I don't think that's abuse so we'll just have to disagree. I think she was definitely unpleasant to train with, it sounds like. Unfortunately for Bruno, the world was not delivering to him a kind-hearted, fabulously talented girl dying to take him to the Olympics. He got what he got. Aljona had no power over him.
Bruno Massot called Savchenko “A tyrant” and said he has PTSD after working with her.
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He would have less room to complain because he'd look 300% more stupid describing all the crap he took for a BRONZE medal.
Athlete and coach are not equals. Athlete and team doctor are not equals. Especially when the athlete is underage.
Two skaters in a pair? Equals. What could Aljona possibly do to him that wouldn't hurt her just as much? Which one is more vulnerable? The one who wants it more. Was Aljona like, Bruno, do a hundred pushups or I'm outa here? No, because she needed him to stay.
Aussie Willy
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Hmmm that you find that acceptable says more about yourself than what happened. Regardless of the whoever is at fault, that you can justify it is very disturbing.
I'm not moved by your perception of my person. Unpleasant things happen every day.
canbelto
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You're a dream jury candidate for the defense in a rape case. You'd probably say she shouldn't have gone out at night.
Aussie Willy
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I get that. I don't expect you to understand. But we will never stop abuse in in our society with that attitude. So those of us who don't accept it should call it out every time we see it.
And what's more, I'll remain perfectly able to discuss the matter at hand without getting personal!
coppertop1
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If you don't want to be called out, don't make ignorant comments.
canbelto
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i really hope no one close to you is abused. You wouldn't be supportive at all.
Massot was perfectly free to stop abuse; all he had to do was take his skates off and he'd never have to deal with her again. The world does not owe Bruno a perfectly pleasant training environment and a mild-mannered, fabulously talented pairs partner to take him to the Olympics. It doesn't work that way and it never will. Olympic caliber skaters are rare enough that you don't get to order their personality a la carte. He was free to skate with her. Or not.
Everyone is free to not show up in the rink the next day in almost all situations and move on to a different career. But they often don’t know much of anything else or feel pressure to succeed in the very thing they’ve spent so much time and energy to become proficient.
I really don’t get why you’re saying you have to talk like a third grader or whatever it is yet everyone is having to spell out for you (and others constantly) that not everyone is wired the same and not everyone is going to react the same way.
Anyways, this thread is going to go in circles for a while but I’m still quite sure that a lot of these responses solely have to do with Massot being a man.
If I'm ever close to a male pairs skater who chooses to complain to me about his horrible partner, I'll tell him to leave. Or to stay if he wants to. Nobody has to have an Olympic medal.
Well, I called it a minute earlier.
That's because "my feelings were hurt" is different from "I'm a victim of an abuser."
canbelto
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Serious question. So what if the pairs skater is a female? Tiny and petite, the way Elena Berezhnaya was. She was locked in her room by her partner, beaten, and far away from her home base in Latvia.
I'm trying to get if it's Bruno being a big dude that is your hangup.
MacMadame
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You have no idea how abuse works.
But Bruno WASN"T locked in his room or beaten or far away from his home base.
My hangup is with Bruno being perfectly free to leave, choosing to stay, and then complaining. From what I could see, his chief gripe is that Aljona wasn't fun to train with.
Aussie Willy
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No one actually cares what you think about Massot. What we care about is your attitude about abuse generally. Whether they are skating partnerships or relationships. And the usual attitude about it if you don't like it leave. Giving the abuser a free pass.
I don't consider his situation to be abuse. And if it WAS abuse, my advice would be the same: leave.
Aussie Willy
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And excuse the abuser for their behaviour. Yep we get it. Because in your mind it is that simple.
canbelto
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You realize that the cycle of abuse means that often, "leave" is not really a viable option right? Are you sure Rush Limbaugh died? Because you sound just like him.
It may not be a viable option "right now" but the advice is always the same: get your ducks in a row and leave. What else is there to do? You can't make abusers be nice to you; all you can do is remove yourself from the situation, if not immediately, then in time.
Aussie Willy
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We are also talking about a sport where people invest a lot of money into their own personal goals, as well as family and federation expectations, as well as hours and hours of training. But yep just up and leave if you don't like it. It is never that simple.
Also consider that in this instance people have changed countries for the pursuit of their goals. But yep just leave if you don't like it.
Also consider that in this instance people have changed countries for the pursuit of their goals. But yep just leave if you don't like it.
Vagabond
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Some articles that certain people here should read:
The 8 Different Types of Abuse: Child Abuse, Adult Abuse, Elder Abuse, and More
Invisible Victims: When Men Are Abused
Why Do People Stay in Abusive Relationships
Double Abuse: How Victims Experience Secondary Abuse
How to Recognize the Signs of Emotional Abuse
The 8 Different Types of Abuse: Child Abuse, Adult Abuse, Elder Abuse, and More
Invisible Victims: When Men Are Abused
Why Do People Stay in Abusive Relationships
Double Abuse: How Victims Experience Secondary Abuse
How to Recognize the Signs of Emotional Abuse
leilaofpaper
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The “why didn’t he leave” argument falls apart so easily. Bruno spent years of his life working towards that Olympics. He didn’t leave at the time because of sunk cost fallacy. He had worked so hard and wanted to go to the finish line, and he would’ve been impacting many other people. And as he said, it wasn’t worth it in hindsight but it’s hard to see how toxic situations are from the inside.
That doesn’t change the fact that he shouldn’t have had to deal with abuse to get there. He should’ve had the option of not dealing with abuse, rather than quitting the sport/the partnership. The onus should’ve been on Aljona to change the circumstances, not him.
That doesn’t change the fact that he shouldn’t have had to deal with abuse to get there. He should’ve had the option of not dealing with abuse, rather than quitting the sport/the partnership. The onus should’ve been on Aljona to change the circumstances, not him.
Former Lurve Goddess
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As someone who was a huge fan of Savchenko, I find this whole thread depressing. it's important to understand that someone can be both an abuser AND a victim and that absolutely no one deserves to be abused no matter the end result.
just tuned in
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Q: Bruno, what was it like, training with Aljona?
Bruno: Terrible! She was a tyrant! She called me lazy! I have PTSD! In retrospect, it was too hard, and this medal is not as important to me now as I thought it would be.
FSU: Aljona is an abuser. She's just like Nassar!
Bruno: Terrible! She was a tyrant! She called me lazy! I have PTSD! In retrospect, it was too hard, and this medal is not as important to me now as I thought it would be.
FSU: Aljona is an abuser. She's just like Nassar!
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canbelto
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No one is trying to haul Aljona to jail so stop that. We are just saying the same factors led people like Aly, Simone and McKayla to stay.
once_upon
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Abuse is not linear. It does not start and stop at a rate others can see.
One day can be emotional and verbally and/or physically abusive. The next day can be wonderful with compliments, gifts, signs of affection - this nay last for an hour or a week. Then the pattern of abuse returns for a day, for a week who knows how long.
People stay because there is the hope that the good days outnumber the bad days. Eventually you stay because there is no way out in your experience.
It may not have been the OGM, but that plus the German Federation investment in him. Who knows what investment they made- monetarily, gaining citizenship. Sometimes you don't see a way out.
If you who are saying he could walk away be grateful the circle of abuse has not invaded your life. I truly hope and pray it does not.
One day can be emotional and verbally and/or physically abusive. The next day can be wonderful with compliments, gifts, signs of affection - this nay last for an hour or a week. Then the pattern of abuse returns for a day, for a week who knows how long.
People stay because there is the hope that the good days outnumber the bad days. Eventually you stay because there is no way out in your experience.
It may not have been the OGM, but that plus the German Federation investment in him. Who knows what investment they made- monetarily, gaining citizenship. Sometimes you don't see a way out.
If you who are saying he could walk away be grateful the circle of abuse has not invaded your life. I truly hope and pray it does not.
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