2021-22 ISU Grand Prix assignments announced

Amy L

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6,721
Didn't Pepeleva/Pleshkov say they had one of the US-approved vaccines? I forgot which one.

I thought I read here somewhere that some of the Russian skaters were contemplating getting vaccines while they were in the US for some of their events? P/P could have been some that were already mentioned. Tar/Mor, Dav/Smo and Trusova were the other Russians that did US events recently.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Active Member
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102
A Russian skater told me he was tempted to get a Pfizzer "booster", but that the backlash would be huge. I want to see Russian skaters get a fair opportunity to compete, but the funding and political pressure is putting them in an impossible position. Mixing Chinese/Russian vaccines with Pfizzer/Moderna has been done safely and effectively.
Always warms the heart to know their athletes are being used as political pawns :rolleyes:
 

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
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1,216
A Russian skater told me he was tempted to get a Pfizzer "booster", but that the backlash would be huge. I want to see Russian skaters get a fair opportunity to compete, but the funding and political pressure is putting them in an impossible position. Mixing Chinese/Russian vaccines with Pfizzer/Moderna has been done safely and effectively.
Backlash from whom? Fellow athletes? The government? From what I have read, most Russians are not entirely antivax, they just don't trust one that was developed by their government so quickly. Why would they care if someone who has the opportunity to get a different vaccine does so? Especially if it might provide them the only possible opportunity to compete in certain countries?
 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
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3,261
Sputnik is a good vaccine, its even used in some European Countries

why should Russia accept western made vaccines when there's aren't even accepted ?
The WHO has visited for the accreditation, there is progress maybe by October or November.
Russia has said it will accept mutual recognition of vaccines.

Kinda strange though its taking time, The Sinovac was approved earliest despite is low effectivity.
 

love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
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3,261
I thought I read here somewhere that some of the Russian skaters were contemplating getting vaccines while they were in the US for some of their events? P/P could have been some that were already mentioned. Tar/Mor, Dav/Smo and Trusova were the other Russians that did US events recently.
Trusova doesnt want to get the jab, not everyone wants to get those.
Many russian skaters have had ********* like T/M, M/G, Kostornaia, Shcherbakova, S/K.

So they might prefer to get the natural immunity.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,152
Sputnik is a good vaccine, its even used in some European Countries

why should Russia accept western made vaccines when there's aren't even accepted ?
The WHO has visited for the accreditation, there is progress maybe by October or November.
Russia has said it will accept mutual recognition of vaccines.

Kinda strange though its taking time, The Sinovac was approved earliest despite is low effectivity.
This is not a political issue where one country does another a favour by approving it's vaccine of choice. It's a question of whether the vaccines in question have met the standards that a country has set for any medication or medical procedure. In most cases that involves the company applying for such an approval. Do we know that the Sputnik manufacturer has submitted such application in France? WHO approval is great for countries that don't have the infrastructure to evaluate these things on their own, but the approval of Sinovac doesn't impact it's use anywhere unless the government of that country approves it's use.
 

love_skate2011

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3,261
This is not a political issue where one country does another a favour by approving it's vaccine of choice. It's a question of whether the vaccines in question have met the standards that a country has set for any medication or medical procedure. In most cases that involves the company applying for such an approval. Do we know that the Sputnik manufacturer has submitted such application in France? WHO approval is great for countries that don't have the infrastructure to evaluate these things on their own, but the approval of Sinovac doesn't impact it's use anywhere unless the government of that country approves it's use.
I cant answer that but isnt WHO a global organization, so if it gets approved then that means its accredited by a global health council.
WHO then dealing with specific countries, you think it should be the other way around ? but it was submitted to the EU not sure if it will be dealt specifically per country.

Plenty of studies have since been done on Sputnik, but you know there is some politics involved in its slow process.

Will just have to wait if amendments will be done in GP for qualifiying in the finals like the juniors.
 

PRlady

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37,148
I think my 66 year old husband will get a booster while in Israel, even though he got two Moderna shots here, not Pfizer. In some ways it's such a free-for-all but the problem with Russia is that they have been the opposite of transparent about their data. I surely wouldn't object to a skater getting a booster outside Russia but I don't make the rules.

ETA: ALL the guidance is that people who have had the crud should get vaccinated, that "natural immunity" is less than a vaccine provides and wears off. Again, Russia has not been forthcoming about the effectiveness of its vaccine, no-one trusts the absurdly low number of cases reported. And WHO is not the body that approves vaccines anyway.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,152
I cant answer that but isnt WHO a global organization, so if it gets approved then that means its accredited by a global health council.
WHO then dealing with specific countries, you think it should be the other way around ? but it was submitted to the EU not sure if it will be dealt specifically per country.

Plenty of studies have since been done on Sputnik, but you know there is some politics involved in its slow process.

Will just have to wait if amendments will be done in GP for qualifiying in the finals like the juniors.
WHO approval doesn't mean that any specific country has to accept the vaccine, and the French are known to be particular about things - not always a bad thing. Do we know of Russian athletes in other sports that have been able to compete in France. I know that Russian tennis players have been competing in France & will again this fall, and most tennis players are not vaccinated at all.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Active Member
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102
why should Russia accept western made vaccines when there's aren't even accepted ?
I'm sorry, this is so confusing. Are you saying Russia shouldn't accept "Western" vaccines as a political trade-off because theirs aren't being accepted - while also complaining about the politics that in your mind has led to Russian vaccines not being accepted even though Sputnik has (purportedly) been proved scientifically effective?
So they might prefer to get the natural immunity.

They are free to "prefer" whichever immunity they desire - much like the "Western" (and "Eastern") countries are free to "prefer" whichever immunity they desire. Surely there shouldn't be a complaint, then, if these "preferences" clash?
 

love_skate2011

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3,261
WHO approval doesn't mean that any specific country has to accept the vaccine, and the French are known to be particular about things - not always a bad thing. Do we know of Russian athletes in other sports that have been able to compete in France. I know that Russian tennis players have been competing in France & will again this fall, and most tennis players are not vaccinated at all.
aren't most athletes against vaccination ?

Djokovic didn't get even after *********
same with Medvedev
 

barbarafan

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4,905
I think my 66 year old husband will get a booster while in Israel, even though he got two Moderna shots here, not Pfizer. In some ways it's such a free-for-all but the problem with Russia is that they have been the opposite of transparent about their data. I surely wouldn't object to a skater getting a booster outside Russia but I don't make the rules.

ETA: ALL the guidance is that people who have had the crud should get vaccinated, that "natural immunity" is less than a vaccine provides and wears off. Again, Russia has not been forthcoming about the effectiveness of its vaccine, no-one trusts the absurdly low number of cases reported. And WHO is not the body that approves vaccines anyway.
I was hospitalized in March for an autoimmune disease. I was very ill. I checked with the specialist who gave me my treatments who consulted with my neurologist when I asked if I could get vaccinated. They consulted and said....a bit of risk to get vaccinated but better than getting *********....(I'd be a goner) so as long as I got Pfizer or Moderna I should be fine....told me not to take the astro zenica which was available at the time as well....My sister is younger and lives out west and she had to take the astro zenica there but a while ago she was told to take a 3rd vaccine.....this time Pfizer.
 

kirkbiggestfan

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Backlash from whom? Fellow athletes? The government? From what I have read, most Russians are not entirely antivax, they just don't trust one that was developed by their government so quickly. Why would they care if someone who has the opportunity to get a different vaccine does so? Especially if it might provide them the only possible opportunity to compete in certain countries?
Imagine if Zahorski/Guerreiro gets vaccinated in Vegas and then were the only Russians attending the GP in France (I did not speak to them by the way) The government-funded federation would not treat them the same to say the least. Their Olympic qualifications chances would be over.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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Imagine if Zahorski/Guerreiro gets vaccinated in Vegas and then were the only Russians attending the GP in France (I did not speak to them by the way) The government-funded federation would not treat them the same to say the least. Their Olympic qualifications chances would be over.
I am not sure about the last sentence. If they skate great, I don't see their Fed not sending them to the Olympics.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,152
I am not sure about the last sentence. If they skate great, I don't see their Fed not sending them to the Olympics.
It's Ice Dance, and more specifically Russian Ice Dance, so how you skate only matters to a point. Two of the other teams that will be aiming for that 3rd spot are well connected to prominent Russian coaches who have considerable influence in the Russian skating federation to say the least.
 

Cherub721

YEAH!
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17,307
Imagine if Zahorski/Guerreiro gets vaccinated in Vegas and then were the only Russians attending the GP in France (I did not speak to them by the way) The government-funded federation would not treat them the same to say the least. Their Olympic qualifications chances would be over.

I wouldn't be surprised if the federation in that case would withdraw the entire Russian team out of fairness to the others who haven't had the chance to travel abroad and do that, and then try to get them all reassigned somewhere. Blackballing sounds very extreme.

Has this mystery skater actually been threatened or is this all speculation? Sylvia posted here that Nina Mozer announced that her pair had the J&J vaccine so there doesn't seem to be any stigma like you are describing.

 
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wickedwitch

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15,166
The problem with the immunity that comes from having ** wears off after a time, and it doesn't protect against new variants of the ***.
This isn't entirely true. Natural immunity offers some protection, due to the genetic similarity (but not as much as the vaccine, AFAIK).
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
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2,788
Imagine if Zahorski/Guerreiro gets vaccinated in Vegas and then were the only Russians attending the GP in France (I did not speak to them by the way) The government-funded federation would not treat them the same to say the least. Their Olympic qualifications chances would be over.
Vegas is less than 4 weeks before the start of the French GP.
That would mean getting the J&J jab the day before the Vegas GP starts to be fully vaccinated for the French GP.
Not sure any skater would want to try to do a comp having just had the C19 vaccine!
 

Vagabond

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19,670
Imagine if Zahorski/Guerreiro gets vaccinated in Vegas and then were the only Russians attending the GP in France (I did not speak to them by the way) The government-funded federation would not treat them the same to say the least. Their Olympic qualifications chances would be over.
We have a saying here in the United States: "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas." 🤫
 

love_skate2011

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3,261
I'm not sure about most - I think it varies by sport & what requirements for vaccinations have been imposed by various leagues.

Imagine if Zahorski/Guerreiro gets vaccinated in Vegas and then were the only Russians attending the GP in France (I did not speak to them by the way) The government-funded federation would not treat them the same to say the least. Their Olympic qualifications chances would be over.

It's Ice Dance, and more specifically Russian Ice Dance, so how you skate only matters to a point. Two of the other teams that will be aiming for that 3rd spot are well connected to prominent Russian coaches who have considerable influence in the Russian skating federation to say the least.
Zahorski / Guererio were never guaranteed the 3rd spot, The Nepo team is hot in their heels but with merits from their work.
I wouldnt be surprised if Nepo pass even StepBuk, watch them score near 80+ RD and 120+ in FD.

Poor StepBukin just cant take a break for 3 Olympic Cycle now, They will never be World Medalists
I'll go on a limb and say Diana/Gleb will get a medal at Worlds.
 

Bigbird

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1,937
That's a depressing thought.
Well in all fairness Bukin is an okay partner, relatively short and Aleksandra struggles with posture and skating ability. Not to mention their choreo and music choices that have been strange for many seasons. I am more surprised that after so many years of poor technique and posturing and posing they're still within the top 5 in the world. But maybe, just maybe they may just hit the jackpot this season.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,152
Well in all fairness Bukin is an okay partner, relatively short and Aleksandra struggles with posture and skating ability. Not to mention their choreo and music choices that have been strange for many seasons. I am more surprised that after so many years of poor technique and posturing and posing they're still within the top 5 in the world. But maybe, just maybe they may just hit the jackpot this season.
Not that - Diana Davis & Gleb Smolkin winning a World medal.
 

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