Left-, right- or middle-wing include compassionate people. But it’s left-wingers (at least in the US) who love to fan the flames of Identity Politics and scream “racist!” if you’re patriotic.
 

alchemy void

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According to TSL, James/Cipres were cut out of the German television broadcast of their show.

 

clairecloutier

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I'm not sure of the relevance of this latest information. Other than to shed further light on why the family was hesitant to pursue charges/come forward.
 

skategal

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An apology is an admission that something did happen.

If there was any doubt that Morgan didn't do it, there can't be any now.

My heart goes out to these girls and their parents.
 

firstflight

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People were wondering in the first thread if the girl was indeed coached by the same team or just skating at the same rink. This new article specifies that she was coached by Zimmerman, Fontana, and Cipres himself.
 

hanca

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An apology is an admission that something did happen.

If there was any doubt that Morgan didn't do it, there can't be any now.

My heart goes out to these girls and their parents.
Yes, but the apology doesn’t really specify what he has done.
 

Debbie S

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Random note: Cipres really shouldn't have been allowed to coach, since he is not USFS-compliant. Rinks are not required to follow USFS policies for their own FS sessions (as opposed to club-run FS sessions) but it's recommended they do. The rink definitely has liability here....sure, Cipres could/would have done the same thing if he was certified, but at least then the rink could say they did their due diligence.
 

Sylvia

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According to TSL, James/Cipres were cut out of the German television broadcast of their show.
FWIW, James/Cipres can be glimpsed in the Queen group number (an abridged version of the televised Ingolstadt show is linked in the "Concert on Ice" GSD thread). They are scheduled to perform in the Oberstdorf show tonight and then the Bolzano, Italy show on January 4th.
 

Coco

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The timing of the apology makes it sound like either Bushman called Cipres or Zimmerman / Fontana called Cipres after Bushman called them to (presumably) tell them to cut it out or that she'd escalated the issue. The apology appears to be an effort to contain the damage, although legally it looks like an admission of guilt of some kind.
 

hoptoad

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Well, it's an apology sandwich:

-- I'm sorry for what I did.
---- I hope we can "forget bad things."
-- Sorry again.

The substance is plainly, "Please don't get me in trouble."
 
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