2021/2022 Canadian Men: News and Updates

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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8,059
Canadians can breathe now. By like 4 points Sadovsky assured Canada will get second men's spot at the Olympics. I hope he will have to skate better the rest of the season, up to and including nationals, to get one of the spots though....

I hope Welsey Chiu gets a senior international to get the TES minimums because based on what we've seen so far this season he could make the Olympic team.
 

angi

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383
I adore Roman and I'm really glad that Canada got that second spot but he needs to send flowers to those judges because if I'm being honest that spot should have probably gone to TUR considering what he put on the ice today.
 

Colonel Green

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10,140
I adore Roman and I'm really glad that Canada got that second spot but he needs to send flowers to those judges because if I'm being honest that spot should have probably gone to TUR considering what he put on the ice today.
The Turks will probably get Sweden's spot, at least.

But yeah, overall Roman put in a very poor showing at this event, and certainly did nothing to make a case to send him to the Olympics. Though it's not like any of the other seniors have either, as yet.
 

screech

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6,511
The Turks will probably get Sweden's spot, at least.

But yeah, overall Roman put in a very poor showing at this event, and certainly did nothing to make a case to send him to the Olympics. Though it's not like any of the other seniors have either, as yet.
So incredibly lucky for him that one of the people who placed above him isn't competing for an Olympic spot.
Unless he medals at both grand prix, and/or handily wins Canadians, I don't foresee Skate Canada sending him over Keegan and Nam.
Though to be fair to Roman, this was the most high-pressure event of his career so far, with an Olympics spot depending solely on him.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,152
So incredibly lucky for him that one of the people who placed above him isn't competing for an Olympic spot.
Unless he medals at both grand prix, and/or handily wins Canadians, I don't foresee Skate Canada sending him over Keegan and Nam.
Though to be fair to Roman, this was the most high-pressure event of his career so far, with an Olympics spot depending solely on him.
What's going on with Nam though. Is he injured? I don't think the skate here is going to affect the Olympic selection, and if Sadovsky can deliver more of the technical content by Canadians he will be the strong favourite to go to the Olympics ahead of Nguyen. Roman's basics, and non-jump elements are so superior to Nam's, and I think Skate Canada wants to get him to the Olympics.
 

puglover

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2,286
Maybe I just adore Roman's skating and I admit to not watching everyone but he is one of the few remaining skaters that makes me really feel something. I think Keegan is pretty much for sure and Nam is a huge unknown so we will have to see how it plays out. When is Ontario Sectionals when Stephen is supposed to be competing? It seems odd we hear so little about him.
 

screech

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6,511
I much prefer Roman's skating to Nam's, but Nam is generally the more consistent of the two men. Though it's incredibly early in the season, Roman didn't invoke much confidence here, in a high-pressure situation, so I think he will have to prove himself to Skate Canada. Conversely, Nam and Keegan are entering the GP fresh, without having barely met expectations at a high stakes event. Unless he completely bombs this season, Keegan is pretty much a guarantee for the team, and if Nam does his usual decent but not too memorable thing, I see them choosing him over an up and down unknown entity in Roman.

With regards to Stephen Gogolev, the last thing mentioned on his Wikipedia is from last season "On October 1 he was assigned to compete at 2020 Skate America, but he withdrew on October 7 due to injury. Gogolev did not compete this season as he faced issues related to a growth cycle."
I hope his growth has settled and he's injury free. And that we're able to see him compete this year.
 

dramagrrl

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1,984
I am one of the seeming few who much prefers watching Nam to Roman, and was anxiously hoping Roman would eek out the extra spot so Nam will at least have a chance of going to the Olympics. I need Keegan/Nam bromance adventures at the Olys and so I am crossing all my fingers for Nam.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
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14,609
Sadovski & Orzel almost tied (total points) in their respective challengers this month - Orzel 207.31 and Sadovski 207. 62.
 

Seerek

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5,456
10 points behind Wesley (w/1 less element in the Junior FS) isn't encouraging, but I thought Shin Amano did call Roman's jumps more harshly compared to the others, imo.
 

Colonel Green

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10,140
Unless he medals at both grand prix, and/or handily wins Canadians, I don't foresee Skate Canada sending him over Keegan and Nam.
Though to be fair to Roman, this was the most high-pressure event of his career so far, with an Olympics spot depending solely on him.
What's going on with Nam though. Is he injured? I don't think the skate here is going to affect the Olympic selection, and if Sadovsky can deliver more of the technical content by Canadians he will be the strong favourite to go to the Olympics ahead of Nguyen. Roman's basics, and non-jump elements are so superior to Nam's, and I think Skate Canada wants to get him to the Olympics.
I don't think Skate Canada has any special investment in Sadovsky that they "want" to send him. He's too unreliable; he's historically been more of a problem they have to deal with when parceling out assignments.

But since Nam hasn't been seen yet and we don't know how he'll do this fall either, I wouldn't say he's favoured over Roman either as yet.

Keegan is going, the other spot is probably just going to go to whoever wins the silver medal at nationals.
 

RoseRed

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1,886
So incredibly lucky for him that one of the people who placed above him isn't competing for an Olympic spot.
Unless he medals at both grand prix, and/or handily wins Canadians, I don't foresee Skate Canada sending him over Keegan and Nam.
Though to be fair to Roman, this was the most high-pressure event of his career so far, with an Olympics spot depending solely on him.
At this point, if he beats Nam at Nationals, he should go. Nam has done nothing as of now to override Nationals results. Reminder that his last event was WTT, where he scored less than 200 points total. And where Roman beat him by almost 25 points. And Nam hasn't competed at all yet this season, and currently doesn't have a Challenger assignment. Unless one of them has a significantly stronger fall season than the other, then go by Nationals.

And to be clear, I'm just comparing Nam and Roman here. Someone else like Conrad could also get in there potentially.
 

mackiecat

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1,521
Roman has significantly outscored Conrad in the Ontario Comps this year. Roman will not have any expectations for Olympics so he wont be in such a high stress event.
 

Debrah

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2,115
If I am really honest, I want Nguyen on the Olympic team with Messing as a bro tag team motivating each other to do their very best, provided of course that Nam is healthy and ready. Yes, very true Roman is a truly beautiful and uber-talented skater and yes he has 2vwonderful programs this season, but I worry that nerves continue to plague him and seriously undermine his jumps. Certainly if Roman ever manages to go clean, he could easily medal on the GP perhaps has the talent to even outpoint Messing this season, but considering what he just put out at this all-important NEB comp attempting to secure a 2nd male Oly spot for Canada and earning - 207.62, well under his PB of 247.50, so even another GP medal, might be a big ask, he may need the next full cycle to gain enough competitive consistency before shining on Oly ice.

Even USA's brilliant Jason Brown, the new prince of PCS will not make it to the international podium without all the big boy 4 tricks and combinations the way skaters are judged these days. As long as jumps/elements are done, even the emptiest programs will likely out-score the artists, even those with great basic skill sets. Jeepers, even wee teen girls are seemingly out jumping/scoring 90% of sr international men these days. It is a sad state of affairs, that ladies' side of skating both jr and sr seemingly have better competitive nerves and are far more consistent in competition than most men who are wildly erratic even from sp to fs, let alone from event to event. My point now is that Nam is still likely the better bet, being more consistent, and the more experienced international competitor (beyond Messing), under pressure, than the rest of our present crop of top Cdn men. History has shown when Nam is motivated and knows he's being supported by SC he has risen to the occasion since taking on the responsibility for his own skating; his PB score of 262.77 is also well beyond Roman's. We will have to see how they all fare over the GP events and at nationals. At this early stage the only ones really trying to improve overall scores and impress with their skating skills have been our CDN Juniors who have earned medals. Otherwise, our SR skaters are off to a slow and rather bumpy, 21/22, start.

While it IS very EARLY in this marathon of a season, even with that unspoken caveat where all the big feds tend to underperform till the very top contenders will rally enough to make the GPF. The entire Sr Canadian skating team, as a whole, out of the gate are all very rusty, performing well below even the normal preseason challenger curve right now, let alone improving scores for the Oly season. The skaters should be trying to prove themselves worthy internationally on the GP circuit as our country's top contenders and skate well enough to podium by Nationals, test their mettle at 4CC, but ultimately peak at OLY Games or at Worlds if there are any retirements.

Yes, I do realize everyone on our national teams JR and SR are likely protecting themselves from getting injured, or sick before their GPF events, Nationals, 4CC, and the Oly Games, and some finally on to Worlds. However, they all still have to prove that they should be considered top contenders and that message to the judges and public happens first and foremost on the upcoming GP circuits! Frankly, IMO, no one seems ready to make the top 6 let alone win a medal, beyond G&P, and even they need to significantly up their game and do some program tweaking before their GP events.

I really hope all the top Canadian contenders all do another challenger event, or more small comps before SC and/or nationals, to get a better idea of where they all stand going into this all-important season and the best of our best are able to punch their tickets to the big O show. Although I do wonder if O games in China will even happen on schedule; given the ********* variants and ragged international politics. No matter how cynical some of us are, ice is still slippery last I checked, so no one, no matter how favored or decorated in the past seasons are guaranteed an OLY spot or a Medal, thus everyone who is working their hardest to do their very best to shine brighter than they ever did before, has a shot to achieve their dreams for this season. Go Canada! Time for everybody skating for Canada to put up, or shut up!
 

Colonel Green

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10,140
While it IS very EARLY in this marathon of a season, even with that unspoken caveat where all the big feds tend to underperform till the very top contenders will rally enough to make the GPF. The entire Sr Canadian skating team, as a whole, out of the gate are all very rusty, performing well below even the normal preseason challenger curve right now, let alone improving scores for the Oly season.
I don't think anybody notable that we've seen looks noticeably different from where they typically are at the start of the season (or can be at any point).
Frankly, IMO, no one seems ready to make the top 6 let alone win a medal, beyond G&P, and even they need to significantly up their game and do some program tweaking before their GP events.
Of the three Canadian skaters/teams who are plausible candidates to finish in the top 6 at the Olympics, Gilles & Poirier are the only ones we've seen yet, and they had everything in good order.. Keegan and KMT & Michael we won't get to evaluate until Finlandia.
 

puglover

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2,286
Keegan, Roman and Nam each have had their own amazing journeys and I only wish all three could get this trip to the Olympics. Keegan really stepped it up for Canada after Patrick retired and he is such a team player. Nam and Roman, both were young talents and stars and both know what it is to watch that star fade and suffer many defeats and still keep working for your dream. I would be proud for any combination to go and know I will cry a few tears for the one who is left behind.
 

greenapple

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965
I adore Roman and I'm really glad that Canada got that second spot but he needs to send flowers to those judges because if I'm being honest that spot should have probably gone to TUR considering what he put on the ice today.
So on the money! The Turkish guy was so ripped off today. I felt so bad for him. He looked so disappointed when his scores were announced - with good reason!
 

clairecloutier

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12,024
Neither of the Turkish guys were that good. They both had numerous mistakes on the jumps, and their non-jumps elements, and basic skating, and presentation weren't good.


The difference between Roman’s overall quality of skating vs. the guys before him was enormous and immediately noticeable. The Turkish guys had some jumps but they were hardly consistent themselves and nothing else they did was really of any interest. I thought the judges did right by the scoring.
 

skylark

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292
Unless he medals at both grand prix, and/or handily wins Canadians, I don't foresee Skate Canada sending him over Keegan and Nam.
Though to be fair to Roman, this was the most high-pressure event of his career so far, with an Olympics spot depending solely on him.

But he did handily win Canadians, by 17 points, in 2019-20 season, and that wasn't enough. I know, I know, he bombed at 4CC, but still. Winning Nationals by that much ...

My point now is that Nam is still likely the better bet, being more consistent, and the more experienced international competitor (beyond Messing), under pressure, than the rest of our present crop of top Cdn men. History has shown when Nam is motivated and knows he's being supported by SC he has risen to the occasion since taking on the responsibility for his own skating;

Perhaps Roman is also, like Nam, one of the skaters who rises to the occasion when he knows he's being supported by SC. But how would we know, when he hasn't had that blessing.

Someone in another art/skill/discipline said that it's often the most talented who lack confidence and need encouragement.
 

puglover

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2,286
Just as Roman was learning the big jumps (3A and quad) he grew so much. He is very tall for a single skater. As I understand it, that makes it much harder for him to save those jumps that are slightly off axis. I am sure even knowing that would play with your confidence. But Nam has issues as well, so hopefully SC will make the right choice. I, personally, don't think Nam should go over Roman if the situation is like it was for the last worlds, unless Nam is significantly improved. I think Keegan is in, and baring injury, will go. Best of luck to all of them - I am sure the training for this last big stretch has been tough.
 

shutterbug

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1,988
I think we need to keep the lack of live competitive opportunities in mind when assessing Roman's Nebelhorn performance. Of course this has been tough on all skaters, but even more so for those with consistency issues who really need regular desensitization to the stressors of a competitive environment. IIRC, even all of the virtual events he participated in were filmed at his home rink.

Roman's post competition interview:
‘’I didn’t think it would nearly as hard as what it was,’’ he said. ‘’I was training for this competition and I felt confident but once I stepped on the ice it hit really differently. I’m glad I got that Olympic spot and it’s out of the way.’’

In terms of confidence, yes the support of your federation is a wonderful thing, but ultimately Roman has to develop the confidence in himself to get through adversity without external validation. This was probably one of the toughest competitions of his life, but he survived and met his goal. He can now take that experience forward into his next event knowing that what doesn't kill you does indeed make you stronger. :lol:
 

kalamalka

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647
I don't think it really matters which 2 skaters get the Olympic spots, except that we need someone to deliver for the team event. None of the Canadian men on past performance is in the individual medal mix, and it's only Worlds where placements count for future slots.
 

skylark

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292
In terms of confidence, yes the support of your federation is a wonderful thing, but ultimately Roman has to develop the confidence in himself to get through adversity without external validation. This was probably one of the toughest competitions of his life, but he survived and met his goal. He can now take that experience forward into his next event knowing that what doesn't kill you does indeed make you stronger. :lol:

Good post. When I said it might be a confidence booster if Roman had a solid belief that he has the support of SC, I referred to Debrah's post where she said, in fact, Nam had that support; and it was Debrah's idea that it helped Nam. But I also had the feeling even before that post, that the past 2 years of Roman's experience with SC couldn't have helped much.

I like your reasoning of how this competition probably (and for me, hopefully ❤️) will have advanced Roman's confidence going forward.
 
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screech

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6,511
I agree that more confidence in Roman would help. However, SC did choose to send him to Nebelhorn instead of the generally more dependable Nam. They did send him to 4CC in 2020 with the chance of getting the Worlds spot. They did ask him to send videos with the possibility of being sent to Worlds this year... IMO they're not NOT showing confidence in him, but also are not sending him to events outright. The lone high-pressure Nebelhorn spot was a huge show of trust and confidence in him. But he didn't solidify that confidence with his performance. Which is why I think he has more pressure on him this GP circuit and Canadians than the more proven Nam and Keegan do.

I mean, if Nam wins Canadians, Roman comes second, Keegan third... Roman will not be going to the Olympics. But if Nam and Keegan place first/second in any order, they're both going.
If Keegan wins, Roman is second, Nam third... I think the 'body of work' for this whole season is going to be what determines that second spot.
 

RoseRed

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1,886
I agree that more confidence in Roman would help. However, SC did choose to send him to Nebelhorn instead of the generally more dependable Nam. They did send him to 4CC in 2020 with the chance of getting the Worlds spot. They did ask him to send videos with the possibility of being sent to Worlds this year... IMO they're not NOT showing confidence in him, but also are not sending him to events outright. The lone high-pressure Nebelhorn spot was a huge show of trust and confidence in him. But he didn't solidify that confidence with his performance. Which is why I think he has more pressure on him this GP circuit and Canadians than the more proven Nam and Keegan do.

I mean, if Nam wins Canadians, Roman comes second, Keegan third... Roman will not be going to the Olympics. But if Nam and Keegan place first/second in any order, they're both going.
If Keegan wins, Roman is second, Nam third... I think the 'body of work' for this whole season is going to be what determines that second spot.
On the other hand, Nam skated worse than Roman at WTT, and didn't compete in the summer at all. Whereas Roman did his SP for the Skate Ontario July performance opportunity, and both programs for the August one. Which suggests that either SC had already picked Roman for that event, based on Challenge and WTT, so Nam didn't bother with summer comps, or that Nam wasn't able/ready to compete, perhaps due to some kind of injury.

Nam also WD from Autumn Classic, and at this point won't have competed at all before Skate America. Which definitely makes me wonder about an injury or something.
 

puglover

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2,286
This could possibly develop into a situation where SC really needs to show it's worth. They hold the hopes and dreams of three fine young men in their hands. I would assume they all have stayed in and continued to train and work hard with competing in this Olympics the ultimate goal. Canada is not expecting a medal (never say never) in men's so aside from possibly the team event, hardware is not on the line. Maybe the skaters will make it easy on them and the choices will be obvious. As hard as that would be to take, they know when they don't deliver. If it comes down to a judgement call, there should be a sense it is justifiable and not based on politics or whatever.
 

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