2022 Olympic Qualifying Changes?

[Karen-W]

So why these funky new rules for qualifying Olympic spots?

Might I suggest you read all 4 pages of this incredibly long thread to find the answer to your question?

 

[kwanfan1818]

The document with the rules in it was published in 2019, so if there was any changing of minds, it would have been sometime after that.

tl;dr: The team event is the Godzilla who ate the missing pair team (1) and dance (2) entries.

I don't understand why there were no missing singles, then. It's 30 for Ladies and Men, business as usual, when in 2014, Parr got a Men's quota spot for GBR and in 2018, Buchanan got a Ladies quota spot for ISR.

 

[Cherub721]

The timeline in the document also states that the ISU will publish no less than 3 weeks after Worlds the initial list of qualified countries for all disciplines, so it's possible that Japan just straight away says "we don't have a 2nd pairs team, we're giving it back" rather than try to hold onto it until at least Nebelhorn.

I might be confusing myself, but even if they give the spot I still see a distinction between whether they earned one or two at worlds.

If they earned two, then the two were part of the berths earned at worlds and their unused spot should go to the next highest worlds finisher.

If they earned one with the chance to earn a second, then that's an extra slot opened at Nebelhorn and it doesn't go to the next team from worlds.

 

[skatingguy]

I thought the ISU never published that China was allotted three spots, only that China sent three, and they accepted the applications without checking. Is this wrong?

No, that's my understanding of what happened.

 

[seabm7]

If they earned one with the chance to earn a second, then that's an extra slot opened at Nebelhorn and it doesn't go to the next team from worlds.

I think both options are possible, but JSF will go for this way.

 

[tony]

This is why what Jackie Wong is hearing is ridiculous, IMO.

The second ITA dancers will not make the FD. Guignard and Fabbri will almost surely make top 10. The ISU is going to take away a spot from an actual qualified team in the final standings to ‘hold’ for the Italians to try to earn again at Nebelhorn?

No.

 

[coppertop1]

Imagine if a skater won gold but only qualified one spot because their teammate didn't make the free skate? I can't say I like this new system.

If countries are going to need to qualify for additional spots, they should have a separate CS event from the who are trying to earn that spot

 

[tony]

Imagine if a skater won gold but only qualified one spot because their teammate didn't make the free skate? I can't say I like this new system.

If countries are going to need to qualify for additional spots, they should have a separate CS event from the who are trying to earn that spot

that’s not the case either. If a skater wins gold and the other skater didnt make the free, that is 19 points and the country has earned 2 spots for the next Worlds. They earn one spot to Olympics automatically and they are allowed to send that other skater or anyone else from the country to Nebelhorn to officially earn that second spot.

Would you rather the skater in 39th place automatically get a spot because of the gold medalist and take away from the skater who actually made the free skate here?

 

[tony]

Martin Bidar has confirmed directly to me that the Czech Republic has officially earned an Olympic spot based on their pairs placement.

This should put to rest spots being ‘held’ for countries that potentially earn more entries, because CZE was the country that was on the bubble regarding the alternate scenario being passed around.

Official document will be released Monday with all qualifiers.

It appears Wong is wrong.

 

[greenapple]

Was the last minute past the deadline for actively accepting, which is a requirement to keep a spot? If you don't respond/file paperwork by the deadline, that is giving up a spot. It would have been an exception to let them compete, which I'm glad they did.

It was past the deadline but Bach/IOC was determined to include PRK athletes and concessions were made for diplomacy reasons.

 

[thvu]

I think something we need to remember is that Jackie is a reporter, not an analyst. Posters here on FSU have a much greater depth of knowledge and understanding about the sport and its rules.

 

[Karen-W]

I think something we need to remember is that Jackie is a reporter, not an analyst. Posters here on FSU have a much greater depth of knowledge and understanding about the sport and its rules.

Jackie was also saying that this is what he was hearing from some federations' officials, so it seems there was some degree of confusion about how the rule would be applied.

 

[tony]

I think something we need to remember is that Jackie is a reporter, not an analyst. Posters here on FSU have a much greater depth of knowledge and understanding about the sport and its rules.

While I don’t put it past the ISU to be ambiguous or change their minds on things, it is still an issue that sources within the sport were confirming other scenarios than what is written. He didn’t ever say who it was coming from, but he did mention repeatedly that it was coming from people that would be ‘as close to official’ or the top as possible, or something like that.

Now, team CZE was told one thing and I really don’t see how it can change Monday without a huge scandal.

 

[Erin]

So, going back to the original thread where this was reported from the ISU Congress discussion, I think this part might be the key:

UZB (Artem Knyazev) related his own story from 2005 Worlds where he missed the direct qualification by one spot so he and his partner did not receive funding to train for the next season (because they were not olympic qualifiers) while with this new rule he would have qualified directly and got the funding and support needed.

This example suggests that Jackie’s interpretation is incorrect and that the skaters at Worlds are the ones who directly qualify.

It would have been nice to have a document with published examples though.

 

[tony]

So, going back to the original thread where this was reported from the ISU Congress discussion, I think this part might be the key:




This example suggests that Jackie’s interpretation is incorrect and that the skaters at Worlds are the ones who directly qualify.

It would have been nice to have a document with published examples though.

I don’t ever expect anything that in-depth from the ISU, but the words ‘only if’ in the document seen to shut out any alternate interpretations anyways. (IMO)

 

[VGThuy]

From everything I'm hearing, this new rule is actually way better than the old one.

 

[Seerek]

So, going back to the original thread where this was reported from the ISU Congress discussion, I think this part might be the key:




This example suggests that Jackie’s interpretation is incorrect and that the skaters at Worlds are the ones who directly qualify.

It would have been nice to have a document with published examples though.

I think you're right - because if we were to use the 2017 World Pairs results with Jackie's methodology to determine 2018 Olympics results, we're back to Square One with being able to assign exactly 16 berths.

 

[allezfred]

tl;dr: The team event is the Godzilla who ate the missing pair team (1) and dance (2) entries.

Actually for some weird reason it has been 24 teams since 1998 so the team event Godzilla only ate one dance team.

 

[Braulio]

#WongIsWrong

@tony

 

[kwanfan1818]

There was a suggestion in one of the threads that if an NOC was eligible for >1 at the next Worlds, that if they didn't have the matching number qualify for the Free, that the spot would be reduced from the Worlds allocation and added to Nebelhorn.

That contradicts the left column in the Olympic qualification document which lists the number of spots to be allocated at Worlds, and the document clearly skates that they keep allocating to lone spot NOC's who skate the Free until they run out of spaces, or, presumably, qualified skaters/teams, which would happen any time in singles when any NOC loses a spot or two from what they had this year.

 

[Coco]

#WongIsWrong

@tony

Jackie Wong is reporting what he's hearing from 'insiders.' So in the context of everything happening right now, and Wong being a not uncommon Asian last name, focusing your hashtag on the messenger is not a positive thing.

 

[tony]

Jackie Wong is reporting what he's hearing from 'insiders.' So in the context of everything happening right now, and Wong being a not uncommon Asian last name, focusing your hashtag on the messenger is not a positive thing.

Jackie is hearing the info from skating Federations but it contradicts what the rules laid out say and what Bidar confirmed to me above. I said it jokingly in the last line of my post, and knowing @Braulio , we don't have to worry about it turning into a trending Twitter hashtag. So I'll do the apologizing for saying it in my post. Jackie and I talked quite a bit yesterday about the annoyance of the document, and I have a feeling he's just relaying info from people that didn't read it correctly and never went back to check again.

 

[Braulio]

Jackie Wong is reporting what he's hearing from 'insiders.' So in the context of everything happening right now, and Wong being a not uncommon Asian last name, focusing your hashtag on the messenger is not a positive thing.

Calm down I am not using this hashtag at twitter nor will I

 

[Coco]

@Braulio hmmm....anything about my post seem uncalm? Nope.

 

[allezfred]

So called insiders are often wrong. The only way to be sure of something is to see it with your own and the Olympic qualifying document cannot be read any other way.

 

[seabm7]

So does this mean for the women's and men's signles, as long as an NOC has someone in the free, that NOC would have at least one ticket?

 

[Karen-W]

So does this mean for the women's and men's signles, as long as an NOC has someone in the free, that NOC would have at least one ticket?

the way the math worked out for the ladies, men and dance, yes. Pairs only has 16 spots being awarded at Worlds so with 20 pairs teams in the FS, there are a few teams that didn't get a spot - all the teams below HUN.

 

[seabm7]

So what will happen to the German man? Fentz could not get to free, but did German get the Olympic ticket?

 

[Seerek]

I don't know what to believe, some sources saying every country down to Czech Republic got Olympic berths. So what does that mean, 11 berths available at Nebelhorn?

 

[shuilee]

I suspect Mitch Moyer is likely Jackie's source. Phil Hersh said the same thing as Jackie, and Phil's source was Mitch.

Any chance USA fed mis-understood it? Or it's the CZE fed that mis-understood it? such a mess.

From a USA perspective, I suppose it's better that we only have to place 9th (instead of 6th) at Nebelhorn to get that 3rd spot, assuming Mitch Moyer is correct. I'd hope that one of Alysa Liu, Mariah Bell or Amber Glenn could achieve it.