Any chance of Rika Kihira running the entire quad out?

[tripleflutz]

I fear that P/C will completely dominate the quad, making ice very boring and predictable - particularly since I'm not a P/C uber.

At present the only team who might potentially challenge them, SFAIK, is H/D. But I'm not closely following the ice dance field in Russia, so perhaps there is a Russian team on the up-and-up as well? B/S perhaps? I'm aware of the buzz about them and have probably seen them skate (on TV), but don't remember doing so.

How would you rate them against V&M, atleast achievements wise, if they do. They would have 7 world titles to V&M's 3. An Olympic Gold is worth atleast 3, maybe 4 world titles though, then with a little bit of credit to V&M's team Olympic medals and they are basically tied in Olympics/Worlds. I guess that would still leave P&C a bit in front due to probably many more GPF wins and their European titles being of more value than V&M's Canadian titles. That is just in achievements though.

 

[tripleflutz]

Katarina Witt is the last skater to come closest; 1985 to 1988 with just one glaring loss to Debi Thomas at the 1986 Worlds. If you take into account 1982-83 - 1987-88 seasons she missed out on a medal entirely in Helsinki at 1983 Worlds due to biffing her figures and despite winning the SP and combined free skating and then won the silver behind Debi n Geneva in '86. Other than that she won EVERY competition she entered for 6 years.

(Although some of those results are up for debate even now *cough1987NHKMidoriwuzrobbedcough*).



Love Rika but it ain't gonna happen.

Well Rika is a way more talented skater than Witt, so if Witt almost did it anything is possible no? Then again I think the depth and technical demands of the sport are much higher today than they were then.

Witt could have done the sweep but she was probably also lucky a few times. Lucky in Calgary and Budapest in 88 big time. That is too obvious and there are in too many ways to even bother explaining it all. Had Thomas not missed her double axel in the short she wins the 87 worlds despite Witt's great LP due to the figure results, so was lucky there too. I am presuming the judges would have placed Thomas atleast 2nd in the short as she was defending Champion in her home country, and was doing a much harder jump combo than Manley who was 2nd in the short (and then Witt) which would mean she could win with only 2nd in the LP too. Lucky at the 84 Games considering Sumners popped 4 or 5 jumps in her LP and still missed winning by .1, had she popped just one less she probably wins, it seems the judges wanted to give it to her. So in a sense she probably should not have done the sweep, and was lucky to come as close as she did. She want truly unbeatable the extent Hamilton was, although if she were as good as Hamilton in figures she might have been.

 

[tripleflutz]

Injuries happen. And, anyone who thinks Kihira will be the only skater with a 3A needs to think again. She may have had an advantage this season. That playing field will be leveled next season and beyond.

I definitely know that but the girls who can match her in jumping are ones like Alexandra T and Anna S who are artistically way behind and will probably be destroyed by Rika in PCS and maybe even GOE. The ones who can match or beat her on PCS like Zagitova, Medvedeva, and maybe Miyahara cant come even close to her jump wise even on their best days, especialy as Zag. and Med. seem already past their technical primes and declining, and Miyahara was never a strong or good quality jumper to begin with.

 

[VenusH.]

She won't have as much tech advantage next year, which means she's going to have to be more consistent. This season is easy for the ladies compared to what they are getting into next year and the years to come.

She is training quads now and has already 3A and PCS on her side.

3A have the Eteri technique and I would not be surprised if one of them burns out before senior season.

I don't think she will win win win win win all the time... but with her tech content plus her ability to come back in LP and improvised on her layout (seriously do they train A, B, C, D, E layouts???)... she has good chance to medal for long time.

There is chance that if more ladies are attempting quads resulting in nothing but splatfest, ISU will step in and change the rules (imagine GOEs spanning from -10 to +10... getting nada for a splattity-splat to getting double value for absolutely clean perfect smooth jump...).

I think as long as Rika keeps her fitness, both mental and physical... she can go grabbing medals left and right, even if not winning all the time. After all... ice is slippery.

 

[VenusH.]

I definitely know that but the girls who can match her in jumping are ones like Alexandra T and Anna S who are artistically way behind and will probably be destroyed by Rika in PCS and maybe even GOE. The ones who can match or beat her on PCS like Zagitova, Medvedeva, and maybe Miyahara cant come even close to her jump wise even on their best days, especialy as Zag. and Med. seem already past their technical primes and declining, and Miyahara was never a strong or good quality jumper to begin with.

Well, there are "skating while Russian" PCS... But from what we seen... Sherbakova has meltdown and more worryingly... when Sasha falls on her QUADZ... she pogos. And know what happened to Pogo. Not sure if it is that is is desperately and crazily trying to land it, or bad technique, or just too many rotations... but those falls are bad and could result in career ending injury.

 

[Vash01]

I am not her fan (yet) and I like to see different skaters winning, instead of one skater winning every time. That kind of situation makes the sport boring to me. So I hope that the level of competition will be higher next year.

I think right now a clean Kihira is unbeatable because her TES cannot be caught. Sakamoto beat her when Kihira made a mistake, but at 4CC Kihira won, despite a mistake in the SP. So it is very hard to beat her this season.

Next year it will take consistent quads by the new skaters to beat her. I think it can be done. So I think and hope that she will not win every world title from 2019 to 2022. I like unpredictability in sports.

Men’s skating was interesting when we could not predict a winner. Not even Yuzuru.

 

[Vash01]

She is training quads now and has already 3A and PCS on her side.

3A have the Eteri technique and I would not be surprised if one of them burns out before senior season.

I don't think she will win win win win win all the time... but with her tech content plus her ability to come back in LP and improvised on her layout (seriously do they train A, B, C, D, E layouts???)... she has good chance to medal for long time.

There is chance that if more ladies are attempting quads resulting in nothing but splatfest, ISU will step in and change the rules (imagine GOEs spanning from -10 to +10... getting nada for a splattity-splat to getting double value for absolutely clean perfect smooth jump...).

I think as long as Rika keeps her fitness, both mental and physical... she can go grabbing medals left and right, even if not winning all the time. After all... ice is slippery.

I hope you are wrong about the Russian ladies. Your post almost sounds like you want them to fail. I find them exciting and I want to see good competitions with all skaters skating well.

 

[sharsk8s]

How would you rate them against V&M, atleast achievements wise, if they do. They would have 7 world titles to V&M's 3. An Olympic Gold is worth atleast 3, maybe 4 world titles though, then with a little bit of credit to V&M's team Olympic medals and they are basically tied in Olympics/Worlds. I guess that would still leave P&C a bit in front due to probably many more GPF wins and their European titles being of more value than V&M's Canadian titles. That is just in achievements though.

I don't really think you can compare accomplishments like that because their medals are being won in different competitive climates with different scoring systems. Both teams are amazing and have/are shaping the discipline. I think if I could guess one olympic medal now it would most likely be p/c gold because they have "waited their time" in the ice dance hierarchy. Although they didn't have the more gradual climb of most of the top teams (such as v/m) by 2022 they will have been one of the top teams in the discipline for 7 years.

 

[Japanfan]

How would you rate them against V&M, atleast achievements wise, if they do. They would have 7 world titles to V&M's 3. An Olympic Gold is worth atleast 3, maybe 4 world titles though, then with a little bit of credit to V&M's team Olympic medals and they are basically tied in Olympics/Worlds. I guess that would still leave P&C a bit in front due to probably many more GPF wins and their European titles being of more value than V&M's Canadian titles. That is just in achievements though.

I don't see P/C as a superior team to V/M, but rather, see the two teams as equals, much as V/M and D/W were equals.

The judges did favor P/C at the Olympics IMO and they would have won barring the costume malfunction that lost them valuable points in the SD. But I think that favoritism was based on the fact that 'Moonlight Sonata' was seen as more Olympic gold worthy than 'Moulon Rouge'.

TBH, I think the judges surprised themselves by giving V/M the win, and I don't think that win would have happened had P/C skated last.

But P/C don't at present have a team that can challenge them as D/W did V/M, so a comparison is difficult. And if no one challenges them, then you can't really compare the two in terms of number of wins.

P/C are five-time European champions and have more GPF wins, but again, they achieved that in the absence of teams who could compete with them directly.

 

[tripleflutz]

I am not her fan (yet) and I like to see different skaters winning, instead of one skater winning every time. That kind of situation makes the sport boring to me. So I hope that the level of competition will be higher next year.

I think right now a clean Kihira is unbeatable because her TES cannot be caught. Sakamoto beat her when Kihira made a mistake, but at 4CC Kihira won, despite a mistake in the SP. So it is very hard to beat her this season.

Next year it will take consistent quads by the new skaters to beat her. I think it can be done. So I think and hope that she will not win every world title from 2019 to 2022. I like unpredictability in sports.

Men’s skating was interesting when we could not predict a winner. Not even Yuzuru.

I think she is much more artistic than the young Russians who have quads, although the young Russians could improve their artistry and skating skills. She is a much stronger jumper than both Zagitova and Medvedeva who can challenge her artistically, but not in technical strength.

So based on that I see things as hers to lose for now, atleast until someone improves.

 

[tripleflutz]

Well, there are "skating while Russian" PCS... But from what we seen... Sherbakova has meltdown and more worryingly... when Sasha falls on her QUADZ... she pogos. And know what happened to Pogo. Not sure if it is that is is desperately and crazily trying to land it, or bad technique, or just too many rotations... but those falls are bad and could result in career ending injury.

That is all true. Especialy the skating while Russian PCS thing.

 

[tripleflutz]

This question is impossible to assess. It goes without saying that the 3A next year will pose serious competition. However, puberty is a real monster. My estimate is that 1-2 of the 3A will fizzle over the course of the quad (I'm afraid Shcherbakova is most likely to) due to puberty, but most likely 1-2 of them will remain competitive. That remains difficult for Rika to stay competitive the entire time.

However, Rika is working on quads, and her PCS will rise into the mid-70s if she can skate clean and continue to work on the second mark. She also has better jumping technique than the 3A (Kostornaia also has decent technique, but her lutz edge is not good and she doesn't have 'tricks' jump-wise).

I don't think Alysa Liu will be that competitive, I'm afraid. Her jump technique doesn't look fool-proof enough. She's fortunate to be 4'7" right now, but I'm not sure her technique is sustainable if/when she hits 5 feet and above.

I am very curious on Shcherbakova and Liu. They are my favorites are the two underaged girls and it would be super dissapointing to me if both fall by the wayside as you are projecting (which unfortunately you might be right on). Not a fan of Trusova whatsoever. In fact do not enjoy her skating at all.

 

[bardtoob]

Well Rika is a way more talented skater than Witt, so if Witt almost did it anything is possible no? Then again I think the depth and technical demands of the sport are much higher today than they were then.

If being the most talented was not the criteria back then, why would you think it is the criteria now?

 

[Rock2]

My comment is the same on topics of this nature with respect to any skater.
I first said this when everyone was speculating about the future of Brezina after 2010 worlds and have repeated it in a few other cases.

Let me first see how she skates under pressure of expectations. May see some of that at world's at home but you tend not to see it in their first year of seniors when they are still the up-and-coming skater. If she hits the podium this year then I'll be very curious to see what she looks like in the fall.

 

[tripleflutz]

If being the most talented was not the criteria back then, why would you think it is the criteria now?

Witt was more talented than most of her competitors, just not as talented as Rika who is such an amazing talent. Someone like young Ito was more talented than Witt in free skating but was very weak in figures at that point. Kadavy and Manley might have been more talented too, but both were headcases.

 

[bardtoob]

Witt was more talented than most of her competitors, just not as talented as Rika who is such an amazing talent. Someone like young Ito was more talented than Witt in free skating but was very weak in figures at that point. Kadavy and Manley might have been more talented too, but both were headcases.

Witt's figures had issues.

 

[tripleflutz]

Witt's figures had issues.

Definitely but due to her name she was protected. I am pretty sure she didnt deserve some of her high figure placings, but that was how the sport worked back then. I am still sure they were still atleast better than Ito who was known for awful figures, especialy in her youth (at the 89 worlds she had fairly good ones).

 

[Aerobicidal]

"Running the Quad Out" is going to me Miss Karne's dissertation about how Vincent Chen permanently ruined men's figure skating.

 

[alj5]

"Running the Quad Out" is going to me Miss Karne's dissertation about how Vincent Chen permanently ruined men's figure skating.

Just like that Nancy Kwan ruined ladies figure skating in the 1990s?

 

[Japanfan]

"Running the Quad Out" is going to me Miss Karne's dissertation about how Vincent Chen permanently ruined men's figure skating.

Vincent Chen? Do you mean Vincent Zhou?