2021/2022 Canadian Ladies: News and Updates

hoptoad

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1,686
Regardless how you feel about Maddie vs Kaiya, they need to get Kaiya to a senior international just in case Maddie is injured if they want a shot at a team medal.
ITA, she may need senior mins this year. I like them both and hope they keep pushing each other.
 

Colonel Green

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10,724
Regardless how you feel about Maddie vs Kaiya, they need to get Kaiya to a senior international just in case Maddie is injured if they want a shot at a team medal.
Agreed. It’d be very short-sighted to not have Kaiya as a backup possibility at least.
That may not be in their hands, judging by the earlier post in this thread:
I would think of Kaiya for next cycle. Love what we saw from her this year. There are some issues behind the scenes (nothing overly tragic, but...). Might just see her at Nationals - maybe Challenge - and call it a season unless some things get resolved. Lots to look forward to from her, though. Maddie needs to get 2 spots so we can get her and Kaiya to world's for the whole next cycle and I'd be good!
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
Messages
8,510
Colonel Green- I went and looked at some of that poster's other recent posts and it is a lot of sadness and negativity about the Canadians. Lots of stuff about "this skater is on a downward trend" and "this and that is very concerning" and "this skater is barely cracking 80 points in the SP and that's a sign of bigger problems." LOTS of doom and gloom. They're trying their best FFS... and I am not sure all this criticism is helpful after a while. Without details of these "behind the scenes issues" and some other confirmation about it, I am going to take it as this poster being a catastrophizer, more than an actual issue we need to worry about.
 

Colonel Green

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10,724
Colonel Green- I went and looked at some of that poster's other recent posts and it is a lot of sadness and negativity about the Canadians. Lots of stuff about "this skater is on a downward trend" and "this and that is very concerning" and "this skater is barely cracking 80 points in the SP and that's a sign of bigger problems." LOTS of doom and gloom. They're trying their best FFS... and I am not sure all this criticism is helpful after a while. Without details of these "behind the scenes issues" and some other confirmation about it, I am going to take it as this poster being a catastrophizer, more than an actual issue we need to worry about.
They have a good track record of behind-the-scenes information. Whether you agree with the performance assessments or not (I've disputed one or two of them), I'd take them as accurate that there's some sort of issue.

I'm just saying, if Kaiya isn't assigned internationally this fall, it's not necessarily because the federation doesn't want to send her.
 

Lara

It's JJ style!
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18,630
Yeah, I’d be more inclined to think there was some other issue if Ruiter doesn’t get an assignment. Skate Canada can see the scores as well as us after all. But hopefully she’s fine and if not, so be it for this quad. The future’s more important than Beijing.
 

wickedwitch

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15,355
Yeah, I’d be more inclined to think there was some other issue if Ruiter doesn’t get an assignment. Skate Canada can see the scores as well as us after all. But hopefully she’s fine and if not, so be it for this quad. The future’s more important than Beijing.
Yes, but SC has a long and storied history of NOT sending out skaters who have merited assignments. I wish I could trust that they would do the best they can for her, but SC has not earned that trust.
 

Colonel Green

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10,724
Yes, but SC has a long and storied history of NOT sending out skaters who have merited assignments. I wish I could trust that they would do the best they can for her, but SC has not earned that trust.
The federation has never been reluctant to send Ruiter anywhere. Indeed, they were very openly talking about her moving up to senior for the Olympic season.
 

barbarafan

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4,952
I liked the fight in Maddie, agreed past women would likely have gone down the slippery slope! Im sure she will fight back in the long. She is still our most promising senior at this stage. Kaiya is a promising Junior.
Very proud of Maddie's long perferformance....her PCS getting nice.
 

honey

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1,535
Very solid skate for Madeline today. I would say she seems to be not skating with the authority and attack that she did at times last year, but the stakes are higher now and it's obviously still early in the season. So good to see her get all her jumps done this weekend though, even if they weren't perfect. She fought for all of them and didn't let any of them go completely. All in all she acquitted herself nicely in a VERY tough field.

I'm sure they're working on this, but more polish would go a long way in terms of the overall picture on the ice. Posture, hands, toes...that's an area I would say Ruiter is ahead of her a bit. Kaiya might look more junior in a lot of ways, but there's something very clean about her skating that sometimes gets away from Madeline.
 

barbarafan

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4,952
Very solid skate for Madeline today. I would say she seems to be not skating with the authority and attack that she did at times last year, but the stakes are higher now and it's obviously still early in the season. So good to see her get all her jumps done this weekend though, even if they weren't perfect. She fought for all of them and didn't let any of them go completely. All in all she acquitted herself nicely in a VERY tough field.

I'm sure they're working on this, but more polish would go a long way in terms of the overall picture on the ice. Posture, hands, toes...that's an area I would say Ruiter is ahead of her a bit. Kaiya might look more junior in a lot of ways, but there's something very clean about her skating that sometimes gets away from Madeline.
maybe she could join one of Lubov's ballet zoom classes. Russian lines go a long way.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico, via Russia - to the World!
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15,252
Ruiter outscored Schizas in her first JGP by 0.30 of a point. Hardly worth mentioning. This was Schizas first event so let's see how she fares at her next before nominating a very junior skater to fill her shoes.
Finlandia wasn’t Schizas’ first event. She was also at Cranberry Cup Int’l in Boston (5th place).
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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68,187
Schizas has only had 2 opportunities for ISU SB/PB scores so far in her career - 2021 Worlds: 68.77 (SP) 117.01 (FS) 185.78 (Total) - and Finlandia Trophy this weekend.

Cranberry Cup was a Senior B so not counted (59.70 / 113.64 / 173.34) but she did get 164 ISU WS points for her 5th place finish.

Unfortunately her 9th place at Finlandia Trophy just missed out on attaining WS points, but she did get a new ISU PB in her FS (125.44) and scored very close (184.73) to her Worlds total... a positive start to her season, IMO! :)
 

Marco

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14,994
No, traditionally Olympic bound skaters from Canada don't go to 4CC.
Thanks.

Then again the race this time for both men and women are tighter than ever and with not enough competition or head-to-head to establish a clear case either way. Except for Keegan's spot, the 1 man's spot between Roman and Nam and the 1 woman's spot between various women will be an exciting fight. I wonder what happens if Nationals results are tight. They sort of used 4CCs to decide the World spot for 2020 didn't they (even if it ultimately became moot).
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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10,021
Thanks.

Then again the race this time for both men and women are tighter than ever and with not enough competition or head-to-head to establish a clear case either way. Except for Keegan's spot, the 1 man's spot between Roman and Nam and the 1 woman's spot between various women will be an exciting fight. I wonder what happens if Nationals results are tight. They sort of used 4CCs to decide the World spot for 2020 didn't they (even if it ultimately became moot).
They did, but the time frame between 4CC & the Olympics is too tight to be doing that sort of thing this year, and even more so because of ********* protocols. The Canadian Olympic Committee is going to want to make sure that all the athletes are named as early as possible to ensure the paperwork is in order for Chinese officials well before the team leaves Canada.
 

Colonel Green

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Also, the federation largely waited on making assignments until 4CC because of a whole cluster of atypical instability:
  • two of the three women on the national podium didn't have the World minimums (or senior minimums at all, in the case of Madeline), so they basically had to wait on that front;
  • Roman won nationals and the federation had serious doubts (subsequently validated) that he could be trusted with the one World spot given the stakes;
  • Walsh & Michaud unexpectedly beat Ilyushechkina & Bilodeau and they wanted to see if they would repeat that.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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8,262
Amanda Tobin needs to get an international assignment ASAP. She scored over 61 points at the October Skate Ontario hub (clean 3T+3T and 3loop). This would put her in the mix for a medal at nationals for sure. I know I'm the Canadian ladies uber and often have high praise for the Canadian women, but I've always thought Tobin had untapped potential and that she was one good competition away from being a contender nationally, so I'm happy to see this.

I haven't finished watching the stream yet (I missed it live, but the link is here: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x84tex4)
 

greenapple

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971
Does Tobin have a triple Lutz? If not, she probably won't be going anywhere because that is the bar Skate Canada has set for international assignments.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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8,262
Michelle Long has had several international assignments and she has never really attempted a triple triple or a triple lutz in competition, so I hope the lack of lutz would not stop someone like Tobin from getting an assignment.
 

mackiecat

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1,547
Thanks.

Then again the race this time for both men and women are tighter than ever and with not enough competition or head-to-head to establish a clear case either way. Except for Keegan's spot, the 1 man's spot between Roman and Nam and the 1 woman's spot between various women will be an exciting fight. I wonder what happens if Nationals results are tight. They sort of used 4CCs to decide the World spot for 2020 didn't they (even if it ultimately became moot).
To me the woman’s spot is Maddie’s barring any weird thing. After the Short yesterday in the October hub, Roman is looking like the man’s spot. Nam was beaten by Bennett Roman had greatly out scored Bennett at the other hubs ( over 20 points)
 
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greenapple

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971
Michelle Long has had several international assignments and she has never really attempted a triple triple or a triple lutz in competition, so I hope the lack of lutz would not stop someone like Tobin from getting an assignment.
Right - back in 2019. I can't remember where I read it or heard it, but I believe it was Madeline Schizas who said that the criteria this season was you had to have a triple Lutz to get an international.
 

Colonel Green

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That seems so 6.0ish...What if someone had L4 spins and a 3t3t but no 3z?
The opposite of 6.0 -- you need all the standard women's triple jumps to realistically be competitive now (well, honestly, at this point you probably need more than that, but the fed isn't expecting miracles).
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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8,262
Competitive for what though? Hendrickx finished 5th at worlds (4th in the free and very close to 4th overall) and she only does four different triples. It would be very short sighted to deny a skater like Tobin an international assignment for not doing a triple lutz. Especially when you compare the programs she put up at the last two Skate Ontario events compared to what the other Canadian skaters (not named Schizas or Ruiter) put out internationally this year.
 

Karen-W

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11,420
Competitive for what though? Hendrickx finished 5th at worlds (4th in the free and very close to 4th overall) and she only does four different triples. It would be very short sighted to deny a skater like Tobin an international assignment for not doing a triple lutz. Especially when you compare the programs she put up at the last two Skate Ontario events compared to what the other Canadian skaters (not named Schizas or Ruiter) put out internationally this year.
Well, this is Skatr Canada we are talking about. Never let it be said enough just how short-sighted they can be when it comes to getting their skaters out internationally to attain their TES minimums.
 

Colonel Green

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Competitive for what though?
The standard is meant to encourage people to get the big elements and eventually be able to compete for medals. Considering the way the current Canadian women’s field has fallen behind on tech, a little prodding isn’t out of place.

Hendrickx has the Lutz and flip, by comparison, which are the highest-value jumps other than the Axel.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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16,901
But the most important element, in my opinion, is a triple triple combination of any kind. Obviously a triple triple with a Lutz or a flip would be ideal, but a triple toe triple toe out does a triple flip or Lutz - double toe any day.

I think of the obsession with the 3z as a very 6.0 mentality. Under 6.0 the 3z was everything so we saw a lot of skaters do something that they called a 3z that was not very good. But once they had that jump, they could progress up the ranks sometimes even passing skaters with far superior skating skills and spins. IMO, IJS makes it possible to be competitive with a variety of well done elements. No one element is going to put you over the top.

Sorry to be so long-winded on this issue, but as a US ladies fan I see our skaters chasing 3z3t combo in the SP all the time. Some of them have gorgeous triple lutzes but they fail to maximize the GOE on these jumps because they're trying to put them in combination.

Of course the 3z is important, but it just seems crazy to keep someone at home if they could pull off a 5-6 triple free skate with at least level three spins and steps. There's no substitution for international competition. Skaters learn so much from these experiences.
 

Colonel Green

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But the most important element, in my opinion, is a triple triple combination of any kind. Obviously a triple triple with a Lutz or a flip would be ideal, but a triple toe triple toe out does a triple flip or Lutz - double toe any day.

I think of the obsession with the 3z as a very 6.0 mentality. Under 6.0 the 3z was everything so we saw a lot of skaters do something that they called a 3z that was not very good. But once they had that jump, they could progress up the ranks sometimes even passing skaters with far superior skating skills and spins. IMO, IJS makes it possible to be competitive with a variety of well done elements. No one element is going to put you over the top.

Sorry to be so long-winded on this issue, but as a US ladies fan I see our skaters chasing 3z3t combo in the SP all the time. Some of them have gorgeous triple lutzes but they fail to maximize the GOE on these jumps because they're trying to put them in combination.

Of course the 3z is important, but it just seems crazy to keep someone at home if they could pull off a 5-6 triple free skate with at least level three spins and steps. There's no substitution for international competition. Skaters learn so much from these experiences.
Basically any skater is expected to be able to get level 4s on spins; those are the easy points. Having level 4 spins isn't remarkable for someone seeking to compete internationally. Step levels frankly aren't worth enough, either, for it to be a point of distinction.

I agree that the Lutz by itself isn't enough to make you competitive, but neither is a triple-triple. Skate Canada has for years been dealing with a women's field that isn't keeping pace with the technical level; in this day and age, telling people they have to have all the triples (less the Axel) for the federation to spend money sending them out internationally really isn't much of a demand.
 

dramagrrl

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2,004
To me the woman’s spot is Maddie’s barring any weird thing. After the Short yesterday in the October hub, Roman is looking like the man’s spot. Nam was beaten by Bennett Roman had greatly out scored Bennett at the other hubs ( over 20 points)
This really belongs in the Canadian men's thread, but Nam handily won the FS in the October hub (by about 26 points) and his total, even with what seems to have been a poor SP (it looks like he popped his axel and only did a 3-2 combo), was higher than Roman's total at Nebelhorn. (Not that Roman had good skates at Nebelhorn, either, but it's not like one of them is that far ahead of the other at this point in the game.)
 

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