2022 Olympic FS Team Event delayed medal ceremony - updates

[kwanfan1818]

It might very well not. In Canada an arbitrator decided that the Canadian Fed needed to release Soucisse/Firus because they we basing their refusal on super-secret rules they didn't tell anyone about. I wouldn't count on CAS doing something similar in this case, nor do I think it's impossible that they'd read into the documents something that isn't there. I just don't think it's because they're on Russia's side only, since they just rejected the three Russian cases. (Something I wasn't sure they'd do, either.)

Topic-adjacent: did WADA ever rewrite their documents to add in the "this-does-not-apply-to-protected-people", or "this is the only thing that applies to protected people" in their own documentation? So that CAS wouldn't make things up in the future, and so that the CAS precedent doesn't stand?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I didn't say they were totally on Russia's side. I said they weren't completely clear of weird decisions in Russia's favor in this process.

 

[screech]

I don't think it's a given Canada is getting medals. The ISU made it clear who they want to cater to with their initial (batshit) decision. I think it's best to assume the worst on this.

I'm wondering if the Canadian soccer scandal will affect the ruling in any way. The situations are in no way related, but Canada might not be viewed that fondly right now. With Canada soccer making an appeal to the point deduction, part of me wonders if the COC is going to be given a 'choose one or the other' kind of offer.

 

[skatingguy]

I'm wondering if the Canadian soccer scandal will affect the ruling in any way. The situations are in no way related, but Canada might not be viewed that fondly right now. With Canada soccer making an appeal to the point deduction, part of me wonders if the COC is going to be given a 'choose one or the other' kind of offer.

I don't see that as having any impact on the decision.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I'm wondering if the Canadian soccer scandal will affect the ruling in any way. The situations are in no way related, but Canada might not be viewed that fondly right now. With Canada soccer making an appeal to the point deduction, part of me wonders if the COC is going to be given a 'choose one or the other' kind of offer.

I would bet almost any amount of money that will have nothing to do with the figure skating decision.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think the decision will depend on whether the ISU had explicit rules stating that the TE standings would not be recalculated in case of a DQ. If they do, and they were legitimately put in place, I think Canada will be SOL. If there isn't a legitimately created rule, then precedent will be the issue, and it could go the way of whether the muesli was soggy that morning or not.

 

[Frau Muller]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1817862990110068880

Leave it to Christine Brennan to get the time down pat! I hope she’s there!

 

[Lilia A]

Leave it to Christine Brennan to get the time down pat! I hope she’s there!

I think she's mainly covering swimming, and the swimming competitions end on the 4th, except the open water event but that's several days after the 5th. No women's basketball either. I hope she's at the ceremony.

 

[Karen-W]

I think the decision will depend on whether the ISU had explicit rules stating that the TE standings would not be recalculated in case of a DQ. If they do, and they were legitimately put in place, I think Canada will be SOL. If there isn't a legitimately created rule, then precedent will be the issue, and it could go the way of whether the muesli was soggy that morning or not.

The ISU's rules for the TE state that the results are to be treated the same as they are for the individual disciplines - DQ skater's result is removed and placements are re-adjusted to move skaters who finished behind DQed skater up.

The issue is that the ISU did not do this and they did not adjust the points for the new placements of the TE Women's SP and FS. That's what Canada is appealing.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Except I believe the ISU pulled out another document that they say superseded any we're referencing, so we'll see what happens.

 

[Lilia A]

Except I believe the ISU pulled out another document that they say superseded any we're referencing, so we'll see what happens.

All I could find is the statement published on February 9th where they say "For the sake of clarity Rule 353 para 4 in the ISU Special Regulations is not applicable in this case." P.S. The missing comma is not my fault, that's how they wrote it. So, they say that the rule does not apply, but they don't say why. They offer no explanation. I would make an argument that this was never in the team event rules and they're just making it up because it's convenient to them. They should just say they're afraid to leave Russia without a medal and would rather upset Canada because it's easier this way. I might respect them a little bit (maybe, but not really) if they're at least honest about it rather than saying "these rules says this but, oh by the way, they don't apply in the team event, sorry we forgot to mention it despite this being the third Olympics with a team competition, but they don't apply because we say so now." May I suggest they amend their team event rules and regulations asap so there are no problems in 2026? Unless they don't want to update the rules so that they can make up their own rules however they see fit.

 

[Rukia]

All I could find is the statement published on February 9th where they say "For the sake of clarity Rule 353 para 4 in the ISU Special Regulations is not applicable in this case." P.S. The missing comma is not my fault, that's how they wrote it. So, they say that the rule does not apply, but they don't say why. They offer no explanation. I would make an argument that this was never in the team event rules and they're just making it up because it's convenient to them. They should just say they're afraid to leave Russia without a medal and would rather upset Canada because it's easier this way. I might respect them a little bit (maybe, but not really) if they're at least honest about it rather than saying "these rules says this but, oh by the way, they don't apply in the team event, sorry we forgot to mention it despite this being the third Olympics with a team competition, but they don't apply because we say so now." May I suggest they amend their team event rules and regulations asap so there are no problems in 2026? Unless they don't want to update the rules so that they can make up their own rules however they see fit.

lol they should have just said "For the sake of clarity Rule 353 para 4 in the ISU Special Regulations is not applicable in this case because we forgot about it when we wrote the decision and don't want to have to admit we're wrong now"

 

[Lilia A]

lol they should have just said "For the sake of clarity Rule 353 para 4 in the ISU Special Regulations is not applicable in this case because we forgot about it when we wrote the decision and don't want to have to admit we're wrong now"

They should, but then they're too late. The exception to the rule was never there to begin with, why should it be applied retroactively? Let's be real, if instead of Russia this had been Italy or Ukraine or even Canada, then Rule 353 para 4 most likely WOULD HAVE applied.

 

[Karen-W]

All I could find is the statement published on February 9th where they say "For the sake of clarity Rule 353 para 4 in the ISU Special Regulations is not applicable in this case." P.S. The missing comma is not my fault, that's how they wrote it. So, they say that the rule does not apply, but they don't say why. They offer no explanation. I would make an argument that this was never in the team event rules and they're just making it up because it's convenient to them. They should just say they're afraid to leave Russia without a medal and would rather upset Canada because it's easier this way. I might respect them a little bit (maybe, but not really) if they're at least honest about it rather than saying "these rules says this but, oh by the way, they don't apply in the team event, sorry we forgot to mention it despite this being the third Olympics with a team competition, but they don't apply because we say so now." May I suggest they amend their team event rules and regulations asap so there are no problems in 2026? Unless they don't want to update the rules so that they can make up their own rules however they see fit.

lol they should have just said "For the sake of clarity Rule 353 para 4 in the ISU Special Regulations is not applicable in this case because we forgot about it when we wrote the decision and don't want to have to admit we're wrong now"

They should, but then they're too late. The exception to the rule was never there to begin with, why should it be applied retroactively? Let's be real, if instead of Russia this had been Italy or Ukraine or even Canada, then Rule 353 para 4 most likely WOULD HAVE applied.

Here is the most mind-blowing thing about this mystery non-application of Rule 353... The ISU has the EXACT same language in the 2026 Olympic Qualification document as was in the 2022 Olympic Qualification document. The ONLY change is the year - 2020 v 2022 - of the ISU Special Regulations in effect.

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links-2/2022-beijing/qualification-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Olympic-Games/Milano-Cortina-2026/qualification-system/Qualification-System-for-Figure-Skating.pdf

4) ISU JUDGING SYSTEM – RESULT DETERMINATION

The ISU Judging System as described in the 2020/2022 ISU Special Regulations Single and Pair Skating/Ice Dance shall apply, in particular but not limited to Rule 352 and Rule 353.

To determine the result after the Short Program/Rhythm Dance and for the final result after the Free Skating/Free Dance of the Team Event the following rule will be used:

For each discipline and segment Team Points will be awarded as follows:

1st 10 placement points
2nd 9 placement points
3rd 8 placement points
4th 7 placement points
5th 6 placement points
6th 5 placement points
7th 4 placement points
8th 3 placement points
9th 2 placement points
10th 1 placement point.

The highest five (5) ranked Teams based on the number of aggregate Team points in the Short Program/Rhythm Dance shall continue the Team Event by competing in the Free Skating/Free Dance. In case of a tie on the 5th place, the tie breaking criteria are listed below.

The Team having earned the highest number of aggregate Team points in the Short Program/Rhythm Dance and the Free Skating/Free Dance is the winner, the Team having earned the second highest number of Team points is ranked second and so on.

When forming the intermediate and final result, in case of a tie between Teams, the tie breaking procedure will be used taking into consideration

• The highest aggregate Team points per Team from the two (2) best places in different disciplines will break the tie;
• If they remain tied, the highest total sum of the segment/total scores of the two (2) skaters/couples, who build the tie, will break the tie;
• If they remain tied, the highest aggregate Team points per Team from the three (3) best places in different disciplines will break the ties;
• If they remain tied, the highest total sum of the segment/total scores of the three (3) skaters/couples, who build the tie, will break the tie;
• If these criteria fail to break the ties, the Teams will be considered tied.

The ISU is just so full of it when it comes to how they applied their own rules and they couldn't even be bothered at this year's ISU Congress to come up with a new rule that applies JUST to the point reallocation (or non-reallocation) in the event of a DQ from the Olympic TE. We all know why the ISU did what they did here, they're not even trying to be subtle or coy about trying to appease Russia.

I guess the question is how big of a defense they mounted during the closed CAS hearing. If CAS does decide in Canada's favor then the ISU can point to them and tell Russia "sorry, we tried to award you the bronze, don't hate us, it's CAS' fault it went to Canada instead." That may very well be the play here. We just have to wait and see.

 

[kwanfan1818]

However, you are all forgetting the Sekret Dokument that says "New Rulz," which is kept with all of the Sekret Babies.

 

[coppertop1]

Meagan weighs in

 

[Vagabond]

Meaghan, it’s not all about Canada.

 

[coppertop1]

Meaghan, it’s not all about Canada.

She never said it was

 

[Vagabond]

She never said it was

"Then when Canada gets bronze they don’t get a real ceremony?"

 

[On My Own]

Meagan weighs in

For everyone who needs to hear it again: Canada doesn't HAVE a medal. I don't care if "for now" or for "another hundred years" or "never".

Let the people we know have won it celebrate, for once.

 

[coppertop1]

For everyone who needs to hear it again: Canada doesn't HAVE a medal. I don't care if "for now" or for "another hundred years" or "never".

Let the people we know have won it celebrate, for once.

And let people advocate for clean athletes who haven't been rewarded and speak up about an ongoing issue

 

[Debbie S]

When Canada filed its appeal, they stated that the IOC should award the medals to USA and Japan as soon as possible, don't wait for their appeal. I agree Canada should get the bronze, but the ISU continues to punt and CAS continues to drag its feet. But that shouldn't prevent the skaters who have earned their medals and waited through the appeals on their case for 2 1/2 years from getting them.

 

[barbk]

For everyone who needs to hear it again: Canada doesn't HAVE a medal. I don't care if "for now" or for "another hundred years" or "never".

Let the people we know have won it celebrate, for once.

I'm irked that the ISU/WADA/CAS have all followed the Roberts Court approach to delay, delay, delay...but I'm glad that at least two of the teams are getting to celebrate now.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm irked that the ISU/WADA/CAS have all followed the Roberts Court approach to delay, delay, delay...but I'm glad that at least two of the teams are getting to celebrate now.

This analogy is an utter fail.

We have no idea how many cases and appeals CAS has to hear from sports feds, athletes, etc. They schedule the hearings on, as far as I can tell, a first come-first serve basis. As others have noted, the COC filed their appeal after the ROC/RFSF/Russian TE members. In scheduling these hearings, there are lots of moving pieces - unlike the SCOTUS, CAS panel members have jobs separate from their role with CAS.

They are working through the legal underpinnings of both the COC's position and the ISU's position, deliberating and writing their opinion. Furthermore, whatever decision they render will be final and the IOC/ISU will then award the bronze medals. This isn't something that gets sent back down to a lower court for additional review because that court didn't complete its due diligence before CAS heard the arguments.

 

[On My Own]

And let people advocate for clean athletes who haven't been rewarded and speak up about an ongoing issue

Yeah, "clean" is all they had in a total of one division, in comparison with Russia. And please, it's not "advocating for clean athletes" going on in that tweet. It's about not getting that medal along with the others and having a "ceremony".

It's nobody's fault but Canada's own that they didn't push for this like the US did. If they knew and wanted that bronze, they should have pushed. You don't get to insert yourselves into someone else's moment now.

 

[skategal]

When Canada filed its appeal, they stated that the IOC should award the medals to USA and Japan as soon as possible, don't wait for their appeal. I agree Canada should get the bronze, but the ISU continues to punt and CAS continues to drag its feet. But that shouldn't prevent the skaters who have earned their medals and waited through the appeals on their case for 2 1/2 years from getting them.

Yeah I keep thinking that there was a deal worked out in advance where Canada won’t stop the medals from being distributed and the USA and Japan will make sure Canada gets a good ceremony if they get the bronze.

Also I’m sure there were concerns for all the athletes emotions about having the Russians show up for a medal ceremony to get the bronze if they get awarded it after the Canada appeal is over.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Canada couldn't push for anything appeals-wise until the ISU announced the updated results.

 

[barbk]

This analogy is an utter fail.

We have no idea how many cases and appeals CAS has to hear from sports feds, athletes, etc. They schedule the hearings on, as far as I can tell, a first come-first serve basis. As others have noted, the COC filed their appeal after the ROC/RFSF/Russian TE members. In scheduling these hearings, there are lots of moving pieces - unlike the SCOTUS, CAS panel members have jobs separate from their role with CAS.

They are working through the legal underpinnings of both the COC's position and the ISU's position, deliberating and writing their opinion. Furthermore, whatever decision they render will be final and the IOC/ISU will then award the bronze medals. This isn't something that gets sent back down to a lower court for additional review because that court didn't complete its due diligence before CAS heard the arguments.

Sport is huge business. Their failure to have adequate panels (full-time, paid) is ridiculous. Justice delayed is justice denied.

 

[Karen-W]

Yeah, "clean" is all they had in a total of one division, in comparison with Russia. And please, it's not "advocating for clean athletes" going on in that tweet. It's about not getting that medal along with the others and having a "ceremony".

It's nobody's fault but Canada's own that they didn't push for this like the US did. If they knew and wanted that bronze, they should have pushed. You don't get to insert yourselves into someone else's moment now.

Listen, it isn't as of Japan was pushing hard like the US was either. Additionally, none of the USA, Japan or Canada had "standing" in the Valieva appeal. The USA wasn't even allowed to have any of our athletes observe the CAS hearing last year despite requesting it - again, because they had no standing in the WADA/ISU/IOC appeal against RUSADA's lightweight non-punishment of Valieva.

Agree or disagree with that silent approach from Japan & Canada but also recognize that as soon as the ISU screwed Canada out of their bronze medals, they did object and filed their appeal.

It will be a shame if they are unable to have an Olympic medal ceremony in Paris or elsewhere but eventually they will get their moment.

 

[Karen-W]

Sport is huge business. Their failure to have adequate panels (full-time, paid) is ridiculous. Justice delayed is justice denied.

Yeah, but your analogy is still a fail.