2025-26 Program Music and Choreographers

[Karen-W]

i think we need to focus on the real enemy here and that is shawn rettstatt and his silly decades dance parties or whatever

they are trying to divide our hatred but i'll never lose sight of what matters (getting a waltz rd)

We really need Paul Poirier and Evan Bates to take over the IDTC and get us that damn waltz RD and bring back some semblance of apples-to-apples comparisons in the RD rather than the monstrosity it's become during Shawn Rettstatt's reign of terror.

 

[Lanie]

Paul and Evan for ISU Co-Dance Chairs!

 

[tony]

Who is doing a 90s inspired AI song?

It’s in the rules.

 

[Karen-W]

It’s in the rules.

Right, but can you tell us if any teams are actually going this route for their RD?

I haven't watched every single RD of every single team on the JGP, nor checked out the ISU bios of those teams or the teams that have competed at LPIDI, Int'l ID Dordrecht, Bolero Cup, Lombardia, or Skate to Milano, much less the US & Canadian domestic competitions this summer, so I'm genuinely curious if there's a team that's decided to use AI to create '90s-inspired music rather than trying to obtain the rights to actual '90s music.

 

[zigzig]

It’s in the rules.

What does it say in the rules? Is it to avoid copyright issues?

 

[tony]

Right, but can you tell us if any teams are actually going this route for their RD?

The point is that it’s in the rules that this is allowed, it’s in the rules to pull remixes from any other generation past the 1990s for given songs, and someone is nitpicking that a single from an album, which was released within the decade, and it must be removed. The ISU barely had rules about these stupid decades dances as it is. It doesn’t matter if no one ends up using AI. It’s still there as a valid option.

 

[Karen-W]

The point is that it’s in the rules that this is allowed, it’s in the rules to pull remixes from any other generation past the 1990s for given songs, and someone is nitpicking that a single from an album, which was released within the decade, and it must be removed. The ISU barely had rules about these stupid decades dances as it is. It doesn’t matter if no one ends up using AI. It’s still there as a valid option.

And? Your point is exactly what? The rules are pretty straightforward about what is and is not allowed. I was merely asking whether or not any teams had taken advantage of the decision to include 90s-inspired AI music rather than go with the originals or real remixes/covers.

I fail, though, to see why it is somehow unfair to allow use of AI but to disallow music that was released prior to Jan 1, 1990. Is this rule any worse than the '80s decade when the IDTC didn't even allow for remixes or covers in the '80s style and GuigFab were forced to change their Glee covers '80s RD with the original songs?

I just really don't understand why you're even bringing AI into the discussion about FBCiz's situation where their team clearly did NOT do their homework - BASIC homework at that - about the music they wanted to use to confirm it was within the rules as defined by the IDTC. It does not matter what the IDTC does or does not allow with regard to remixes or AI. But, I'm sure, if the IDTC ever reaches back into the annals of recorded music pre-1950 and allows remixes in the style of swing or big band or jazz that you'll go on some annoying rant about the number of teams that select Post Modern Jukebox covers for their RDs because complaining about the IDTC and how they're ruining the discipline has become one of your hobby horses.

 

[tony]

But, I'm sure, if the IDTC ever reaches back into the annals of recorded music pre-1950 and allows remixes in the style of swing or big band or jazz that you'll go on some annoying rant about the number of teams that select Post Modern Jukebox covers for their RDs because complaining about the IDTC and how they're ruining the discipline has become one of your hobby horses.

it’s a hobby horse of almost everyone here, including yourself. So what is your point, exactly?

‘Annoying rant’ I mean okay. Do you have mirrors?

The album itself was released within the decade. It’s a technicality that is so based on all the other stuff I listed as comparison- especially ‘has to be from the 90s but the 2025 AI that sounds like 90s isn’t 90s but that’s totally fine!’ If you are annoyed then send me to the ignore list!

Finally, it’s fine in the end since I’d rather see a different program from them anyways.

 

[Rukia]

I fail, though, to see why it is somehow unfair to allow use of AI but to disallow music that was released prior to Jan 1, 1990. Is this rule any worse than the '80s decade when the IDTC didn't even allow for remixes or covers in the '80s style and GuigFab were forced to change their Glee covers '80s RD with the original songs?

I mean AI music is clearly not from the 1990s lol but generative ai is straight trash and shouldn't be used anywhere so yes, it's a terrible terrible rule

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Maybe an enterprising team could find a 1990s song in waltz time and call their RD "The Shawn Hate Dance"?

i think we need to focus on the real enemy here and that is shawn rettstatt and his silly decades dance parties or whatever

they are trying to divide our hatred but i'll never lose sight of what matters (getting a waltz rd)

 

[Bigbird]

So a song that came out in 1989 with the album actually being 1990 is problematic but a completely made up AI creation in 2025 that gives VIBES of 1990 is fine.

some people do the most.

Clear as crystal.

 

[Bigbird]

Maybe an enterprising team could find a 1990s song in waltz time and call their RD "The Shawn Hate Dance"?

Straight up facts.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Maybe an enterprising team could find a 1990s song in waltz time and call their RD "The Shawn Hate Dance"?

How do we feel about “Kiss from a Rose”?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

How do we feel about “Kiss from a Rose”?

I quite like Kiss from a Rose but it might be in 6/8 time, not 3/4. I think Iris (1998) by the Goo Goo Dolls switches back and forth between 3/4 and 6/8 but FSU's resident musicologists will need to weigh in on that. Mind you, do Shawn Rettstatt and the IDTC even care about a rhythm's time signatures unless it's capable of "going viral"?

 

[Karen-W]

I mean AI music is clearly not from the 1990s lol but generative ai is straight trash and shouldn't be used anywhere so yes, it's a terrible terrible rule

Oh, sister, I'll join you on the anti-AI train and start shoveling coal if necessary, lol.

I'm on record as saying I hate the decades themes and especially the '90s one. But, again, the rules state the music has to have been released on or after Jan 1, 1990.

The album itself was released within the decade. It’s a technicality that is so based on all the other stuff I listed as comparison- especially ‘has to be from the 90s but the 2025 AI that sounds like 90s isn’t 90s but that’s totally fine!’

That same technicality prevented songs that were released AFTER Dec 31, 1989 but still sounded like late '80s music from being used two years ago. I'm not sure why you are having such difficulty in accepting there are going to be requirements that prevent some songs from being selected for this particular season. You may not like or agree with the technicality but, again, this is easily known information that should have caused IAM to inquire directly with the IDTC about it. That they're now having to change the RD after a judge brought up the fact that it was released in August 1989 clearly demonstrates that IAM dropped the ball, big time.

This feels like the same fight purists had 3 seasons ago when ChoBat added a Latin beat to Bowie's "Let's Dance" for their RD. It fell within the rules as prescribed even if it was as ridiculous and offensive to most of us as a team using 2025 90s-inspired AI music would be this season. We may hate it, but it's allowed. But, if ChoBat had shown up with the original "Let's Dance", it would have been a clear violation and they would have needed to change their music. Same the following season when GuigFab showed up with their Glee '80s covers RD that was a clear violation of the rules as set out by the IDTC.

You may not like the fact that the technicality is forcing FBCiz to change their RD (which was poorly received anyway, so hopefully this pushes them to come up with something better), but it is hardly the first time it's happened just during this Olympic cycle, nor will it be the last time some team pushes the requirements and gets snapped back by some hawk-eyed judge.

 

[Excidra]

I just watched G/P Vincent FD from 2019 worlds and for someone who has never watched this program before, it's spellbinding. I can only imagine what they will do with it given how much they've grown as skaters and artists.

 

[jmtfti]

I just find it strange that two different coaching/choreography teams (while one is IAM and one is IAMO, there was no apparent crossover in involvement here) both assumed the album having a 1990 release put the song within bounds, and one team has competed at two internationals with no apparent issue and the other team, using far less of the song in their program, is reportedly being dinged. Of course, there's a vast disparity in status between these teams, which is probably why Ritter/Brykalov got one vote for an ambiguous music violation at one event, and that was that.

I do think if this was going to be an issue, it should have been made explicit that singles would be treated as a song's official release date. I pretty much always just associate songs with their albums unless it's a really unique circumstance (like a band putting out a track or two between albums), so I don't entirely fault teams for potentially also viewing things that way, incorrect as it may have proven.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I am so glad that Alysa is changing her SP due to the tragic events associated with one of the artists. My heart goes out to the loved ones of the deceased girl.

As for scrapping this season's SP, I think that if anyone can pull off a fab new SP with new music, Alysa and her team can! I'll be happy to see her winning Worlds SP from last season at least a couple of more times out on the ice! I do very much hope that she is close to resolving her boots issue so that she can train and compete at full strength! And I hope that she keeps her new 3L-3R combo, especially in the bonus! I'm also interested in what costumes Alysa might come up with to go along with whatever new program she and her team create!

 

[4rkidz]

I just watched G/P Vincent FD from 2019 worlds and for someone who has never watched this program before, it's spellbinding. I can only imagine what they will do with it given how much they've grown as skaters and artists.

It’s even better now! Just wait. So pleased they have gone in this direction for their likely ‘swan song’.

 

[Coco]

I would love an Iris program.

 

[marbri]

It’s even better now! Just wait. So pleased they have gone in this direction for their likely ‘swan song’.

Have you seen it?

My hope is that it's a more mature angsty version to the movie soundtrack because as great as the original was I feel like they need more depth to it given it has been 5 years.

 

[skipaway]

I don’t quite understand the complete differing of opinions between the Shibs “possibly” re-doing their iconic Fix you program and G/P re-doing their iconic Vincent program. Why is one team heralded for it while the other is trashed.
I don’t want a re-hashing of any program so I’m not happy with either team. But the hating on one team and the complete opposite for the other befuddles me.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I don’t quite understand the complete differing of opinions between the Shibs “possibly” re-doing their iconic Fix you program and G/P re-doing their iconic Vincent program. Why is one team heralded for it while the other is trashed.
I don’t want a re-hashing of any program so I’m not happy with either team. But the hating on one team and the complete opposite for the other befuddles me.

I’m also not a fan of either, but the Shibs had seven years to think of a new program so that might be why people are more harsh toward that repeat.

 

[Wyliefan]

I don’t quite understand the complete differing of opinions between the Shibs “possibly” re-doing their iconic Fix you program and G/P re-doing their iconic Vincent program. Why is one team heralded for it while the other is trashed.
I don’t want a re-hashing of any program so I’m not happy with either team. But the hating on one team and the complete opposite for the other befuddles me.

Where are you getting "heralded"? The majority of G/P posts, including my own, were disappointed.

 

[skipaway]

Where are you getting "heralded"? The majority of G/P posts, including my own, were disappointed.

Heralding may be too strong a discriptor, but certainly a more positive reception than the Shibs received.

 

[marbri]

I don’t quite understand the complete differing of opinions between the Shibs “possibly” re-doing their iconic Fix you program and G/P re-doing their iconic Vincent program. Why is one team heralded for it while the other is trashed.
I don’t want a re-hashing of any program so I’m not happy with either team. But the hating on one team and the complete opposite for the other befuddles me.

Is it really that befuddling? There is a fear the Shibs are being gifted an Olympic spot to the detriment of another team in a very tight battle in US Ice Dance so fans of anyone below Chock/Bates will have a bad taste in their mouth. Especially if they choose to skate to Coldplay again

There were plenty of and "lame" regarding G/P but they don't have the baggage the Shibs bring into this season and were always going to the Olympics for Canada.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I don’t know, do you really think a team we have not seen in what is it eight years? Will be gifted a spot? I mean maybe if they took two years off… it’s terrible, what she had to go though. I am looking forward to seeing them perform.

 

[Karen-W]

I don’t know, do you really think a team we have not seen in what is it eight years? Will be gifted a spot? I mean maybe if they took two years off… it’s terrible, what she had to go though. I am looking forward to seeing them perform.

There's been a lively discussion in the US Ice dance thread about this possibility.

 

[Willin]

I personally hate G/P rehashing Vincent. KEEP G/P WEIRD! If they were going to re-do a FD, their Wuthering Heights one was one of their best scoring and one of the weirdest they've done in a long time.

As for the ShibSibs, I'm still not convinced they're rehashing Fix You. I already hated the second shoehorning re-hash of it into their Paradise program. But the truth is, they seem to score better when they use Fix You. They were in scoring trouble then Fix You happened and suddenly they were podium favorites. They weren't getting the response they wanted for Paradise the first time out so they added Fix You back in and voila! A third rehash would likely be an attempt for the same PCS boost they get from Fix You. Certainly the late timing of the comeback paired with the lack of feedback they're getting in actual competition/Champs Camp means they don't have time to figure out if anything but Fix You will get them the PCS they want.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I don’t quite understand the complete differing of opinions between the Shibs “possibly” re-doing their iconic Fix you program and G/P re-doing their iconic Vincent program. Why is one team heralded for it while the other is trashed.
I don’t want a re-hashing of any program so I’m not happy with either team. But the hating on one team and the complete opposite for the other befuddles me.

Well because we haven't seen these 2 programs, this is just early Olympic season snarking in the abstract (which some of us live for!). When we do see the two FDs, they could a)both be mediocre rehashes b)one will be a mediocre rehash and the other will be an awesome revival/reimagining c)both will be awesome revivals/reimaginings d)all of the above depending on your point of view and which team you're a fan of e) none of the above depending on your point of view and which team you're a fan of