Bruno Massot called Savchenko “A tyrant” and said he has PTSD after working with her.

[BittyBug]

And was Bruno's PTSD clinically diagnosed?

He himself said he experienced PTSD. Is that not enough for you?

 

[VGThuy]

And was Bruno's PTSD clinically diagnosed?

Was that point? The point was that he said he had PTSD and someone quoted it in a misdirected way to show he didn't really suffer much. And then that poster did a variation of "whataboutism" by bringing Nassar into it and saying we're treating Aliona like she was Nassar, and I don't believe anybody did anything of the kind.

Further, many victims who have come forward have said they have "PTSD" and not many people's first reaction was to ask whether they were clinically diagnosed.

 

[canbelto]

Another thing: for everyone saying Bruno should have left, he did leave. He declined to restart the partnership with Aljona, and thus her short-lived partnership with TJ Nyman.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

deleye

 

[tony]

Another thing: for everyone saying Bruno should have left, he did leave. He declined to restart the partnership with Aljona, and thus her short-lived partnership with TJ Nyman.

Not quite, though. He did join back up with her sometime in the last Olympic cycle to do shows (2021? I don't remember) and as I mentioned way earlier in the thread, when I hinted at them rejoining to prepare for 2022, she shared my Instagram story to her own account. She definitely had her eyes set at another Olympic comeback.

This is why way earlier in the thread I questioned if something additional happened during that time, or having stepped away and back into things made Bruno really see how it was.

 

[Alilou]

He himself said he experienced PTSD. Is that not enough for you?

Ha! I knew saying that would be inflammatory

Yes, it's enough for me. I react a bit to the term being used indiscriminately because Mr alilou is a neuropsychologist trained to treat PTSD and I guess I've heard too many horror stories.

I also don't doubt that bruno was traumatized.

 

[canbelto]

Not quite, though. He did join back up with her sometime in the last Olympic cycle to do shows (2021? I don't remember) and as I mentioned way earlier in the thread, when I hinted at them rejoining to prepare for 2022, she shared my Instagram story to her own account. She definitely had her eyes set at another Olympic comeback.

This is why way earlier in the thread I questioned if something additional happened during that time, or having stepped away and back into things made Bruno really see how it was.

Didn't Bruno skate through a back injury? As someone who has chronic back pain and will for the rest of my life, I actually think that maybe the chronic physical pain made him reflect on whether it was all worth it.
Their relationship never did seem all that warm off the ice though.

 

[Nadya]

While I don't agree that Bruno could have left at any point (yes, he was a free man but as has been said, it's never that simple), this is not a comparable situation because whether she wanted to or not, Berezhnaya was not a free woman in the former Soviet Union. It would not have been up to her.

I think that is part of the problem, too. There are a lot of skaters and coaches from the former Soviet Union and most of them don't have what I would call a healthy training mentality.

I think it's important to note that even in the Soviet Union, no one could force anyone to continue skating

He himself said he experienced PTSD. Is that not enough for you?

PTSD is a condition that has to be diagnosed by a qualified clinician.

That said, people routinely say "I have PTSD" to mean "I have unpleasant memories" in the same way that they call someone "schizo" meaning an idiot (and not a formally diagnosed mental patient).

 

[MacMadame]

Ha! I knew saying that would be inflammatory

Yes, it's enough for me. I react a bit to the term being used indiscriminately because Mr alilou is a neuropsychologist trained to treat PTSD and I guess I've heard too many horror stories.

I also don't doubt that bruno was traumatized.

I don't doubt he was traumatized either.

I also understand that people using the term PTSD for all trauma can be frustrating to people who have been diagnosed and to professionals who deal with PTSD victims regularly.

OTOH, if Bruno is in therapy, then he most definitely would have been diagnosed. And, anyway, he's clearly traumatized over the whole experience so I'm not willing to nitpick at this time

 

[Alilou]

I don't doubt he was traumatized either.

I also understand that people using the term PTSD for all trauma can be frustrating to people who have been diagnosed and to professionals who deal with PTSD victims regularly.

OTOH, if Bruno is in therapy, then he most definitely would have been diagnosed. And, anyway, he's clearly traumatized over the whole experience so I'm not willing to nitpick at this time

Yeah, I guess this is what I was trying to say. I hope he's in therapy. PTSD therapy is usually very effective.

 

[Lemonade20]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow. It's sad that certain posters don't have a clue what the difference is between abuse and being "harsh". It may not have been physical, but psychological abuse which is harder in my opinion. You can recover from broken bones and bruises but that will always rent space forever in your head.

 

[Habs]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow. It's sad that certain posters don't have a clue what the difference is between abuse and being "harsh". It may not have been physical, but psychological abuse which is harder in my opinion. You can recover from broken bones and bruises but that will always rent space forever in your head.

Exactly this.
I have a friend who is in the process of ending his marriage. His wife has been incredibly emotionally abusive for the past many years. He said to me, "sometimes I wish she would just hit me instead of mentally tormenting me."

And yes. My friend is male. In a marriage that he was free to leave years ago. But he didn't. Because, manipulation, abuse, gaslighting, etc.

 

[ballettmaus]

This thread and the most recent trantrum of my mom's boss made me realize that they displays abusive workplace behavior. They behave the way they do to hide their insecurities, so I wonder if that played a role in Savchenko's behavior as well. (Not an excuse, just musing).

A poster mentioned that she was the weakest link because of her ambition. That may be true but many abusive spouses are the "weaker link" or less confident person and they are abusive because they lack confidence in themselves. It makes them feel strong(er) and in control.

I think it's important to note that even in the Soviet Union, no one could force anyone to continue skating

No, they just would have said if you quit this will happen to your family and you/your family will lose all their privileges. But no one would have forced them

 

[Lemonade20]

Exactly this.
I have a friend who is in the process of ending his marriage. His wife has been incredibly emotionally abusive for the past many years. He said to me, "sometimes I wish she would just hit me instead of mentally tormenting me."

And yes. My friend is male. In a marriage that he was free to leave years ago. But he didn't. Because, manipulation, abuse, gaslighting, etc.

I'm sorry for your friend, that is a very difficult situation to be in. And especially for men. I hope he finds peace. Emotional abuse is one of the worst things you can do to someone.

 

[overedge]

That said, people routinely say "I have PTSD" to mean "I have unpleasant memories" in the same way that they call someone "schizo" meaning an idiot (and not a formally diagnosed mental patient).

I haven't heard anyone use "schizo" in years. And when they did, it was to describe someone behaving erratically, not someone who was stupid.

I think there is a much better understanding of PTSD than there used to be - at least it's not written off as "shellshock" or "nerves" as it was for many soldiers after WWI and WWII - but I don't think that someone claiming to have PTSD is misunderstanding what it is, or trying to gain sympathy by misrepresenting themselves. What they've experienced can go way beyond "unpleasant memories", and calling it PTSD may be their way of trying to describe their condition, even if it doesn't meet the clinical definition.

 

[puglover]

I get that PTSD is a mental health disorder with a list of specific symptoms that lead to that diagnosis. The actual term though - Post (after) - Traumatic (emotionally disturbing or distressing event) - Stress (reaction to pressure) - Disorder (disturbance of normal functioning) is such a wonderfully descriptive term for so much of what we experience in life. I guess I see it as a spectrum, but all painful and all needing attention and understanding from others - whether it is really disrupting our lives or not.

 

[Habs]

Alexa Knierim has an interesting post on Instagram today that mentions the difficulty they had training with Savechenko in Europe.

 

[Spikefan]

Alexa Knierim has an interesting post on Instagram today that mentions the difficulty they had training with Savechenko in Europe.

Makes me wonder if that also didn’t contribute to Chris’s condition worsening.

 

[overedge]

For those not on the Insta, like myself - quote from Alexa's post, in the context of Todd Sand's health.

In 2019 after we left Aljona Savchenko in Germany Todd flew immediately to meet Chris and I in Illinois. He didn’t blink an eye to help us get to NHK Trophy with a coach. We had never worked with him and we were all under new pressures.
When we left Aljona I lost all of my grit and self love. It was a difficult time for us. When Todd came to Illinois I would stop the programs mid way thru because I had anxiety and fear that was developed during my time in Europe. Todd was so gracious and gentle. He didn’t know much about us personally but he treated us with the most love and care as if we were his own children. Todd took us to Japan the next week and we medaled. We moved to California immediately after that. ​

​

 

[VGThuy]

Remember when people laughed at Alexa and Chris for being “weak American pairs skaters”?

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting from the U.S. Pairs thread re. Alexa's Instagram post:

The little she writes about their time with Aljona is alarming, from losing all her grit and self love, to developing anxiety and fear that made her stop mid skates. Adding it to the recent tidbits from Bruno paints a very worrying picture regarding Aljona's current career as a coach.

Except that was 3+ years ago and Aljona was just beginning her transition to coaching. Perhaps she's learning from those early experiences and becoming a better coach.

 

[overedge]

Remember when people laughed at Alexa and Chris for being “weak American pairs skaters”?

And doubted whether they were truly committed to the sport because their performances weren't improving.

 

[Rafter]

My bad, I read the article too quickly and it was Gwendal, not Marina, who threw his skates in frustration in practice!

Marina and Gwendal were acquaintances of mine in the mid-to-late 1990s due to my time as a skating official and my friendship with Grishuk & Platov. Oksana and Marina were very good friends back then and remain close today. A year or so ago Oksana was talking to Marina on the phone while I was driving her along the PCH near Laguna, but that's another story...

I definitely spent more time talking to Gwendal over those years, usually just a couple minutes at a time, as he was always very approachable and spoke English fairly fluently. Marina was a bit more intimidating for me, due to her beauty and broken English, and we interacted briefly at some receptions probably at Skate Americas I was working or attending with a mutual acquaintance. I didn't really meet her at length until I found myself in her hotel room in Paris at 1997 Europeans! Well, actually Oksana and I went over to visit Marina and they were speaking Russian most of the time, so I didn't get much opportunity to assess her personality. However, others in elite skating who knew Marina far better than me have told me nice things about her.

The Sport-Express article only tangentially referenced Savchenko and Massot, I think it mentioned just the one quote from Marina as an excuse to run the piece on Anissina & Peizerat. As everyone knows, the Russian media claim Anissina as their own gold medalist even though she won her medals for France. Just like they are trying to do with Ilia Malinin and Isabeau Levito these days. So the article didn't have any allegations of abuse associated with Marina & Gwendal, or any other couple for that matter, and even the Savchenko quote about Massot was about his alleged laziness. The focus was on how a fiery Russian-born woman achieved Olympic and World Gold with a laid-back Frenchman, despite occasional big blowups during training sessions.

The Russian press is trying to claim Levito as one of their own? Why? Doesn’t she have an Italian mother and American father?

 

[canbelto]

The Russian press is trying to claim Levito as one of their own? Why? Doesn’t she have an Italian mother and American father?

She has Russian coaches. Which is kind of absurd, because by that logic you could also claim Nathan Chen as "Russian" as he has a Soviet coach and was trained to jump in a rather "Russian" way.

 

[Yuri]

The Russian press is trying to claim Levito as one of their own? Why? Doesn’t she have an Italian mother and American father?

As @canbelto said above, plus Isabeau also had been learning to speak some Russian to communicate better with her all-Russian coaching staff which even includes some sessions with Evgeny Platov. Isabeau trains at the New Jersey rink where Platov was based before he moved to Florida to coach in West Palm Beach, so she worked with him a bit starting as a toddler. But yeah, Isabeau seems to be embracing her Italian roots this season (learning to speak Italian, etc., rather than Russian) so it's a bit strange.

Of course, it's worse with Malinin given his parents and more fluent Russian. But there's not much else for these skating sites to discuss other than the alternative competitions inside Russia, given the ongoing ISU ban.

 

[Vagabond]

According to , the Russian trend to claim Levito as one their own arises from a dyslexic's misreading her surname as Levitova.

 

[canbelto]

According to , the Russian trend to claim Levito as one their own arises from a dyslexic's misreading her surname as Levitova.

I wonder if there are still the mid-Western hausfraus who go to FS meets in fur coats and call themselves "Natasha" or "Svetlana" replete with a Russian accent.

 

[Andora]

Alexa Knierim has an interesting post on Instagram today that mentions the difficulty they had training with Savechenko in Europe.

Remember when people laughed at Alexa and Chris for being “weak American pairs skaters”?

Someone I used to respect even shared insight from a former world champion deriding Alexa's mental toughness for not hacking it with Savchenko.

I hope we're trending away from this bitchy behaviour more and more, because it seldom turns out to be true or worth it.

 

[Nadya]

This thread and the most recent trantrum of my mom's boss made me realize that they displays abusive workplace behavior. They behave the way they do to hide their insecurities, so I wonder if that played a role in Savchenko's behavior as well. (Not an excuse, just musing).

A poster mentioned that she was the weakest link because of her ambition. That may be true but many abusive spouses are the "weaker link" or less confident person and they are abusive because they lack confidence in themselves. It makes them feel strong(er) and in control.


No, they just would have said if you quit this will happen to your family and you/your family will lose all their privileges. But no one would have forced them

Um, lol, if I leave my job today, my family will lose all the (very plummy) benefits of that job tomorrow. Isn't it the case with your job too?

 

[Ananas Astra]

I wonder if there are still the mid-Western hausfraus who go to FS meets in fur coats and call themselves "Natasha" or "Svetlana" replete with a Russian accent.

I remember those "fake Russian" stories from SS