2026 Worlds Free Dance PBP - Whale, That's All Folks!

[beckab81]

If FB/C stay in, is there any chance that we'll see them do a different style of program? Particularly with the Golden Waltz in the RD, I'm hoping we'll see a few more uptempo selections from teams for the Free, but struggling to feel optimistic about that for FB/C.

 

[my little pony]

Kevin is not retiring! I love him though it is hard on my central nervous system. he's actually one skater that has interesting exhibitions.

wrong thread but I'll leave it to give Kevin his flowers

 

[Kateri]

Even if I don’t like fb/c I am ok with quality starting to win again.

People complained about f/g placements for ages and now they lost on a technicality people complained too lol

Agree with you about quality, but regarding the F/G complaining, isn't that a good thing, that shows people aren't just being biased for/against them? Teams should lose if they lack quality, not on inconsistently applied technicalities.

 

[BittyBug]

The timing is unfortunate for F/G, but it’s no different than calls on flutzes or lips - sometimes they get called and sometimes they don’t. In a sport involving humans, it’s very difficult to be completely consistent. Plus, elements are not executed exactly the same from comp to comp.

 

[jlai]

Agree with you about quality, but regarding the F/G complaining, isn't that a good thing, that shows people aren't just being biased for/against them? Teams should lose if they lack quality, not on inconsistently applied technicalities.

For me the bigger question is whether F/g should place third over all the other top 10 teams even if we give them the two points back.

If no, then in my mind the deduction becomes a lesser issue.

 

[peibeck]

If FB/C stay in, is there any chance that we'll see them do a different style of program? Particularly with the Golden Waltz in the RD, I'm hoping we'll see a few more uptempo selections from teams for the Free, but struggling to feel optimistic about that for FB/C.

Isn't the Golden Waltz quite up tempo? I thought I read here it's 130 bpm.

While I would like to see some more uplifting and fun FDs, skaters do love their dramatic and emo selections.

 

[Rob]

Regarding Elbow-gate, the Skating Lesson has posted pics of F/G FD and one shows his left elbow very straight (looks locked out) and quite a bit higher up than his right arm (which has an obviously bent elbow). The left arm is holding her arm and the right is holding her leg, and her head is above her leg (she’s not completely horizontal in this lift).

Not sure if this will take you there. https://www.facebook.com/share/1AxV8u28LG/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Anyway a tech specialist who thought they were getting away with something could have been scrutinizing it with very eagle eyes all season. It’s a risky move if you get a little off balance.

 

[once_upon]

If FB/C stay in, is there any chance that we'll see them do a different style of program? Particularly with the Golden Waltz in the RD, I'm hoping we'll see a few more uptempo selections from teams for the Free, but struggling to feel optimistic about that for FB/C.

Realistically - 0.10%

 

[my little pony]

If FB/C stay in, is there any chance that we'll see them do a different style of program? Particularly with the Golden Waltz in the RD, I'm hoping we'll see a few more uptempo selections from teams for the Free, but struggling to feel optimistic about that for FB/C.

based on their exhibition, I dont think there is much chance of that

 

[Jeanine]

Apologies if this has already been asked but a friend just pointed out to me that ZingNik got hit with a minus 1 deduction. Protocol says “violation of choreo restrictions” - does anyone know what that entails?

 

[jlai]

According to the protocols there are two extended lift violations, one time violation, one costume violation and that is on top of F/G’s violation.

So 25% of the dance teams got a violation. Tough calling

Just checked, F/G got a lift violation last worlds too. Two violation calls last worlds (f/g and g/p with time violations). Last worlds the extended lift violation didn’t affect f/g’s bronze so perhaps the British fed let that one go.

 

[Jeanine]

Sorry; double post

 

[Sparks]

Can someone explain the costume violation?

 

[once_upon]

Can someone explain the costume violation?

Part of Christina's flower design came off and was on the ice

 

[Cachoo]

Regarding Elbow-gate, the Skating Lesson has posted pics of F/G FD and one shows his left elbow very straight (looks locked out) and quite a bit higher up than his right arm (which has an obviously bent elbow). The left arm is holding her arm and the right is holding her leg, and her head is above her leg (she’s not completely horizontal in this lift).

Not sure if this will take you there. https://www.facebook.com/share/1AxV8u28LG/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Anyway a tech specialist who thought they were getting away with something could have been scrutinizing it with very eagle eyes all season. It’s a risky move if you get a little off balance.

Thanks for posting this Rob.

 

[jlai]

F/G got two lift violations last year, one during the GP, and one at worlds. They did get one early in the season last time so couldn't complain about the one last worlds.
all in all, they do seem lift deduction prone

re: Z/G's deduction

They didn't get a deduction. You often see this sort of thing on protocols. 1/10 of the panel called them on violation of choreo restrictions. To get a deduction you would need a majority out of the 10 people.

 

[Karen-W]

Overall trend wise I think C/fb winning and this season in general signals a return of stricter calling of levels. If levels (if called correctly) will make more a difference in outcome so be it

This squad there has been numerous complaints about skaters earning placements just from having been around longer to earn the reputation.
With the French winning hopefully that tells everyone what the winnning standards are. Even if I don’t like fb/c I am ok with quality starting to win again.

People complained about f/g placements for ages and now they lost on a technicality people complained too lol

I don't think that FBCiz winning or this season of very inconsistent calling of levels from event to event signifies anything. There were some events where the calls were stricter and the result was screaming bloody murder by the fans of all the teams affected, especially since it mostly happened at two GPs.

The problem with ice dance is that it has increasingly become a "who has the best vibes" competition and there's very little rewarding of what supposedly matters in ice dancing, or used to matter, like skating in closed hold. SmaDie winning the FD small silver medal, FearGib finishing 5th (would have been 2nd without the 2 point deduction), and ReedAmbru finishing 6th in the FD don't really indicate that there is some sea change in how the discipline is currently being judged & what will win.

If anything, the fact that CarPon & LajLag had the highest BVs in the RD - CarPon tied for 1st with FBCiz & LajLag were 2nd, and CarPon had the 2nd highest BV in the FD, yet finished 8th & 9th, send a clear message that they should water down the difficulty level & go for crowd/judge-pleasing easier content that will ensure they vibe their way onto the podium. What does difficulty matter when the point difference between the levels isn't enough to make any sort of significant difference in the results?

 

[marbri]

F/G got two lift violations last year, one during the GP, and one at worlds. They did get one early in the season last time so couldn't complain about the one last worlds.
all in all, they do seem lift deduction prone

re: Z/G's deduction

All I see is a time violation (-1.00) at their first GP event in Finland. Plenty of teams get time violations on lifts early in the season.
I see no deductions in either of their events at worlds last year.

We need to stop pretending that a -1.00 time violation is the same as a -2.00 illegal element/movement...

Or that a team getting a time violation early in the season on a new lift makes them lift deduction prone..

The calling has been a serious issue this year and one of the arguments post Finland was the lack of consistency between the various panels was a serious problem that needed sorting out before the Olympics. The skaters and coaches who were often left completely perplexed and frustrated.

That's a problem with the system and training and education.

It shouldn't matter if one likes F/G or not. Or whether one feels they were over scored in one's opinion or not. GOE and PCS are subjective. Tech calls should not be subjective, particularly when calling a illegal element/movement.

 

[Rob]

Thank you! Can anyone here spot a meaningful difference? There's nothing on the Reddit thread that convinces me that this lift is any different than it was in previous competitions.

Seems foul that this was called for the first time in the last competition of the season by a caller who thought it was OK previously.....

Now that I know to look at his arms, I have watched this 6 times, and they are in more of a U shape in most of these and more of a V shape at worlds. They get a little straighter at the Olympics but not quite locked out.

 

[jlai]

All I see is a time violation (-1.00) at their first GP event in Finland. Plenty of teams get time violations on lifts early in the season.
I see no deductions in either of their events at worlds last year.

We need to stop pretending that a -1.00 time violation is the same as a -2.00 illegal element/movement...

Or that a team getting a time violation early in the season on a new lift makes them lift deduction prone..

The calling has been a serious issue this year and one of the arguments post Finland was the lack of consistency between the various panels was a serious problem that needed sorting out before the Olympics. The skaters and coaches who were often left completely perplexed and frustrated.

That's a problem with the system and training and education.

It shouldn't matter if one likes F/G or not. Or whether one feels they were over scored in one's opinion or not. GOE and PCS are subjective. Tech calls should not be subjective, particularly when calling a illegal element/movement.

I didn't say -1 is the same as -2. Basically they got a extended lift violation at last world like what they got early in the season.

https://results.isu.org/results/season2425/wc2025/FSKXICEDANCE----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

https://www.isuresults.com/results/season2425/gpfin2024/FSKXICEDANCE----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

I'm for consistency, training and education. Heck, call out Kaori's flutz or other skaters' lipping consistently too.
I just don't buy the conspiracy against the Brits.
I think the responsibility is on the system but also on the team's coaches to watch for these things. If a team got three violations in two seasons (even if they are different violations), then i think it's on the coaches somewhat

 

[Andora]

Big risk comes with big reward - but still big risk.

Considering how inflated F/G scores have seemed compared to ostensibly better skaters over this quad, it makes sense that they'd be miffed by scoring this season. But I can't say I have any sympathy for them here.

Maybe IAM will chill on these tricks that are asking for trouble, and serve their teams better.

 

[MacMadame]

Look, I have issues with them as people but I don't actually think it's possible to overmark that.

Truth.

Opinion. By definition.

Anyway a tech specialist who thought they were getting away with something could have been scrutinizing it with very eagle eyes all season. It’s a risky move if you get a little off balance.

The comments about inconsistent calling assume that he always does the lift that way. I think he was trying to keep the lift up and was adjusting in real time and the choice was a locked elbow or a failed lift. I don't think this is a case of inconsistent calling. Also, most of us noticed issues with that lift in real time. I don't think the tech panel has to have eagle eyes to see what was going on.

 

[puglover]

One would think that the very last thing a sport would want is what happened with Fear and Gibson yesterday and for it to happen at a packed house world championship is just ludicrous. I can't seem to follow the story - were they warned about this, had they come close before, how aware of this possibility were their coaches??? The fact their federation chose to get involved almost immediately after seems to suggest this was very unanticipated. Fans being on their feet celebrating and then lower marks coming up eventually explained as it being because of the angle of an arm does not attract people to a sport.

 

[Kateri]

Now that I know to look at his arms, I have watched this 6 times, and they are in more of a U shape in most of these and more of a V shape at worlds. They get a little straighter at the Olympics but not quite locked out.

Yes, it makes more sense from the angle in the video you shared - on the videos I'd seen before, it looked identical to their previous performances. Assuming that's the reason, I'll stop complaining about the call, though I do wonder if they'd been warned about it.

I kinda hope it scares people off doing these overhead lifts, though. I don't like this pairs-adjacent overhead stuff; didn't like that H&D one, either.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Regarding Elbow-gate, the Skating Lesson has posted pics of F/G FD and one shows his left elbow very straight (looks locked out) and quite a bit higher up than his right arm (which has an obviously bent elbow). The left arm is holding her arm and the right is holding her leg, and her head is above her leg (she’s not completely horizontal in this lift).

Not sure if this will take you there. https://www.facebook.com/share/1AxV8u28LG/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Anyway a tech specialist who thought they were getting away with something could have been scrutinizing it with very eagle eyes all season. It’s a risky move if you get a little off balance.

I believe that image is the unwatermarked image from Getty which can be seen here.

 

[Evgeniafan]

One would think that the very last thing a sport would want is what happened with Fear and Gibson yesterday and for it to happen at a packed house world championship is just ludicrous. I can't seem to follow the story - were they warned about this, had they come close before, how aware of this possibility were their coaches??? The fact their federation chose to get involved almost immediately after seems to suggest this was very unanticipated. Fans being on their feet celebrating and then lower marks coming up eventually explained as it being because of the angle of an arm does not attract people to a sport.

It doesn't help the sport. And seeing the skaters so happy to utterly devastated , is heartbreaking. Figure skating fans are not happy to see that. They had a standing ovation, the audience loved it. I may not watch ice dance live ever again. I am still upset.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Why do something that potentially it could lead to violations, whether they are a lift, choreography, costume, music, etc? Is it really worth the risk, particularly when so much is at stake?

Years ago a skater lost a local competition on the basis of a time violation. I was the accountant so I was doing the timing. The skater was a couple of seconds over. I had the parent ring me the next day to ask me about it. When speaking to the parent, found out the skater's music was long and the plan was the skater was going to stop before the music finished (this is what she told me). I had also spoken the person who actually cut the music and he told them the cut was too long and the skater said they would work around it. I had to say to the parent you were basically asking for trouble doing that. They appealed but lost the appeal.

Take the risk however don't complain if it doesn't go your way. Whilst you can strive for consistency of decisions through training and guidelines, the human eye is never perfect. That is why make it so it doesn't lend to interpretation.

 

[MacMadame]

It doesn't help the sport. And seeing the skaters so happy to utterly devastated , is heartbreaking. Figure skating fans are not happy to see that. They had a standing ovation, the audience loved it. I may not watch ice dance live ever again. I am still upset.

Figure skating is a sport. The winner isn't the one with the most crowd-pleasing program or the happiest athletes. It's the one who meets the requirements the best.

Part of what made that lift impressive is that she was up so high. And she was up so high because the rules were broken. I find the argument that this is bad for the sport to be similar to arguments that skaters who do easier jumps and don't fall should win over skaters doing much harder jumps and one fall.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

It used to be reduced to base value, and this was changed. I agree with you in theory, but then controversial calls like this would have even more of an impact.

Someone said the panel seemed unsure what to do, and the level of this left kept moving during the review - from 4 to base back to 3 (counting the lift but not the feature).

I’m glad the Brits are calling for a review of the judging…. but I highly doubt anything will be done. It never is.

Regardless of what one thinks about the results, the skaters deserve better and more consistent calling.

Maybe the countries of the top five teams should be barred from the tech panel, as they are at the Olympics IIRC. I’d feel differently about this call if it came from three neutral countries like JPN, KOR, SWE

To be fair, his hands position on this lift is indeed inconsistent itself. Watching that video way too many times, the way he performed the lift at Angers is quite different from how it was at the Olympics (which I thought was the most obviously straight arms above shoulders situation).

To be fair, though, I think these tiny nonfunctional overly pedantic rules are stupid. I don't think there's any reasonable justification for this rule other than "because these are the rules".

And to be ever fairer, lift or not F/G shouldn't have been anywhere near the podium anyway, so I am having hard time bemoaning the inconsistency in this particular instance.

 

[YourBorneo]

I think most of the younger teams are thinking they have at least 2 more Olympic cycles in them so they can probably wait out Gui's ego through 2030.

I bet his back gives out long before his ego.