Adam speaks his mind on US leader chosen for the Oympic delegation

[ballettmaus]

I don't see why at this point in "western history" anyone should come out.. Being Gay/Lesbian is normal, and if heterosexuals do not need to declare, why should the other? If society is now accepting, it should not require such proclamations. I am going to try a social experiment in liberal California at a next party, will stand in the middle of the room and say "I am straight".... and see how many people look weird at me... I am glad that Johnny Weir simply followed his style and behavior without any announcements. He got his attention another way, without "politics".. Our society is all about "hysterics" nowdays, if you yell something about "your identity and evil government" you have instant attention and recognition....

Except that it isn't. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion and Rippon wouldn't have been asked what he was asked.

Yes, being homosexual or transgender is normal but there are still a lot of people who don't think that it is.

 

[Tinami Amori]

There are many places in this country where coming out is still a big deal. The reason why coming out is so important for many is because the world is default straight until otherwise informed. People assume everyone is straight unless they do something that seems "gay" which goes into conformity to traditional gender roles and not behaving in a traditional, expected way makes people assume someone must be not straight and that's a whole other topic. Even then, people still won't receive confirmation until there's some sort of declaration. For many LGBTQ folks, coming out is a way of self-accepting yourself and to provide notice to everyone you know that you are gay so don't expect the same things you'd expect from everyone else. There's so much in our society that perpetuates hetero-normative models that most people don't even notice it. However, if same-sex couples acted casually the way different-sex couples do in every day life, they would still get looks and be seen as acting out-of-the-ordinary in many places. Maybe not in big urban areas like San Francisco or New York City, but they would in many other places. If you were to go to where I'm from in the lower-to-working class suburb around New Orleans where much of the South exists that doesn't exist in the city proper, then you would get why role models coming out is important.

Oh, i can write 50 pages on each point.. but i'll try to be short.

- who the FECK cares what people expect of you, if you're not punching, stealing, damaging their assets/property or kicking their dog??!!!!! if you're are ok with who you are, and what/how you are is not illegal, don't worry about people, do your thing. They may notice you're different, but they'll learn to live with it.

- it's best if people learn to accept that there will always be someone/some-group who will not like you for something (and that something maybe just as important to you as your sexual orientation)...... so? are they allowed by law to harm you? if not, then who cares...

 

[manhn]

Yes, being homosexual or transgender is normal but there are still a lot of people who don't think that it is.

Yes, like, oh, I don't know, the leader of the US Delegation.

 

[Simone411]

Apparently, yes, he did, since he revealed it in his book and talked about it when he was promoting the book.



I have absolutely no problem being intolerant of those who think it's OK to be discriminatory and hateful. By your logic Rosa Parks should have shut up and gone to the back of the bus, and Dr. King should have told his parishioners to be glad that all those nice white people were employing them as maids and cleaners

And I had to see it growing up. Blacks weren't even allowed to drink from the same water fountain as whites. They had water fountains that had a sign "Whites Only" and water fountains with the sign "Blacks Only" ... excuse me, "Colored Only". The same with restrooms. Even at the old movie theatre in our town of all places, Blacks or "Colored" had to sit in the balcony while "Whites" sat downstairs. Where was the Christianity in that? It didn't last long with my generation because we rebelled and purposely sat in the balcony with our "colored" friends. I'm talking about when I went to high school from 1972 through 1976.

Not to mention Pence supporting a President that openly mocked and made fun of disabled/handicapped people. When I came home in 2012, and discovered I couldn't even go vote where I was supposed to vote because there was no handicap ramp at the Court House, I had to vote early at the Police Jury Office where I could simply walk in there.

I didn't hush up about it. I went through the Board of Directors over the Police Jury and explained that I still had the right to vote even though I was disabled, and there should be a place where I could do that. They actually changed the precinct where I could walk in and vote at the Chamber of Commerce. If we don't speak up for our rights, nothing will ever happen. Does Christianity have anything to do with it when someone like Pence even supports a President that has mocked and made fun of disabled people?

Kudos to Adam!!! I'm proud of him!!! Whoop!

 

[Karina1974]

And you should STFU about things you obviously know nothing about.

I've blissfully put that poster on Ignore. Talk about having to change the record!

 

[VGThuy]

Oh, i can write 50 pages on each point.. but i'll try to be short.

- who the FECK cares what people expect of you, if you're not punching, stealing, damaging their assets/property or kicking their dog??!!!!! if you're are ok with who you are, and what/how you are is not illegal, don't worry about people, do your thing. They may notice you're different, but they'll learn to live with it.

- it's best if people learn to accept that there will always be someone/some-group who will not like you for something (and that something maybe just as important to you as your sexual orientation)...... so? are they allowed by law to harm you? if not, then who cares...

Human beings are social creatures (which is why they are severely harmed when put in solitary confinement). We are shaped by our families and then by our communities as we grow older. Our families are shaped by our communities and society. Feeling accepted and encouraged is something people crave and is an integral part of one's developement. Positive reinforcement and negative consequences and trauma follow people from childhood to adulthood. That's basic psychology. People learn survival skills to be proud of their differences later on. Usually those who are successful at it find a support system that encourages them to be individuals. However, most people aren't ok and cannot learn to be ok with who they are if they don't receive that support system. You're missing how someone can go from point A to Point Z in their development.

Not everything is black/white in terms of legal/illegal. Life is messier than that, and people getting kicked out of their homes, shamed by their peers, bullied, harassed, etc. happens every day. Legal or not. Calling law enforcement might sound good to you if you think they'll actually help the situation. Others don't feel like it will or just internalize the hurt and try to deal with it alone.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Human beings are social creatures (which is why they are severely harmed when put in solitary confinement). We are shaped by our families and then by our communities as we grow older.

.... what it is really about is many people just want to be "liked"..... and with gadgets and social media "likes/dislikes" features many people are becoming emotionally dependent on it.... You can not legislate "like or dislike", but you can issue laws on civil rights and certain elements of social conduct.

People need to find strength in themselves to know that their "difference" whatever it maybe is not costing others money or causing body-harm, and if they are not causing such damage, then it is up to them to find internal acceptance. You can not legislate what others think about you. If one expects it, it's that person's problem.

 

[Karina1974]

I'm an atheist and I wish Ross was picked, but this quote is everything. I have two sister-in-laws whom I love dearly. One is Catholic, the other Christian Science. I respect their beliefs which are based in love. Pence I feel is based in hate. And Trump is insane. True religion is based on kindness.

Christian Science is based on bullshit. It almost killed my brother's best friend in high school. His step-dad is a raging Fundie and refused to pay for a necessary heart operation. Thankfully the Boston Children's Hospital stepped in and did the operation for free (his mom was all for him having it done).

 

[VGThuy]

.... what it is really about is many people just want to be "liked"..... and with gadgets and social media "likes/dislikes" features many people are becoming emotionally dependent on it.... You can not legislate "like or dislike", but you can issue laws on civil rights and certain elements of social conduct.

People need to find strength in themselves to know that their "difference" whatever it maybe is not costing others money or causing body-harm, and if they are not causing such damage, then it is up to them to find internal acceptance. You can not legislate what others think about you. If one expects it, it's that person's problem.

I think we're talking about different things here. My point is that people seek validation and feel pride in role models who represent them in some way. It's human nature to want those things. I remember an old post of yours when you celebrated the success of Irina Slutskaya and others because they were Russian Jewish skaters who succeeded and proved all the naysayers wrong about their unscientific and bigoted ideas of what Jewish individuals could accomplish in sport. That was one of my favorite posts from you. It's not different than gay people feeling the need to come out as a way to not only make a statement that they are accepting themselves and will no longer hide an important part of themselves (sexuality is a huge part of one's identity) but hoping that they could reach out to others and help them feel like they themselves can do the same and be proud of their community.

Unlike race (except in mixed-race situations where I think we are still learning more about), one's sexuality cannot be seen so easily, so coming out is a bit more necessary in that situation for many people. Many LGBTQ people have stated in so much literature that the whole thing required them coming to terms with their sexuality alone, internalizing feelings, not being able to freely express themselves, repressing it, trying not to be found out, and then after much soul searching and maturation, coming to terms with it where they can feel like they can be brave enough to be out. I know in some families and communities, it's become more accepted and kids who have more progressive and encouraging parents (at least when it comes to this) are becoming more comfortable with this sort of thing, but it's not the same everywhere else and that's still a bubble rather than the norm of American society.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think we're talking about different things here. My point is that people seek validation and feel pride in role models who represent them in some way. It's human nature to want those things. I remember an old post of yours when you celebrated a bunch the success of Irina Slutskaya and others because they were Russian Jewish skaters who succeeded and proved all the naysayers wrong about their unscientific and bigoted ideas of what Jewish individuals could accomplish in sport. That was one of my favorite posts from you. It's not different than gay people feeling the need to come out as a way to not only make a statement that they are accepting themselves and will no longer hide an important part of themselves (sexuality is a huge part of one's identity) but hoping that they could reach out to others and help them feel like they themselves can do the same and be proud of their community.

After jewish athletes win, i am very proud and happy, and say so. If my jewishness has something to do with a discussion, i state it.. But i don't go around yelling "I am jewish" out of the blue and see how people react and to make sure that they know my ethnicity for no reason.

Since we're on a subject of "jewish", let me give you an example. The Identity Hysterics that are taking place in USA would pretty much be like this for a jew..

- Broadway production of "Oliver!".
- I ran out and yell "Stop the play! Charles Dickens is a documented anti-semite! and eliminate the role of "Fagin" as it is bad image for jews".

..... and if i am a mediocre actress who can't get any leading roles, that would surely gather the press around me and get me noticed.... (although with jews complaining it's not as likely, we control the world and herd all the money..)

 

[VGThuy]

Actually, anti-Semitic portrayals is one of the more spoken about subjects that I've come across. When I first heard the musical score for Oliver!, I did research on the musical and one of the first things I've read was an analysis on the character of Fagin and how actors have portrayed him and exaggerated certain things that are seen as anti-Semitic.

I also feel like Jews do have a lot of pride and we've seen many in the community openly embrace it and talk about their heritage, which is a great thing. A big part of the history of American comedy is Jewish comedy (well urban Jewish-American communities anyway) and it shines through. I don't think it's "out of the blue" nor is someone coming out really "out of the blue". They usually do it in the context of having a bigger discussion with their families and have been turning it in their heads for quite some time. I think we're at an impasse here since you don't see any importance when public role models come out and increase visibility and awareness. I also sort of think your dislike of Adam and Ashley is coming into play here.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I also sort of think your dislike of Adam and Ashley is coming into play here.

... and in another topics someone thinks i dislike Pogorilya and Lipnitskaya.. Sometimes what athletes do and say gets me to dislike them, yes... especially those who blame others for their problems, and try to get attention by the wrong means.

As to self-identity and approval... People should learn to train their brains to see themselves as they chose, and not worry about how others see them.. (if they are not hurting others).. http://www.medicaldaily.com/how-ima...-creative-thinking-allows-neurons-work-406628

 

[Sylvia]

The reason why coming out is so important for many is because the world is default straight until otherwise informed. People assume everyone is straight unless they do something that seems "gay" which goes into conformity to traditional gender roles and not behaving in a traditional, expected way makes people assume someone must be not straight and that's a whole other topic. Even then, people still won't receive confirmation until there's some sort of declaration. For many LGBTQ folks, coming out is a way of self-accepting yourself and to provide notice to everyone you know that you are gay so don't expect the same things you'd expect from everyone else.

Gus Kenworthy came out in October 2015 (this AP article was linked in the recent AP article I posted earlier in this thread) -- his story: https://durangoherald.com/articles/96960
Excerpt:

DENVER – When Gus Kenworthy would let his mind wander into how his perfect Olympics might play out, he pictured a certain scene.
He’d land his best tricks on his final run, win a medal and then – the capper – jump into the stands, ski boots and all, to share a big hug and kiss with the man who meant so much to him.
“That would’ve been an amazing way to come out,” said Kenworthy, the freestyle skier who won the silver medal in Sochi.
But the timing, to say nothing of the country, wasn’t quite right to tell the world he was gay. And so Kenworthy left Russia in February 2014 known best as the compassionate daredevil who adopted several stray dogs he came across in the mountains – and as the man who was part of an historic U.S. sweep of the first Olympic ski slopestyle contest.
Because he wasn’t ready, the journey to Sochi was far less perfect than it could’ve been for the 24-year-old from Telluride, who Thursday, in interviews with The Associated Press and ESPN The Magazine, revealed to the public that he is gay.

ETA:

In the more recent AP article published on Jan. 16th, Kenworthy is quoted as saying: "I've got more eyeballs on me. My platform's a lot bigger [since Sochi 2014]. I signed a bunch of Olympic sponsors and I have the LGBT audience watching me, and I want to do right by them."

Olympic athletes have always had short periods to cash in on their once-every-four-years window of fame. And more often than not, simply being a great swimmer or freestyle skier is not enough to carry the day. Given the messages of tolerance and equality the Olympics try to promote, the 26-year-old silver medalist quickly became a popular target for sponsors. Among those who signed him are Visa, Toyota, Chobani, Deloitte, Ralph Lauren and 24 Hour Fitness. There were other offers he turned down.
"He really speaks to not just his own story, but to a much more positive, outgoing, authentic scope that resonates with a lot of people, and not just the LGBT community," marketing expert Joe Favorito said. "In an era of less inclusion, he's the inclusion star. If he does well at the Olympics, it ratchets things up for him, not just for coming out, but for being the kind of inclusive individual who other people can rally around."

 

[AxelAnnie]

I came up with a rather wonderful idea for Adam's exhibition program. He should borrow Rudy's YMCA, except he could do GAAY!

 

[Aerobicidal]

Because the Village People are so oppressively straight in their original version?

 

[AxelAnnie]

That went right over my head!
Honestly, I don't know what you mean. Are The Village People bad in some way? Given all Rudy has been through, not the least of which was so many around him dying of AIDS, I thought it was an honor for Adam to skate to one of Rudy's most memorable programs.
Rudy - Wikipedia

His brother, George, died from AIDS in 1994. Another coach, Rick Inglesi, died of AIDS in 1995

as did his first coach.

He came out in Christine Brennan's book Inside Edge: A Revealing Journey Into the Secret World of Figure Skating (ISBN 0-385-48607-3), which was published shortly before he won his national title that year. He is the first openly gay skating champion in the U.S.

Now, in 1996 THAT took courage. Now, being gay is neither a surprise or a secret certainly in FS, Ballet, an Show Jumping. Sexual Orientation is only one characteristic of a human being.

 

[ks777]

I came up with a rather wonderful idea for Adam's exhibition program. He should borrow Rudy's YMCA, except he could do GAAY!

Or you could just STFU or find a message board where bigotry is accepted.

 

[Anita18]

Human beings are social creatures (which is why they are severely harmed when put in solitary confinement). We are shaped by our families and then by our communities as we grow older. Our families are shaped by our communities and society. Feeling accepted and encouraged is something people crave and is an integral part of one's developement. Positive reinforcement and negative consequences and trauma follow people from childhood to adulthood. That's basic psychology. People learn survival skills to be proud of their differences later on. Usually those who are successful at it find a support system that encourages them to be individuals. However, most people aren't ok and cannot learn to be ok with who they are if they don't receive that support system. You're missing how someone can go from point A to Point Z in their development.

Not everything is black/white in terms of legal/illegal. Life is messier than that, and people getting kicked out of their homes, shamed by their peers, bullied, harassed, etc. happens every day. Legal or not. Calling law enforcement might sound good to you if you think they'll actually help the situation. Others don't feel like it will or just internalize the hurt and try to deal with it alone.

I relate to Adam's journey in my own way - not because I'm LGBTQ but because I have a stutter. When I was younger, I was encouraged to hide it. I was raised thinking that if people observed my speech impediment, they would think I was stupid or that I was lying. People wouldn't trust me. Stuttering was something shameful, because I was told it had to be hidden away.

But the only way to hide it was to literally hide myself. Up until I was in college, I wouldn't talk to strangers if I could help it. Never even asked salespeople where the bathroom was, if I needed to go and was in a public place. And in a cruel twist of fate, the more you try to hide a stutter, the worse it gets!

Somewhere along the way, I started focusing less on how I said things, and more on what I was saying. I joined Toastmasters so I could communicate my ideas more effectively, not because I felt stuttering was shameful and I needed to "get over it". I celebrate my ideas and my speaking now, instead of hiding it all.

It's hard for me to track my own progress since I'm the one living it, but my Toastmasters friends assure me I have grown into my own. I am a much more self-assured, confident person from where I started. And that's what I see in Adam.

I last saw him compete at 2012 Nats, and at 2018 Nats, he was a completely different skater. He skated almost tentatively before, now he has total command and confidence on the ice. A major part of that growth can be attributed to his owning who he was, and not hiding it anymore. That is what I celebrate.

 

[Vagabond]

That went right over my head!

Many things do.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I last saw him compete at 2012 Nats, and in 2018 Nats, he was a totally different skater. That growth can be attributed to his owning who he was, and not hiding it anymore. That is what I celebrate.

This!

Years ago I read a book called Holding The Man, which documented the relationship between two guys who met as high school students, growing up in Australia in the 1970s.

Later, one of them becomes a guidance counsellor at a gay health centre support clinic. One of his clients was particularly distressed about why friends and family were so fascinated with him. The counsellor's answer has always stuck with me for some reason. He said, 'Special people get talked about'

 

[AxelAnnie]

Or you could just STFU or find a message board where bigotry is accepted.

Charming. A real glimpse into your mind and reasoning. Thanks.

 

[Dr.Siouxs]

Adam was pretty clear in his statement about how Pence's attitudes and actions lead to unjust victimization of particular demographic groups. He certainly wasn't celebrating his victimhood in saying that.

Simple question...what does Adam's absence do to change anything? Is Trump suddenly going to sign anti-LGBT legislation now that Adam decided to stay home instead of represent us and speak his mind in person? Seems like a missed opportunity, change can only occur with communication. But meanwhile "fans" applaud his "easy route rebellion".

Look, having a gay ambassador in a less-than-gay friendly environment is not unheard of...Brian Boitano coming to Sochi as a newly out man was incredibly brave. Why couldn't Adam yield his influence in this way?

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah because he's going to have an opportunity to speak to them about their anti-LGBTQ positions that they've taken in the past year in that environment and really change their minds there. For those who have been active in the fight and do it every day, you figure out some people are lost causes. Pence and Trump made their positions very well known and have done so much to undermine LGBTQ protections and they aren't going to change it. They already know the counter positions and read very detailed writings that counter their positions and don't care. For one, his anti-LGBTQ position is deep-seated in ideological belief and truly believes LGBTQ people are going to go to hell and deserve to. For the other, he has way too many interests attached to these anti-LGBTQ positions and lack of care about people in that community. He'd be talking to a brick wall. For something like you suggest to work, you have better luck communicating with people who actually will listen to you. This is just a PR event meant to bolster the image of the current administration and Adam is right to recognize it for what it is and I understand why he doesn't want to do anything to that can be seen as adding legitimacy.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

No, actions speak louder than words.
His outfits are simply just FABULOUS!

Did Johnny Weir really need to say he was gay???

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

There is certainly a lot of weight on his shoulders heading into South Korea. Not only as the fourth placed skater at the recent nationals selected under controversial circumstances. But now, as one of the few high profile gay athletes, too.

Maybe like the exhibition gala at NHK where Rippon sang instead of performed, instead of actually skating in the men's event, Adam, with mike in hand, could talk about the political injustice gay America is facing from their current administration for five minutes instead. I know I'm being facetious, but wouldn't that be something.

If people don't think the Olympics are all about politics, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Love you Adam!

 

[Dr.Siouxs]

Yeah because he's going to have an opportunity to speak to them about their anti-LGBTQ positions that they've taken in the past year in that environment and really change their mind there. For those who have been active in the fight and do it every day, you figure out some people are lost causes.

We managed to end desegregation in this country...but it wasn't because of THIS attitude. Very sad to read, you should become a demotivational speaker.

 

[VGThuy]

We managed to end desegregation in this country...but it wasn't because of THIS attitude. Very sad to read, you should become a demotivational speaker.

Maybe you should take a history lesson. First I think you mean end segregation, not end desegregation. Though it's sort of ironic that you said that because it's closer to the truth with what you wrote. Ending segregation was the work of many civil rights activists for decades who stood their ground and civil rights lawyers who challenged segregation in the Supreme Court after figuring out that then was the right time to finally bring forth that challenge after decades suffering in the wake of Plessy v. Ferguson, and knowing that the Court had enough justices that may side with them. Even afterwards there were huge issues enforcing desegregation. How it ended generally was electing NEW people who agreed with the ideology, having a President who actually cared about the issue and sent law enforcement to enforce it, and the work of countless people to rise up and force local institutions to desegregate while gaining support from people who actually sympathized and fighting against those who wanted segregation now and segregation forever.

Believe it or not, the NAACP and Justice Department (at least before) are still dealing with schools that haven't desegregated today. Desegregation wasn't a result of going to events celebrating people like Governor Wallace and pretending he'd listen to those who wanted to end segregation, but actively protesting people like him, working to elect new representatives, being loud (and obnoxious) about it, ruffling a few feathers, protesting, sit-ins, being nuisances, educating people who were willing to be educated, and getting physically attacked and intimidated on the front lines.

 

[Anita18]

As someone who now works in government...meeting the right people at the right time is everything.

 

[Dr.Siouxs]

Maybe you should take a history lesson.... Ending desegregation was the work of many civil rights activists for decades who stood their ground..

Doesn't seem like Adam is standing his ground, does it? At least not at the White House--he ran and hid. I guess now everyone can be an LGBT rights icon: just stay home and have some cereal!

 

[VGThuy]

Doesn't seem like Adam is standing his ground, does it? At least not at the White House--he ran and hid. I guess now everyone can be an LGBT rights icon: just stay home and have some cereal!

Well let's see, he went public snubbing the WH and now Pence. People are talking about. His quotes about specific LGBTQ issues have now been covered by mainstream publications. Pence heard about it and actually felt the need to respond to Adam's allegations against him and his support of gay conversion therapy. It ruffled your feathers and you end up posting about victimization being used as social currency, which shows you don't really care about effective means of protest or this issue because you think fighting for LGBTQ rights is just victimization. However, you dislike Adam for taking this stand against the current administration and have felt the need to respond multiple times in this thread. I'd say Adam has been pretty effective and he was just getting started.