2023 World Team Trophy Day 2

[skatingguy]

Team Standings​

Rank	Team	Nation	Men	Men	Women	Women	Pairs	Pairs	Ice Dance	Ice Dance	Total Points
			SP	FS	SP	FS	SP	FS	RD	FD
1	Team United States of America	USA	12		10	9	12		12	12	90
			9		7	7
2	Team Republic of Korea	KOR	11		12	12	7		7	7	75
			3		6	10
3	Team Japan	JPN	6		11	11	11		9	8	74
			2		8	8
4	Team France	FRA	10		5	6	8		8	9	60
			8		3	3
5	Team Italy	ITA	7		4	5	9		11	11	55
			5		1	2
6	Team Canada	CAN	4		9	4	10		10	10	51
			1		2	1

 

[Private Citizen]

What about her pre-rotated Flip and flat edge lutz is "text book"?

Kaori's jumps are landed with control, like that 2A. No one can really do that jump or multiple others of hers like she does.

Kaori's lutz deserves a full-blown "e" as it's never on an outside edge, so I can't complain about Lee's flat edge while Kaori is getting off scot-free. Kaori's flip picking technique is extremely sloppy and weird, to the point that I think it's a form of cheat similar to the Eteri girls. Again, it's hard for me to complain about Lee in comparison.

Sure, the solo double axel deserves a +4 for the speed and control, but I wouldn't say any of her other jumps are anywhere close to that. Lee had far more control on the majority of jumping passes.

Both Korean girls got borderline calls: 3Lz+3T< for Kim and 3F!q for Lee, while Kaori got only the blindingly obvious 2A+3T<. The judging seemed biased in favor of Sakamoto as usual, though at least Mai Mihara got calls today (though not the "e" she deserves on the flip).

 

[skatingguy]

The tech panel made sure that wasn't gonna happen, lol. Their TES dropped a good 3 points on review.

Muramto/Takahashi's Dance Spin went from level 4 to level 2.

 

[On My Own]

Kaori's lutz deserves a full-blown "e" as it's never on an outside edge, so I can't complain about Lee's flat edge while Kaori is getting off scot-free. Kaori's flip picking technique is extremely sloppy and weird, to the point that I think it's a form of cheat similar to the Eteri girls. Again, it's hard for me to complain about Lee in comparison.

I did not claim Kaori's jumps are textbook. You claimed Haein's jumps are textbook.

Kaori's picking technique is not "sloppy and weird", certainly not a form of cheat similar to the Eteri girls. Her preturn is much more in control, her upper body is fully coordinated with her lower body when she's on (Eteri girls twist into the rotation and force the jump, hence why their lower backs get injured and why people feel they're jumping with their arms), her speed in to the jumps is much higher. It's actually this high speed into her flip that gets her to mistime her pick and she pops it when she's nervous - her upper body enters rotation before she picks in.

Kaori's edge jumps are all far superior to Haein's, there's no question there whatsoever. Her 3Lo definitely deserves very high GOE. Haein loses out on the GOE edge there, and given similar flaws on the toe jumps, Kaori's amplitude there does come into consideration.

 

[nuge]

Agree. I get why it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really like this program for them, and appreciate them trying something different.

Well it really was my cuppa tea! Loved it all season and watching it develop. So nice to see something different for them and they pulled it off. RD was great too. They have said they probably will stay on another year I so hope they do.

 

[Colonel Green]

Looking at Japan vs Korea for second, it’s ironic that the rules written to minimize Japan’s historical weakness in pairs and dance now minimize the benefit they can receive from their clear superiority over Korea in both those disciplines.

 

[On My Own]

Looking at Japan vs Korea for second, it’s ironic that the rules written to minimize Japan’s historical weakness in pairs and dance now minimize the benefit they can receive from their clear superiority over Korea in both those disciplines.

I don't think it really matters tbh lol. It's just a fluff event. The actual Olympic team event, while also flawed, doesn't do it this way. There Japan will have a very obvious advantage. And Japan put their hearts into the event that mattered much more this season, their exhaustion is to be expected.

Not to mention, Japan doesn't have a clear number 2 in women right now, and Uno withdrew due to injury, leaving two men who aren't exactly consistent or big scorers by any means.

 

[her grace]

Not to mention, Japan doesn't have a clear number 2 in women right now

Mihara is clearly Japan’s number 2.

 

[On My Own]

Mihara is clearly Japan’s number 2.

Not really? She's number 2 this season, but I don't really see her as indispensable, or someone who's going to be able to handily beat everyone but Kaori at nationals next season.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think it really matters tbh lol. It's just a fluff event. The actual Olympic team event, while also flawed, doesn't do it this way. There Japan will have a very obvious advantage. And Japan put their hearts into the event that mattered much more this season, their exhaustion is to be expected.

Not to mention, Japan doesn't have a clear number 2 in women right now, and Uno withdrew due to injury, leaving two men who aren't exactly consistent or big scorers by any means.

The rules for the Olympic TE are flawed in a different way with the SP having a far greater impact on the points than the FS. Additionally, who is to say how badly off Korea will be in another 3 years in either pairs or dance compared to Japan. I think LimQuan can easily close the points disadvantage they currently have against KanaDai and their scores here indicate they would already beat KoKo. ChoAd scored 60+ in the SP with ZERO prior international exposure, and they'd have scored better if they were from a larger fed with any sort of pairs presence.

 

[skatfan]

Glad I decided to sleep through the second group of Dance and the women. Very happy for Chock and Bates improving their performances from Worlds when Maddie was sick.

Skipped over the first group of women except for Yelim. Glad for decent skates and Haein winning the free skate, and Isabeau having another good skate.

Who had Canada fighting for last place in this comp? Wow.

 

[Wyliefan]

Not really? She's number 2 this season, but I don't really see her as indispensable, or someone who's going to be able to handily beat everyone but Kaori at nationals next season.

You said "a clear number 2 in women right now." Right now isn't next season. If she's number 2 right now, she's number 2 right now, regardless of what happens next season.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I have a break, so I’m watching things for the next couple hours unspoiled.

dance

first group, wow the the French were really good, and so were the Japanese, I’m surprised M/T did not take the lead

Second group, warm up is on the ice, wow the Italians wore all black for both of their programs? I hope next year they do something much different.

Piper/ Husband #1 - really good, I’m not usually into Evita programs anymore but this was very nice. I do love it. I do think their straight line lift at the end could be more impactful to the music. Love them.

Italians in black - I love the entrance to the first lift. This program has grown on me as the season has gone on. It would be nice to see them take gold in Milan, but there still is my favorite alien coming up. I think we need a Barbara appreciation thread.

Snake/alien/flame - lovely opening, another program that has grown on me throughout the season because I’m so used to them doing character Programs. I love when she is in the split position and he is sliding her across the ice. Love the ending just like I like the ending of the Italians

oh, it looks like Team USA got the memo to be present in the box

 

[Matryeshka]

Where the hell did this South Korean team come from to them! What a great way to start a competition. Before this started, I really wished Georgia had made it instead of South Korea, but now I kinda wish Georgia had made it instead of France. Aside from the men, France has been rather meh.

Off topic wish but within acceptable boundaries, does anyone know what happened to that North Korean pairs team? They had some potential, went to an Olympics and then...crickets. I don't know if it was posted and I missed it or knew and forgot or no one knows.

I like the French costumes and while I don't love Eilish on them I don't mind it either. This program has grown on me, like fungus. I think the main problem with K/K is that they're just not very good and we expect more from French pairs. Though this wasn't an awful outing, one of their better ones which is kind of sad.

France rocking the KnC once again. I like the Norwegian Bearded Lady in a Circus vibe Aymoz is rocking. I'm glad France found Lopareva and vice versa. They belong together.

S-D/S showing that any music can work, and it's the routine that matters. I'd have never picked tango for these two but it really works well for them. I love how pissed she is about the loop. Another one I'm glad found her country. I know people get annoyed with country hopping, but sometimes, magic happens.

WHERE IS THE MOOSE CANADA. Keegan trying, but he does not have the Jason Brown vibes to keep the whole KnC going.

C/M, the great surprise of this season. Ooo, ouch on that spin. That spin was hanging out with Deanna's loop.

My doggie Chewbacca has that exact same long pink tongue!!

I can't be mad that M/K are world champs because they're just so darned adorable and she especially has such obvious joy for skating but I hate that they're world champions with these programs. Really well done here though. That was a world champion worthy skate.

K/F I just can't imagine Alexa actually retiring; she clearly still loves competing.

Ilia very spirited in the KnC

 

[Karen-W]

Ilia very spirited in the KnC

I'm 100% living for Ilia and Jason in the KnC together, and for Ilia totally getting into the Team USA spirit. Take that, Rossiya! He's ours and "proud to be an American!"

 

[On My Own]

I'm 100% living for Ilia and Jason in the KnC together, and for Ilia totally getting into the Team USA spirit. Take that, Rossiya! He's ours and "proud to be an American!"

Don't you think it would be better if he wrote "Take that, Rossiya!" on a piece of parchment, tied it to the leg of a bald eagle, and set it flying in the k&c, and then announced to the world it was going to deliver his message to Putin?

 

[Karen-W]

Don't you think it would be better if he wrote "Take that, Rossiya!" on a piece of parchment, tied it to the leg of a bald eagle, and set it flying in the k&c, and then announced to the world it was going to deliver his message to Putin?

Nahhhhh... no need to be quite so heavy-handed. The Russian FS press, fans and insiders can attempt to claim him all they want, but they look pretty dumb when he's clearly into the whole Team USA thing at WTT, lol.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Women Group 1

Lara - amazing start, where was this yesterday? doing good, all green so far. I think @Sylvia commented on this such an interesting program, what a breath of fresh air green all the way, amazing. her and Loena have a great endings to their free programs.

SMD - well, speaking of music choices… she could use a lot more speed. Yeah, this music just goes nowhere.

LS - lovely dress. What a great opening combo. Also needs to develop speed as she continues next season. lovely sit spin combination. oh crap, I forgot this goes into MR. at least the MR is subtle. some really good sit spin positions, good for her.

Anna- OK I’m excited to see this. Wow look at the height on that first opening jump combination over 11 1/2 points and wow what an amazing triple loop Are you kidding me that double axle could’ve been a triple axel I’m loving the costume, I’m loving the program. She seems to be losing some focus. But she has command and presence on the ice, just needs confidence. I don’t mind having to sit through the four seasons now because she is my one to watch for the next season. Question – her layback spin. Is she able to do a Biellman?

LS - nice dress. Well past I’ve seen her skate all season, but I wish she would smile or some thing throughout her programs. OK there is one at the end.

Kim - she’s become one of my favorites. Spectacular opening combination. That was amazing, good job. Very funny in the kiss and cry. what is the score, congratulations.

 

[Matryeshka]

I feel sorry for anyone not watching this out of some bizarre, misguided principle. This event so far has been chocked to the brim with truly excellent skating and I can't imagine any true fan depriving themselves of such a treat just because this is a newer competition. Made for TV or not, good skating is good skating and this is good skating. AND FUN. I support anything that gives skaters more exposure and more opportunities at $$$.

L/Q, fantastic! Kind of jealous of Korean skating fans right now; it must be so exciting to have good representatives in all disciplines for the first time. This team is so expressive--I really did think she was going to eat his heart. I know people said they should have done half senior half junior this year but I think making their international debut at WTT was really smart. Not a lot of pressure, lots of support from the audience, know that they really aren't going to win so they can come out and have fun but we'll all remember what a great performance they had here.

L/B. I adore this program. Any minute now I expect it to fade to black and white with long shots of the Eiffel Tower in the rain with Gertrude Stein and Hemingway and the Fitzgeralds being all pretentious in the background. YES! A BERET! A BERET! BE STILL MY HEART! Fa in a pikachu onesie is EVERYTHING

M/T. This is honestly the most impressed I've ever been with Takahashi as an ice dancer. He has the performance skills down; now he needs to work on the actual skating skills. Usually I feel like he's skating for himself first then the crowd then her and this felt more like an actual dance. Truly excellent tonight.

P/G I don't care what y'all say, this is a fabulous program. Piper was meant to be Ice Evita. And the waltz section is SO GOOD. I would love to see them as World Champs some day. @Bunny Hop you are not the only one that loves this program. I adore that they stay in character throughout and anyone who doesn't is a heartless monster

G/F, my two favorite programs back to back. A lucky spring break for me indeed. And the Koreans with a new favorite! If only the cannibal siren Finns could have been here it would have been PERFECT. I mean, Chock and Bates were going to win, they could have just given them the points and invited the teams with the FDs that I like. Japan being all selfish and unreasonable.

Why isn't Babs a meme? Can we make that happen? Babs needs to be viral always. And bonus points for Miki Ando!!

C/B. OK, as an American, can we not do the USA chant? It's obnoxious, especially right before a skate. All right, I'll eat some crow--that was a masterful performance of that FD. Very Jekyll and Hyde season for C/B. Deservedly their highest score of the year. What has impressed me the most about this team this year is not just their ability to listen to criticism but do something about it. Not every top-tier team would make so many necessary changes to their FD. I mean, let's face it, there's a good chance they could have won with the original version and I respect them so much for not. At the beginning of this season I was so ready for them to retire and be all lovey-dovey happy with each other but now I really want to see what they do next year.

Ilia still not at Jason levels, but damn, that boy puts his all into everything. MASSIVE improvement in spirit since the beginning, expect a big jump in KnC GOE points.

 

[Private Citizen]

Not really? She's number 2 this season, but I don't really see her as indispensable, or someone who's going to be able to handily beat everyone but Kaori at nationals next season.

I agree with you here. She's a workmanlike skater with small, underrotated jumps (and a terrible lip, even if it doesn't get called). I suspect she'll be a footnote by 2026 as the up-and-comers get their jumps more consistent. There are enough of them that odds say at least two of them will.

 

[On My Own]

I agree with you here. She's a workmanlike skater with small, underrotated jumps (and a terrible lip, even if it doesn't get called). I suspect she'll be a footnote by 2026 as the up-and-comers get their jumps more consistent. There are enough of them that odds say at least two of them will.

Rinka Watanabe can easily get ahead of her. Her skating lacks a special quality to make her stand out, IMO, and she already had her "comeback story" season this time, so JSF might drop her after she failed to deliver at worlds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Women group 2

Amber – well, we have to admire keeps going for the triple axel no matter what. Great combination right after. She seems to be losing steam and gas throughout the program. I noticed her GOE isn’t as high as it should be on some of these elements. I would think that the altitude training would be helping her. Funny, kiss and cry, glad they’re doing something.

Mai - I was saying we so rarely ever see her fall, and then she was tilted in the airSuch a consistent and reliable skater, sometimes her programs aren’t always my thing. Great job. I’m surprised her score came down that much, I think her technical may have been lower than Amber?

Madeline - oh no did she just take out a jump? Oh looks like she’s doing a Michelle Kwan and adding it right back in five seconds later, and does it! that takes experience. I’m glad she returned to this program, wondering if she will be below Amber. Seems as if she’s running out of gas as well. I guess this will be below Amber

hopefully be able to watch the last three this evening

 

[npavel]

Isn't Rika Kihira coming back? I really like her

 

[skatingguy]

Isn't Rika Kihira coming back? I really like her

Rika competed earlier in the season. She didn't have all her triples back in her competitive programs, and though she had some good skates during the Grand Prix, she struggled at Japanese nationals. We'll have to see what she can do over the summer to continue to regain her form from several years ago.

 

[skatingcheckers]

Pairs SP protocols: https://results.isu.org/results/season2223/wtt2023/data0303.pdf

GREAT job, Alexa & Brandon!!!

I enjoyed seeing how proud coach Chris was as well as Brandon's "We Love You Todd" sign. Now THAT was worth waking up way-too-early for!

ETA: I didn't realize this was the first time K/F have broken 80 in the SP (previous ISU PB was 77.65 at this season's GPF).

I just watched K/F on Peacock replay. Wow - what a team. They really clicked. It's like they bring out the best in each other. I would so LOVE them to continue on after this season.

 

[Matryeshka]

Gutmann was born too late. This would have killed early/mid 90s. Program is amazing and her back is so beautifully straight.

Dupuis This is a rather severe, heavy look on her. Yesterday, I got Hughes vibes from her. Today, Wagner. Neither really works on her.

Not Schilde's night either. I'm about to get out the fast forward button. OK, off to do a load of dishes while Pezzetta is skating. Lea at least trying, maybe?

YELIM!!!!! YAAAYLIM!!!!!!! She so deserved/needed that.

Glenn was Glenn. Almost, but not quite. I wish skaters would focus on going clean in their elements before trying to tackle the big ticket items like 3A. The 4A didn't win Malinin the gold. I feel like she's a place holder until the younger skaters get more experience and move up or Tennell gets back on track (for one more season anyway).

Schizas was not...awful.

Levito, gah, this music. I like it as an instrumental but the vocals add NOTHING to it. Ahh, good skate and her "almost" comment. Still really good, especially by comparison.

KAORIIII!!!!!

Lee, wow. That was beautiful. I barely noticed her weird scrunchie. Koreans having an absolute blast in the KnC. I need those ducky thingies.

 

[Lanie]

Haven't had time to watch yet but can't wait. Haein is so special and has a sort of floatiness that I really loved at 4CCs. I enjoy Yelim too and am glad she skated well. I enjoy them a lot more than I ever liked Yuna's skating

 

[marbri]

Glad I decided to sleep through the second group of Dance and the women. Very happy for Chock and Bates improving their performances from Worlds when Maddie was sick.

Skipped over the first group of women except for Yelim. Glad for decent skates and Haein winning the free skate, and Isabeau having another good skate.

Who had Canada fighting for last place in this comp? Wow.

Pairs and Dance are where expected at this point. Neither were going to place better than 3rd.
The single skaters are weak this year and Keegan is hot and cold but even with a good SP from Keegan they would still be fighting for last place.

 

[skatingguy]

Pairs and Dance are where expected at this point. Neither were going to place better than 3rd.
The single skaters are weak this year and Keegan is hot and cold but even with a good SP from Keegan they would still be fighting for last place.

Plus, we suck at this event. It's never been taken seriously by Skate Canada, and until Canada got access to the ISU YouTube channel we couldn't even watch it because neither broadcast network wanted to be bothered with it.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Isabeau - seem to be traveling to slow for the triple L triple loop, I’m going to guess it was under rotated? wow, she is so consistent, what a great performance. But I will be glad not to hear this music next season

Kaori - her jumps are amazing. I could see Amber skating to this song elastic hearts by Sia. wow fantastic triple triple in the second half. Do we know if she is continuing on? oh wow, the double axle triple toe after the double axle did not look great. I said, please don’t go for a triple. oh my gosh what a funny kiss and cry.

Lee – solid start. Nice women’s competition. wow, I wonder if this will take the lead. and it did, wow. Look at the top for women All have great awesome scores