Adelina Sotnikova uber thread

miki88 said:
I hope Adelina stays and proves herself more. I remember being very impressed with her when she was dominating the junior field. I liked her Swan Lake program. I wish she could go back to more classical programs. She needs better packaging and choreography because she has some really good qualities. Her long program was really strange. I think they were going the avant-garde route, but it just appeared bizarre to me. Regardless, I find the outrage aimed at her personally to be over the top. She did really well and congrats to her.
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Some people are taking this result way too far attacking this poor girl just because she beat yuna,really shameful.
 
miki88 said:
I remember being very impressed with her when she was dominating the junior field. I liked her Swan Lake program. I wish she could go back to more classical programs. She needs better packaging and choreography because she has some really good qualities. Her long program was really strange. I think they were going the avant-garde route, but it just appeared bizarre to me.
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Funny, when I was re-watching it on the NBC tape delay Bezic said she had gone back to an old program from Juniors to help with the Oly nerves. Not that making shit up is beyond a possibility for Bezic, but not having followed her as a jr I assumed it was true, and thus explained all of the weird childish waving to the crowd etc... in the choreo. The music sounded to me like an Edvard Marton version of Rondo Capricioso. Was Bezic wrong?
 
It's listed as her 2010-2011 long program music. Which would have been the year she was JR world champion?
berthesghost said:
Funny, when I was re-watching it on the NBC tape delay Bezic said she had gone back to an old program from Juniors to help with the Oly nerves. Not that making shit up is beyond a possibility for Bezic, but not having followed her as a jr I assumed it was true, and thus explained all of the weird childish waving to the crowd etc... in the choreo. The music sounded to me like an Edvard Marton version of Rondo Capricioso. Was Bezic wrong?
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miki88 said:
I hope Adelina stays and proves herself more. I remember being very impressed with her when she was dominating the junior field. I liked her Swan Lake program. I wish she could go back to more classical programs. She needs better packaging and choreography because she has some really good qualities. Her long program was really strange. I think they were going the avant-garde route, but it just appeared bizarre to me. Regardless, I find the outrage aimed at her personally to be over the top. She did really well and congrats to her.
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there are a few musicians in russia who seem to be really popular for doing techno versions of classical music :eek: I remember Irina Slutskaya skated to a remix of Totentanz lol
 
Adelina's Instagram page has been filled with death threats and name calling. It's awful. :(
 
The dress was rather ugly, but I don't see a problem with Adelina winning. It's not like the US hasn't had plenty of young girls with flutzes and inflated marks.
 
leesaleesa said:
It's not like the US hasn't had plenty of young girls with flutzes and inflated marks.
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I'm not a Sotnikova uber, but I agree with this. If an American had beaten Kim in the same fashion, would you have seen the same outrage from Americans? Probably not. I don't have a problem with rational folks who say, "I disagree with the judging." However, I'm just tired of all the over-the-top dramatics from some fans, who seem to think that you automatically need your head examined if you think there might even be the slightest possibility that Sotnikova deserved to win. ;) I mean, yes, while I do think there is often corrupt judging in skating, I also think some folks are waaaaay too quick to jump to conspiracy theories in order to make sense of the results. That kind of black-and-white thinking is just too easy.

Having said that, because both Sotnikova & Kim had their flaws, perhaps the ISU should've just awarded 2 silvers. :D

Anyway, it seems to me what so many sports fans are seriously lacking is objectivity. The more you care about a particular skater/result, the less likely you are to have it. And when fans do lack it, more often than not they do not even realize it. :lol: The question "Am I really seeing things objectively?" almost never seems to occur to them. Self-doubt may not always feel good, but it's essential to critical thinking.
 
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I think she deserved to win. It's a sport, she's athletic, and the program was enjoyable, though I don't know what was up with the proctologist gloves. She does a lot of things well and maxed out her points. Maybe she was a bit over scored, but it wasn't really blatant, IMO.
 
leesaleesa said:
I think she deserved to win. It's a sport, she's athletic, and the program was enjoyable, though I don't know what was up with the proctologist gloves. She does a lot of things well and maxed out her points. Maybe she was a bit over scored, but it wasn't really blatant, IMO.
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It was winning sort of in the same tradition as Hughes, Lipinski, etc.: out-jumping the competition, and skating with a lot of energy and/or speed. I don't have a problem with that concept. Of course, who wins the OGM is about who's the best at that competition, not in general. The best overall skaters do not (and should not) always win. That's why you have to look at a skater's entire career in order to evaluate his or her standing appropriately. Winning an OGM doesn't automatically make you a great skater, and failing to win one doesn't automatically make you a less-than-great skater.

Anyway, even Elvis Stojko agreed with the decision. :cool:
 
That line from the Slate article summed it up perfectly for me. I think the situation between Sot and Kim is even comparable to Tara vs. Michelle in 1998, except that Michelle, while skating a programme that wasn't as rousing as Tara's, wasn't nearly half as clinical as Kim. Michelle was also at that time at the height of her artistry, or nearing it, while Kim's artistry has become boring and stale to me.

And death threats against a, what, 16 or 17-year-old? Disgusting. I wouldn't pay any mind to those foaming at the mouth about conspiracy theories and what not, though; I'd bet most are what we call Yunabots (the majority are Korean), who all seem to descend en masse upon us poor regular FS fans when it's been perceived that the goddess or cult figure has been blasphemed even in the slightest. Scary; I'd treat them in the same manner I would any rabid member of a cult.

Also, a good point has been brought up about the +3s for Kim's second lutz in the long - I thought that landing was imperfect the first time I saw it, and yet where's the outrage for that bit of overscoring?
 
mrinalini said:
That line from the Slate article summed it up perfectly for me. I think the situation between Sot and Kim is even comparable to Tara vs. Michelle in 1998, except that Michelle, while skating a programme that wasn't as rousing as Tara's, wasn't nearly half as clinical as Kim.
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That's a reasonable comparison.

I wouldn't pay any mind to those foaming at the mouth about conspiracy theories and what not, though; I'd bet most are what we call Yunabots (the majority are Korean), who all seem to descend en masse upon us poor regular FS fans when it's been perceived that the goddess or cult figure has been blasphemed even in the slightest. Scary; I'd treat them in the same manner I would any rabid member of a cult.
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I agree, but the thing is, the same thing was going on with fans of ice dance. It seems that a whole lot of people are foaming at the mouth. :D I was rooting for D&W, and even I can agree that they were somewhat overmarked, but all the talk of deals and fixes is just too :drama: for me. They are reigning world champs who haven't been defeated in 2 years. I mean, overmarking is almost expected.

Also, a good point has been brought up about the +3s for Kim's second lutz in the long - I thought that landing was imperfect the first time I saw it, and yet where's the outrage for that bit of overscoring?
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This is kind of funny. Before seeing her performance, I read about Yuna's mistake on her second lutz, and that some in the audience were even clapping for it. Then I went into the protocols and said :huh:? :)

In the end, there's nothing inherently wrong with "nit-picking" a skater's performance, as long as you apply the same standard to everyone. ;)
 
Now Korean media/net people are blaming Adelina for leaving the press conference during Kim was talking.(Skaters are allowed to leave press conference after their turns have finished because of the insane schedule of this Olympics. So did Adelina. Even Carolina left during Kim was talking.)

(my rough translation of the Korean article's title)
Sotonikova's bad manner issue: Where is the sportsmanship? "Her skating ability and even manner are those of loser's," said net people.
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=pho&sid1=107&oid=076&aid=0002468517

This is the hot issue there now. *shrug*
 
rosewood said:
(my rough translation of the Korean article's title)
Sotonikova's bad manner issue: Where is the sportsmanship? "Her skating ability and even manner are those of loser's," said net people.
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=pho&sid1=107&oid=076&aid=0002468517
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That's impressive if you know Korean. :)

In order for it to be really bad manners, the person has to realize that. Anyway, why would she have any reason to be ungracious to Kim??? It doesn't make much sense. Besides, she's only 17. And is there any etiquette here that she would be expected to know about? When I was 17, I can think of something I did that might have come across as bad manners, but I didn't have a clue. I was just too young to know any better--it was definitely not intentional.
 
This is my last post in this thread as I am not an Adelina fan at this point, but the fact those of you who are seem to be implying that it is only Yu Na fans who are upset about this result shows what incredibly stupid morons you must be. There is a huge outcry around the world about this result and if that were based on Yu Na fanaticsm strictly than Yu Na would have to be the most popular skater ever, which she of course isnt. She doesnt even scrape the surface of worldwide popularity of Michelle Kwan or Katarina Witt, even if she is up there with them in skating greatness. There are many skaters besides Yu Na anyway who were victimized by the fixed and bought win for Sotnikova- Kostner, Asada in the long program, others even if they didnt deserve to beat her but never had a hope anyway of a medal with the fixed scores and medals of Sotnikova and Julia (had she stayed on her feet gold or silver was certain). I am not a fan of any of the current women besides Osmond, Li, and to some degree Kostner, and long for the days of Cohen and Kwan and Slutskaya, but even I could see what happened not only in the ladies event but the entire Figure Skating event. They could have just not held it and given everyone out there medals. So continue thinking it is only Yu Na fanaticsm and continue living in a fantasy world.

It is pretty simple. Sotnikova in no way deserved anything more than a bronze medal or more than 4th in the long program and had the Games been held anywhere else there is 0% chance she would have gotten more than that. If there was a machine invented to make the Games anywhere else I am sure nobody here would be willing to bet there life on her placing higher than that if they were forced to choose her doing better than that or getting those exact placings. Her win was part of an entire Russian fix of this skating competition and people will never be ok with that. It has nothing to do with who is a fan of such and such skater. That means nothing. People arent just going to accept a rigged competition.
 
kuzytalent said:
It has nothing to do with who is a fan of such and such skater. That means nothing. People arent just going to accept a rigged competition.
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People can make this point without being nasty and threatening though. If you are trying to excuse that kind of behavior, I'm sorry but no cause is worth sending death threats to a 17 year old girl over.
 
^No one is trying to excuse that type of behavior. There are many of us who are voicing our concerns (in a reasonable manner, IMO) over what happened in the ladies FS, and not all of us should be automatically lumped together with the more zealous, nationalistic Kim fans, and our argument discredited.

I do hope her uberfans would stop the attacks on Sotnikova because 1) she's not responsible for the judging, and 2) it's not doing any wonders for their credibility or stance.
 
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rosewood said:
Now Korean media/net people are blaming Adelina for leaving the press conference during Kim was talking.(Skaters are allowed to leave press conference after their turns have finished because of the insane schedule of this Olympics. So did Adelina. Even Carolina left during Kim was talking.)

(my rough translation of the Korean article's title)
Sotonikova's bad manner issue: Where is the sportsmanship? "Her skating ability and even manner are those of loser's," said net people.
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=pho&sid1=107&oid=076&aid=0002468517

This is the hot issue there now. *shrug*
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Wait was this yesterday in the mixed zone where athletes give interviews after getting their medals in the medals plaza? If so, the Korean media is making a big fuss about nothing.

The medalists stand individually and different media members come to them to ask questions and some translator volunteers are there to translate in case they don't speak English or need some help. If Adelina left early (which she did because she came out first), it's because she was done. She didnt have to wait for Yuna because Yuna was probably still giving her interviews to the press by herself. Why would Adelina stay and listen to Yuna talk in a language that she doesn't even understand and when they're giving interviews separately? Plus Adelina seemed to be in a rush to go somewhere because she was running the whole time and didn't give any autographs. Also, other medalists for other events have done the same thing. It wasn't just Adelina.

I guess there's a reason why you can't trust everything the media says. I don't agree with the results either, but this is ridiculous as someone who actually knows how the system works and has seen it with my own two eyes.
 
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