2022 Grand Prix Assignments - when do they come out?

[barbk]

Perhaps they could expand the field for 5 GP events (say, upping singles entries to 15) if a sixth GP can't be sited.

 

[Karen-W]

So, we might have a bit of insight into how the ISU plans to allocate GP assignments to the Russian and Belarusian skaters who are currently ranked in the WS and SB Top 24 if we go off of what they did for the JGP allocations. They've listed RUS and BLR as eligible for 1 entry in 2 events, just like any other ISU member, subject to the lifting of the protective measures in Communication 2469.

I'm wondering if they're going to tentatively assign the Russians and Belarusians who are eligible for ONE and reassign those spots if the measures aren't lifted within 14 days of each event.

If that's the case then the following skaters would receive ONE assignment:

Men (6) - Evgeni Semenenko (WS11/SB11), Mark Kondratiuk (WS15/SB5), Mikhail Kolyada (WS16/SB12), Andrei Mozalev (WS18/SB19), Petr Gumennik (SB22), Makar Ignatov (SB23)

Women (12) - Anna Shcherbakova (WS1/SB2), Alexandra Trusova (WS4/SB3), Kamila Valieva (WS5/SB1), Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (WS9/SB5), Maiia Khromykh (WS17/SB7), Viktoria Safonova (WS22), Alena Kostornaia (SB8), Daria Usacheva (SB12), Sofia Muravieva (SB17), Adelia Petrosian (SB18), Anastasia Zinina (SB23)

Pairs (6-7 teams)- Tarasova/Morozov (WS1/SB3), Mishina/Galliamov (WS2/SB2), Boikova/Kozlovskii (WS6/SB4), Pavliuchenko/Khodykin (SB7), Chikmareva/Ianchenkov (SB20) - are they still together?, Khabibullina/Knyazhuk (SB21), Mukhortova/Evgenyev (SB24)

Dance (4) - Sinitsina/Katsalapov (WS1/SB3), Stepanova/Bukin (WS8/SB5), Davis/Smolkin (WS17/SB9), Khudaiberdieva/Bazin (SB19)

 

[MacMadame]

I'm wondering if they're going to tentatively assign the Russians and Belarusians who are eligible for ONE and reassign those spots if the measures aren't lifted within 14 days of each event.

Can you imagine the screaming if they did that? What a horrible message to send to the Ukrainian skaters on top of that.

 

[Karen-W]

Can you imagine the screaming if they did that? What a horrible message to send to the Ukrainian skaters on top of that.

Well, I think we all know that the chances of the measures being lifted in the next 4-5 months are extremely low. But, I suppose the question is - how is the message for GP assignments any different than whatever message is sent by allocating to RUS & BLR the standard JGP assignments that every ISU member is eligible to receive?

 

[MacMadame]

how is the message for GP assignments any different than whatever message is sent by allocating to RUS & BLR the standard JGP assignments that every ISU member is eligible to receive?

What?!

 

[Karen-W]

What?!

Go read the JGP announcement - RUS & BLR have been allocated 1 entry in 2 events in each discipline, as they're qualified to receive per the JGP rules - subject to the lifting of the protective measures. So, if the ban is lifted before their assigned events, they can send entries.

My guess, based on that, is that the ISU might follow the GP rules to the letter and give 1 initial assignment to all of the Russian & Belarusian skaters (Safonova) who qualify because they're in the WS or SB Top 24.

 

[On My Own]

So it very much is that TWO of the six events haven't been confirmed yet. https://fs-gossips.com/the-isu-cant...of-the-six-stages-havent-been-determined-yet/

 

[MacMadame]

Go read the JGP announcement - RUS & BLR have been allocated 1 entry in 2 events in each discipline, as they're qualified to receive per the JGP rules - subject to the lifting of the protective measures. So, if the ban is lifted before their assigned events, they can send entries.

Ugh, I missed that. I think this is a horrible precedent. It makes me not want to watch skating.

 

[Karen-W]

So it very much is that TWO of the six events haven't been confirmed yet. https://fs-gossips.com/the-isu-cant...of-the-six-stages-havent-been-determined-yet/

I wouldn't read too much into that - it could be that the ISU has two countries that could host the weekend that was slated for the Russia GP (we know Finland submitted for that one) and they're checking with Finland to see if their proposed venue could possibly host the weekend that was slated for the China GP instead because the other country's venue is only available the weekend of the Russia GP.

Russian media is going to do their best to present the most dire scenario - the ISU doesn't have TWO of the six confirmed yet - as a way of making it look like, without Russia, skating will DIE.

 

[On My Own]

Go read the JGP announcement - RUS & BLR have been allocated 1 entry in 2 events in each discipline, as they're qualified to receive per the JGP rules - subject to the lifting of the protective measures. So, if the ban is lifted before their assigned events, they can send entries.

I don't think it will - didn't the new president say he's for the ban?

Russian media is going to do their best to present the most dire scenario - the ISU doesn't have TWO of the six confirmed yet - as a way of making it look like, without Russia, skating will DIE.

Ah, okay, I can see that.

 

[Karen-W]

Ugh, I missed that. I think this is a horrible precedent. It makes me not want to watch skating.

No, all it really does is prevent any CAS lawsuits from being filed by the RUS & BLR feds. If the ban isn't lifted by the entry deadlines for each of their JGPs, then they can't submit entries. Same/similar process will apply to the GP - assign the skaters the assignments they've earned and then remove them and assign those vacant spots to other skaters 2 weeks prior to each event.

I don't think it will - didn't the new president say he's for the ban?

He isn't in favor of lifting the ban, that's correct. But that doesn't mean the ISU can't disregard its rules for GP/JGP assignments, I don't think. Skaters will probably get assigned and then removed if the ban isn't lifted by the 14-days prior to the event deadline.

 

[On My Own]

I don't think the US, Canada, Japan or France is in a position to host a 2nd GP - the first 3 are hosting ISU Championships this season also, and France has already stepped up to host a 2nd JGP.

Italy could pick it up, tbh. They can host the final GP, and then step right into the GPF. Don't think it'd be that hard, although of course I have no idea about their financial condition.

I don't think now is the time to care about an even distribution of events.

 

[Dobre]

Hmm. The junior athletes on the bubble have to decide early whether to move up. If spots are held for the Russian athletes, we may see some juniors opt for the JGP that wouldn't otherwise.

 

[Vagabond]

So it very much is that TWO of the six events haven't been confirmed yet. https://fs-gossips.com/the-isu-cant...of-the-six-stages-havent-been-determined-yet/

The source for this is Match TV, which is owned by Gazprom Media. I think they are just stirring the pot, as there has, in fact, been no official word that Finland is hosting what would have been Russia's event.

 

[On My Own]

The source for this is Match TV, which is owned by Gazprom Media. I think they are just stirring the post, as there has, in fact, been no official work that Finland is hosting what would have been Russia's event.

So does it mean they're also perhaps exaggerating a bit about the sixth event? Hersh reported that it wasn't chosen and the selection is delayed, but he isn't being alarmist about it.

 

[Karen-W]

So does it mean they're also perhaps exaggerating a bit about the sixth event? Hersh reported that it wasn't chosen and the selection is delayed, but he isn't being alarmist about it.

Absolutely. Anything to make the ISU look like they can't survive without Russia.

 

[allezfred]

Russia and Belarus are still ISU members so they are technically entitled to send one entry in each category to two of the JGPs if the war ends and sanctions are lifted. It is different from the GPs in that there are no limits on the number of participants.

I would be very surprised to see any Russian or Belarusian skaters selected for the GP events.

 

[Karen-W]

Russia and Belarus are still ISU members so they are technically entitled to send one entry in each category to two of the JGPs if the war ends and sanctions are lifted. It is different from the GPs in that there are no limits on the number of participants.

I would be very surprised to see any Russian or Belarusian skaters selected for the GP events.

We'll see soon enough. The GP document from past seasons states that athletes ranked in the WS and SB Top 24 receive one assignment. I suppose it's possible that the ISU could amend it to state that athletes from member feds that are under sanction are not eligible even if otherwise qualified, but I think it would open the ISU up for another CAS suit. It might be simpler and easier to assign and then remove closer to the event from a legal perspective, but who knows what the ISU has up their sleeve?

The only discipline it would significantly impact would be Women. All the rest, we're talking about no more than 1 athlete per event and withdrawals are fairly common in 2-4 weeks before each competition. They could have a list of intended replacements for the Russian/Belarusian skaters prepared and those skaters could be privately informed of this and make the necessary preparations, then at the 14-day mark, officially be assigned after the others are withdrawn.

 

[jiejie]

Well, I think we all know that the chances of the measures being lifted in the next 4-5 months are extremely low. But, I suppose the question is - how is the message for GP assignments any different than whatever message is sent by allocating to RUS & BLR the standard JGP assignments that every ISU member is eligible to receive?

So, we might have a bit of insight into how the ISU plans to allocate GP assignments to the Russian and Belarusian skaters who are currently ranked in the WS and SB Top 24 if we go off of what they did for the JGP allocations. They've listed RUS and BLR as eligible for 1 entry in 2 events, just like any other ISU member, subject to the lifting of the protective measures in Communication 2469.

I'm wondering if they're going to tentatively assign the Russians and Belarusians who are eligible for ONE and reassign those spots if the measures aren't lifted within 14 days of each event.

If that's the case then the following skaters would receive ONE assignment:

Men (6) - Evgeni Semenenko (WS11/SB11), Mark Kondratiuk (WS15/SB5), Mikhail Kolyada (WS16/SB12), Andrei Mozalev (WS18/SB19), Petr Gumennik (SB22), Makar Ignatov (SB23)

Women (12) - Anna Shcherbakova (WS1/SB2), Alexandra Trusova (WS4/SB3), Kamila Valieva (WS5/SB1), Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (WS9/SB5), Maiia Khromykh (WS17/SB7), Viktoria Safonova (WS22), Alena Kostornaia (SB8), Daria Usacheva (SB12), Sofia Muravieva (SB17), Adelia Petrosian (SB18), Anastasia Zinina (SB23)

Pairs (6-7 teams)- Tarasova/Morozov (WS1/SB3), Mishina/Galliamov (WS2/SB2), Boikova/Kozlovskii (WS6/SB4), Pavliuchenko/Khodykin (SB7), Chikmareva/Ianchenkov (SB20) - are they still together?, Khabibullina/Knyazhuk (SB21), Mukhortova/Evgenyev (SB24)

Dance (4) - Sinitsina/Katsalapov (WS1/SB3), Stepanova/Bukin (WS8/SB5), Davis/Smolkin (WS17/SB9), Khudaiberdieva/Bazin (SB19)

Well, I think we all know that the chances of the measures being lifted in the next 4-5 months are extremely low. But, I suppose the question is - how is the message for GP assignments any different than whatever message is sent by allocating to RUS & BLR the standard JGP assignments that every ISU member is eligible to receive?

I don't agree with this assessment. Assignment methodologies for the GP and JGP are fundamentally different. The JGP events are assigned to federations, not individual skaters, do not have fixed limits on number of competitors, and federations pay travel/participation expenses for their own competitors. Assignment of any entries to Russia and Belarus does not interfere with the entries of any other federation. Even last-minute withdrawals of JGP competitors has no consequence to the decisions of other federations or their competitors.

On the other hand, the GP is skater-specific, has fixed limits of participation, and hosts pay most expenses for competitors. Most GP competitors need to pre-plan their autumn training and competition schedule (GP and other) around some level of certainty. So do the host federations. Assignment of Russian/Belarussian skaters right now, when sanctions are in place, would affect other federations' competitors and all GP hosts. With no end to the war/sanctions in sight, I doubt if the ISU will assign currently ineligible skaters to competitions when it would inject so much uncertainty and potential chaos if they had to be withdrawn. (which is likely) That's just an unnecessary burden on everybody, and the risk of the ISU ending up with last minute event fields that might go unfilled at embarassing levels, would be very high if they took this approach.

Other than throwing a bone of courtesy to Russia/Belarus by giving them tentative assignments, what's in it for the ISU? Looks to me like more downsides than upsides. I don't think Russia has much of a legal argument with the CAS or anybody else, though they are trying. After all, the CAS ended up making a ruling on Valieva at the Olympics, in Russia's favor. However, if I was the ISU, I'd still take on this fight.

There's also the issue of the host countries potentially refusing to issue visas to (or rescinding existing visas of) Russian/Belarus participants. That is not under ISU control and no appeal to any organization will supersede the decisions of sovereign host countries.

 

[hoptoad]

The GP is much more like Worlds than like JGP. Skaters from Russia and Belarus who would otherwise have been eligible under ISU rules were not permitted to compete at Worlds this spring. There's no reason they should be invited to GP events. End of story.

 

[skatfan]

Perhaps they could expand the field for 5 GP events (say, upping singles entries to 15) if a sixth GP can't be sited.

That’s probably not possible given the need to have certain sizes of flights and practice groups. The schedules for GPs is very tight. Unfortunate that the 6th one may not happen.

 

[barbk]

That’s probably not possible given the need to have certain sizes of flights and practice groups. The schedules for GPs is very tight. Unfortunate that the 6th one may not happen.

I think the math could work. At Worlds, practices begin at 7am. They get through 3 groups (of 6 singles skaters) in just under 2 hours with an ice make after the second group. 3 groups of 5 skaters should be a little less time. 5 skater groups are acceptable under ISU rules for singles, right? Pairs gets 2 flights of 4 teams (they don't particularly need extra slots). Dance gets 2 flights of 5 couples each. (If it works, 3 groups of 4 would be even better.) They could get through 15 men, 15 women, 8 pairs and 10 dance couples rather handily if they started practices at 7. Move the officials' dinner and judges' meeting to Thursday, and you open up more time for competition on Friday.

 

[skatfan]

I think the math could work. At Worlds, practices begin at 7am. They get through 3 groups (of 6 singles skaters) in just under 2 hours with an ice make after the second group. 3 groups of 5 skaters should be a little less time. 5 skater groups are acceptable under ISU rules for singles, right? Pairs gets 2 flights of 4 teams (they don't particularly need extra slots). Dance gets 2 flights of 5 couples each. (If it works, 3 groups of 4 would be even better.) They could get through 15 men, 15 women, 8 pairs and 10 dance couples rather handily if they started practices at 7. Move the officials' dinner and judges' meeting to Thursday, and you open up more time for competition on Friday.

Singles practices are for 6 skaters in two flights at the GP events, a total of 12. Adding just one skater means there would then need to be three groups, each of which needs the mandatory warm-up minutes at the beginning, so it's not just adding in 2-4 minutes for the one skater. Same for the competition for singles - an additional flight means the introductions on the ice plus an additional warm-up and getting folks off the ice, etc. And it messes up the ice makes which seem to be done after two flights - you'd need an additional icemake for the singles. Don't think it's gonna happen.

 

[Dobre]

Guess we will find out what's really going to happen in a week. (The one thing that looks fairly certain is that my early simulation, which was just done with the purpose of determining how far down it might be plausible to go in the ice dance ranks, probably will not be what happens.

----

Because my brain is meandering today, technically could the ISU invite all the Russians & Belarussians and only the Russians & Belarussians to the same TBA event? Typically no more than 3 athletes from a single team can attend & typically the ISU tries to fill the fields. However, some of the fields during covid went mostly empty and in some cases athletes from only one country attended. And technically events have been cancelled. Not a great precedent to set, for sure; and the fields with more than 3 athletes from the same country per discipline didn't happen while WS points were on the line. But this did happen. And I suppose putting all the Russians and Belarussians in a TBA event could dot some i's and cross some t's without the risk of mass last minute replacements having to be recruited. (Something we know often doesn't happen and, likewise, often only benefits athletes who don't need a last minute plane ticket.

 

[Karen-W]

That's an interesting idea @Dobre, but the only discipline that could fill a whole TBA GP event with Russians and Belarusians would be Women (there are 12 in the WS & SB Top 24 lists); Pairs would be a pretty full GP with 6-7 Russian teams; but Men and Dance would only fill 1/2 a field (6 & 4 respectively).

It will be interesting to see what happens next week!

 

[Dobre]

That's an interesting idea @Dobre, but the only discipline that could fill a whole TBA GP event with Russians and Belarusians would be Women (there are 12 in the WS & SB Top 24 lists); Pairs would be a pretty full GP with 6-7 Russian teams; but Men and Dance would only fill 1/2 a field (6 & 4 respectively).

Yes, but GP disciplines during covid weren't full. There were only 3 dance teams signed up for NHK and zero pairs, I think. And very few for China in either dance or pairs. You could also TBA the whole rest of the field, and if a host country actually picked up the event, you could fill the remaining berths off the replacement list.

I don't think this will happen. I'm just saying, there is precedent.

 

[MacMadame]

You would think that the ISU would have gone through all their rules about things like assignments and introduced amendments were necessary to avoid looking like they were kowtowing to Russia and/or to avoid having their premier series dissolve into chaos.

 

[Alilou]

You would think that the ISU would have gone through all their rules about things like assignments and introduced amendments were necessary to avoid looking like they were kowtowing to Russia and/or to avoid having their premier series dissolve into chaos.

You would think. But this is the ISU we're talking about.

 

[leilaofpaper]

I guess the real question is does the ISU have to allow for the possibility (however unlikely) that the war will end soon?

And how exactly does Russia’s ban work? Is it just over if Russian troops leave Ukraine? Is there a holdover period? And what happens if god forbid the Russians win?

 

[Karen-W]

I guess the real question is does the ISU have to allow for the possibility (however unlikely) that the war will end soon?

And how exactly does Russia’s ban work? Is it just over if Russian troops leave Ukraine? Is there a holdover period? And what happens if god forbid the Russians win?

Well, once protective measures are lifted, one would assume that the Russian & Belarusian feds will be allowed to enter skaters in competitions for which the entry deadline has not yet passed. For the JGPs - entries are due 4 weeks prior to the start of the event. I suppose, in theory, they could allow skaters to compete as soon as possible, provided they can get visas to the different countries hosting competitions.

Russia & Belarus are really going to be screwed if the ban isn't lifted by the last week of October, because they'll miss out on the entire JGP and most of the Challengers. Their skaters at the top of the WS Top 24 will most likely be sent to Euros and Worlds, so they'll earn enough points to stay ranked, but the rest probably won't have a chance to compete except at senior Bs and maybe Golden Spin (I can't see Kazakhstan, Austria or Poland going out of their way to re-open their Challenger deadlines to accommodate Russian/Belarusian skaters) , which means they won't earn enough points to stay in the WS Top 24 nor will they be able to get onto the SB Top 24, which means they won't be eligible for GP assignments the following season.

Also - Russia's not going to win.