2024-25 US Pairs Discussion - Triple-Twisting Through Tornado Alley

[farahfan]

I mean, I don’t really care what Ef/Mit do in their personal lives, but if she’s got a viable path to instant US citizenship, this has a big impact on US pair skating. First puts real pressure on all the top pairs, including Kam OShea, which is a good thing. When Alisa lands her jumps, she has no other flaws, and the pair is already training a new jump sequence. Second, how many other foreign skaters would like to take advantage of this path? The number is not small, I’m sure.

All speculation here…

 

[farahfan]

Wouldn't this be a very short timeline even if she were married? Although I suppose they might not understand that.

They’re working with lawyers…pretty sure they know what they’re doing…

 

[Amy L]

Wouldn't this be a very short timeline even if she were married? Although I suppose they might not understand that.

Some of those Colorado dance teams that got married had little to no chance making an Olympic team but they did it anyway. Perhaps the thinking is to maximize whatever chances they have no matter what.

 

[Rukia]

They’re working with lawyers…pretty sure they know what they’re doing…

I mean I guess, but we have two extremely talented ice dancers that have been getting their citizenship for ages at this point and if it were really that easy it would have saved them a lot of issues

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Some of those Colorado dance teams that got married had little to no chance making an Olympic team but they did it anyway. Perhaps the thinking is to maximize whatever chances they have no matter what.

Right, but what I'm saying is that, even with marriage, isn't it a long shot based on how long it takes to get citizenship with marriage. I'm not commenting on the likelihood that she is married, only on the likihood of getting citizenship on this timeline.

 

[Karen-W]

Right, but what I'm saying is that, even with marriage, isn't it a long shot based on how long it takes to get citizenship with marriage. I'm not commenting on the likelihood that she is married, only on the likihood of getting citizenship on this timeline.

I'd say so. She only came to the US in April/May 2023. Green card & citizenship in 2.5 years seems not at all possible.

 

[Rukia]

tbh i would love another citizenship marriage because since they are both adults who are able to make their own decisions about their lives it would be the most hilarious and chaotic option

i don't think that's actually the case I think they are just living on hopes and dreams but it would make me laugh really hard

 

[Wyliefan]

If they really think she can get citizenship that fast, with or without a marriage, I feel like they must have gotten some bad advice somewhere. This is not an uncommon issue in skating; you'd think they'd know better.

 

[Karen-W]

wrong thread

 

[Karen-W]

And the final ISU Championships Selection Pool table -

Skater

Level

Age Eligible

ISU Min Score

2024 U.S. Nats

GPF

GP/ JGP 1

GP/ JGP 2

GP/ JPG Highest

GP/ JGP Avg

CS/ Sr B/ Jr Int 1

CS/ Sr B/ Jr Int 2

CS/ Sr B/ Jr Int Highest

CS/ Sr B/ Jr Int Avg

Pairs Final (Top 2 in each Section JR/SR)

NQS Score (Top 2 in each Section JR/SR)

Non-USFS Funded Event

Prev Yr Final Number

Total

Kam, Ellie/O'Shea, Danny

S

Y

Y

189.57​

198.26​

201.73​

197.44​

201.73​

199.59​

191.62​

184.38​

191.62​

188.00​

0.00​

191.62​

0.00​

10

2385.23​

Flores, Olivia/Wang, Luke

J

Y

Y

152.20​

155.82​

139.51​

147.80​

147.80​

143.66​

0.00​

0.00​

114.92​

114.92​

0.00​

165.53​

0.00​

8

1803.08​

Efimova, Alisa/Mitrofanov, Misha

S

Y

Y

211.90​

0.00​

191.51​

171.92​

191.51​

181.72​

188.88​

178.03​

188.88​

183.46​

0.00​

188.88​

0.00​

2

1717.82​

Chan, Emily/Howe, Spencer

S

Y

Y

183.95​

0.00​

178.31​

174.40​

178.31​

176.36​

177.70​

142.16​

177.70​

159.93​

0.00​

0.00​

155.64​

0

1554.60​

McBeath, Katie/Parkman, Daniil

S

Y

Y

190.57​

0.00​

168.08​

159.92​

168.08​

164.00​

173.37​

138.70​

173.37​

156.03​

0.00​

173.37​

0.00​

0

1511.12​

Williams, Naomi/Lewer, Lachlan

S/J

Y

Y/Y

166.08​

0.00​

153.34​

122.67​

153.34​

138.01​

145.94​

116.75​

145.94​

131.35​

0.00​

148.57​

155.46​

8

1507.82​

Moss, Reagan/Galbavy, Jakub

J

Y

Y

154.68​

0.00​

127.16​

122.18​

127.16​

124.67​

126.87​

101.50​

126.87​

114.18​

128.60​

145.48​

127.34​

0

1310.35​

Martins, Isabelle/Bedard, Ryan

S

Y

4CCs

158.27​

0.00​

140.63​

112.50​

140.63​

126.57​

126.64​

101.31​

126.64​

113.98​

0.00​

141.52​

0.00​

0

1214.58​

McDanold, Addyson/Felberbaum, Aaron

J

Y

Y

134.18​

0.00​

121.82​

97.46​

121.82​

109.64​

105.19​

84.15​

105.19​

94.67​

127.73​

113.48​

134.72​

0

1161.83​

Carpenter, Saya/Maravilla, Jon

J

Y

Y

137.78​

0.00​

125.23​

129.80​

129.80​

127.52​

0.00​

0.00​

103.84​

103.84​

40.94​

0.00​

140.79​

0

1145.35​

Hansen, Elizabeth/Church, William

J

Y

Y

127.11​

0.00​

125.46​

132.44​

132.44​

128.95​

0.00​

0.00​

103.16​

103.16​

137.31​

132.27​

0.00​

0

1117.43​

Shin, Audrey/Nagy, Balasz

S

Y

4CCs

182.67​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

170.21​

136.17​

170.21​

153.19​

0.00​

157.59​

0.00​

0

1055.18​

Digerness, Nica/Sadusky, Mark

S

Y

4CCs

159.31​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

147.72​

118.18​

147.72​

132.95​

0.00​

166.00​

158.20​

0

1005.27​

Fitzpatrick, Linzy/Bearinger, Keyton

S

Y

4CCs

139.78​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

134.86​

107.89​

134.86​

121.37​

0.00​

134.86​

151.61​

0

894.53​

Hanns, Evelyn Grace/Neudecker, Danny

S

Y

4CCs

120.92​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

128.78​

103.02​

128.78​

115.90​

126.59​

135.49​

0.00​

0

796.55​

Korytek, Ellie/Chapman, Timmy

S

N

N

165.85​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

159.80​

156.28​

0.00​

0

782.37​

Cooke, Sydney/Kennedy, Matthew

S

Y

N

147.31​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

136.74​

137.86​

0.00​

0

692.08​

Jarmoc, Sofia/Witkowski, Luke

J

Y

N

136.70​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

118.54​

123.62​

0.00​

0

636.98​

Gottschalk, Graceann/Herbert, Sam

J

?

N

125.87​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

117.92​

102.20​

0.00​

0

587.99​

Shapovalova, Taisiya/Griffin, Carter

J

Y

N

109.05​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

106.57​

106.78​

0.00​

0

516.18​

McFarland, Mazie/Andjorin, Samir

J

?

N

100.52​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

90.28​

108.51​

0.00​

0

474.35​

Kovar, Milada/McPike, Jared

J

Y

N

100.93​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

90.66​

97.10​

0.00​

0

473.33​

The Worlds & 4CCs pool will consist of the following:
2025 Nationals Top 5 (sr age-eligible) - Efimova/Mitrofanov, McBeath/Parkman, Kam/O'Shea, Chan/Howe, Shin/Nagy
Top 5 Selection Pool - Kam/O'Shea, Efimova/Mitrofanov, Chan/Howe, McBeath/Parkman, Williams/Lewer
Top 10 2024 Worlds - n/a
2022 Olympian - n/a
Top 24 Current Season Senior World Rankings - Kam/O'Shea, Efimova/Mitrofanov, Chan/Howe, McBeath/Parkman

The Jr Worlds pool will consist of the following:
2025 Nationals Top 3 Age-Eligible from Seniors - Williams/Lewer (only junior age-eligible team in seniors)
2025 Nationals Top 3 Age-Eligible from Juniors - Moss/Galbavy, Flores/Wang, Carpenter/Maravilla
Top 5 Selection Pool - Flores/Wang, Williams/Lewer, Moss/Galbavy, McDanold/Felberbaum, Carpenter/Maravilla
Top 10 2024 Jr Worlds - Flores/Wang, Williams/Lewer
Top 24 Current Season Junior World Rankings - Flores/Wang, Carpenter/Maravilla, Hansen/Church, Moss/Galbavy, McDanold/Felberbaum

Kinda thinking that Williams/Lewer are going to edge out Carpenter/Maravilla for the 3rd spot on the Jr Worlds team.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Kinda thinking that Williams/Lewer are going to edge out Carpenter/Maravilla for the 3rd spot on the Jr Worlds team.

Would seem to make sense looking at the international scores.

 

[Karen-W]

Would seem to make sense looking at the international scores.

Well, yes, but WilLew's scores are from senior events with one less lift. But, it's a clear no-brainer to send them back to Jr Worlds over CarMar.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Well, yes, but WilLew's scores are from senior events with one less lift. But, it's a clear no-brainer to send them back to Jr Worlds over CarMar.

Sure, but the difference in scores is more than one lift.

 

[Frau Muller]

Great of the EFIMOVA and MITROFAMWV! How did I win the win? Not I just win Ilia tonight too? What a great winner nostalgic!

 

[Karen-W]

Holy... Damn... Pairs assignments are out - https://www.usfigureskating.org/new...s-world-world-junior-and-four-continents-team

2025 World Championships
Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov
Ellie Kam and Danny O'Shea

Alternate 1: Katie McBeath and Daniil Parkman*
Alternate 2: Emily Chan and Spencer Howe
Alternate 3: Audrey Shin and Balazs Nagy

2025 World Junior Championships
Olivia Flores and Luke Wang
Reagan Moss and Jakub Galbavy
Naomi Williams and Lachlan Lewer

Alternate 1: Saya Carpenter and Jon Maravilla
Alternate 2: Addyson McDanold and Aaron Felberbaum
Alternate 3: Elizabeth Hansen and William Church

2025 Four Continents Championships
Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov
Ellie Kam and Danny O’Shea
Audrey Shin and Balazs Nagy

Alternate 1: Emily Chan and Spencer Howe
Alternate 2: Katie McBeath and Daniil Parkman*
Alternate 3: Nica Digerness and Mark Sadusky

*Katie McBeath and Daniil Parkman have been assigned to Road to 26 Trophy (OWG Test Event) from February 19-20, 2025.

I don't think ANY of us saw that 4CCs selection coming based on both Nats or the season so far. I'm wondering if there's some undisclosed continuing injury with ChanHowe - Spencer looked really rough on their 2nd lift last night.

 

[ChillSkate]

Maybe this is just me but I'm wondering if something else is going on with Chan & Howe? Maybe an ongoing injury or maybe just difficulty working together?

I watched the Pairs medal ceremony last night and thought there was a very icy demeanor between Chan & Howe - like he didn't even help her up onto the podium like all other male skaters did for their partners (though it's admittedly less difficult to get onto the pewter medal step). But, even in the Short Program press conference linked to above, I thought Chan & Howe's demeanor was strange - she's trying to speak seriously about returning from injury while he's joking around and making stray comments.

I used to love Chan & Howe - I think they are still exquisitely costumed and look great together but they are just not the same since his shoulder surgery. Maybe it is just rust or continued injury but something just seems very off with them.

 

[ChillSkate]

Why were McBeath & Parkman assigned to Road to 26 and not Four Continents? Do they not have required minimum scores?

 

[Karen-W]

Why were McBeath & Parkman assigned to Road to 26 and not Four Continents? Do they not have required minimum scores?

They have the CTES mins for Worlds, so this was a strategic choice.

 

[tangerine dream]

I'm happy for Shin/Nagy to get this opportunity but I don't think McB/Park should have been skipped over. If this Road to 26 was a prestigious event you would think USFS would want to send Kam/O'Shea since you know they expect them to be going to the Olympics.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm happy for Shin/Nagy to get this opportunity but I don't think McB/Park should have been skipped over. If this Road to 26 was a prestigious event you would think USFS would want to send Kam/O'Shea since you know they expect them to be going to the Olympics.

Unless the choice by the USFS Int'l Assignments committee was to send the highest-placed Olympic-eligible team at Nats to this event and they were all aware of this...

 

[Private Citizen]

I'm happy for Shin/Nagy to get this opportunity but I don't think McB/Park should have been skipped over.

What do you think about Chan/Howe being skipped over?

I've often said the USFS needs to get behind high potential skaters/teams more quickly, so I'm glad to see Shin and Nagy being set up well for next year.

If they are Olympic eligible and McBeath and Parkman are not, then I understand it. The USFS needs to set up Olympic-eligible teams with WS points, GP assignments, etc.

Hopefully Chan and Howe being benched means Jason Brown will be, too, but that's for another thread.

 

[ChillSkate]

If USFS's strategey is to only send Olympic-eligible teams to high level international competitions, then why did they send Efimova & Mitrofanov? Maybe felt their hand was forced since they clearly won Nationals?

 

[cailuj365]

I think USFS is prioritizing teams that they know have US citizenship and can eventually represent them in Milan. Get Shin/Nagy out there now to start building an international reputation. The international judges already know Chan/Howe.

I do feel a bit sad for McBeath/Parkman, especially since along with Efimova/Mitrofanov, they seem to be the team with the most upward trajectory over the last 2 years. Parkman seemed to spend his childhood in the US too -- wonder if one his parents is American, because Parkman is obviously not a Russian name.

 

[PRlady]

If USFS's strategey is to only send Olympic-eligible teams to high level international competitions, then why did they send Efimova & Mitrofanov? Maybe felt their hand was forced since they clearly won Nationals?

Maybe because they’re good enough to win slots even if they can’t fill one?

 

[Spiralgraph]

All these good questions and no answers. I don't even want to speculate anymore. I'm getting tired trying to figure USFS out.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think it makes any sense to send McBeath/Parkman to an OLYMPIC test event if they aren't eligible for the Olympics. Why waste the experience of gaining familiarity with the Olympic venue on a team that won't be able to capitalize on it in another 12 months?

Having said that, as I pointed out in the Int'l Assignments thread... Both ChanHowe & McBPark are well-positioned in the SB Top 24 already at 18 & 20 respectively, so they're guaranteed at least 1 GP assignment and not likely to drop out of the SB Top 24. ShiNagy, on the other hand, are #23 and could easily be pushed out of the SB Top 24 by about 5-7 teams further down or yet to compete this season. Giving them 4CCs is an opportunity to improve on their SB and guarantee at least 1 GP next season. Pairs is the smallest field on the GP with just 48 spots total. There are probably about 20 teams that I can list off the top of my head who have demonstrated they're deserving of 2 spots next season, but someone's likely to wind up on the short end of that stick between host spots being held back or given to less-qualified teams.

 

[BrightSkates]

I just hope Shin/Nagy get that 3tw because a 2tw or even a cheated base value 3 twist on international stage like that is not good

 

[Rukia]

I just hope Shin/Nagy get that 3tw because a 2tw or even a cheated base value 3 twist on international stage like that is not good

Audrey said they've been working it hard and they really wanted to start trying it in competition so she was happy they did it in the short here. They got a level 2 on it. Honestly it seems like their team is pacing them pretty well for someone so new to pairs.

 

[cailuj365]

If USFS's strategey is to only send Olympic-eligible teams to high level international competitions, then why did they send Efimova & Mitrofanov? Maybe felt their hand was forced since they clearly won Nationals?

I have no problem with the assignments. They all make sense to me based off Nationals performance, future potential, and eligibility for future events.

Based off what we saw last night, Efimova/Mitrofanov could be on the 4CC podium. Chan/Howe...idk. They seem to be plateauing/backsliding from their previous years. Obviously, all the time off from injury has not helped, but they have been mediocre upon their return, and they've had 5 competitions already. I didn't realize that they had not won a Nationals title yet, and I'm not sure if it will happen for them in the future now.

Shin/Nagy are going to be a future US nationals champion, IMO, could even be as early as next year, who knows. They still have a lot of work to do, but I see a lot of promise, and the issues they have seem fixable with more time and experience.

K/O have a lot of great qualities too. Great speed, lifts, performance skills. I think they will be able to rebound by Worlds and show at least a similar level to what they had displayed in the fall. Their SP program is fantastic. They skated it really well at Nationals, so it wasn't a complete disaster of a competition for them.

E/M is possibly the only US pairs team that I've really connected with in my skating fan history. I don't see how they'll get to the 2026 Olympics, but I'm so glad they're part of the Nationals and Worlds stage. Lovely, big throws, beautiful posture and extension in the lifts, gorgeous and difficult death spirals, great unison, nice connection with each other and the audience. This is what pairs should be about. Even the SBS jumps are improving. If she had citizenship, USFSA would have been pushing this team from the start over K/O.

 

[BrightSkates]

Audrey said they've been working it hard and they really wanted to start trying it in competition so she was happy they did it in the short here. They got a level 2 on it. Honestly it seems like their team is pacing them pretty well for someone so new to pairs.

I thought that call was extremely generous. That twist didn't look clean even the commentators said it. Don't think it would hold up on international stage without improvement.