2020 Grand Prix series thread

[MacMadame]

Someone here crowing about the fact that the "not-Grand-Prix" is moving forward seems like she is planning on going.

She can crow all she wants but tickets aren't on sale.

The Orleans may be in a hotspot and it may still be in a hotspot in Oct. but it could be made into a bubble just like WDW is for basketball. (WDW is in FL which is also a shitshow right now.) If everyone involved in the event stays at the hotel, eats at the hotel, and skates at the Arena with no side trips, it could possibly be done. We'll see.

I should clarify that I am not saying the GP should go ahead no matter what or that every event will be safe. I am just objecting to the idea that if all the skaters can't participate, then none should. What the ISU is proposing is pretty much the best that can be done. Also, there are places that can hold events safely and they shouldn't be penalized because the entire world isn't safe yet.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I’m wondering if USFS will move SA to Colorado Springs. Athletes could stay at the OTC.

 

[skatfan]

She can crow all she wants but tickets aren't on sale.

The Orleans may be in a hotspot and it may still be in a hotspot in Oct. but it could be made into a bubble just like WDW is for basketball. (WDW is in FL which is also a shitshow right now.) If everyone involved in the event stays at the hotel, eats at the hotel, and skates at the Arena with no side trips, it could possibly be done. We'll see.

It could be done, but the money to do so is not there because this is US Figure Skating and not the NBA. If they don't sell tickets, how is any of this funded? To accomplish what the NBA is doing, everyone would need to come more than a week ahead of time and stay with a bubble that would not include mixing with other guests, diners, etc. and have constant testing the week before of all the participants, maybe even dining alone so as not to infect other participants. I can't imagine that judges and officials could do this, nor skaters and their coaches. Most of the time, the participants come only a couple of days before for competitions like this, which is nowhere near long enough to ensure that they are not infected before they arrive, particularly if they are flying.

I'd love to see some skating, but I'm guessing the "plans" in the US will look a lot like what schools have tried to convince parents is safe.

 

[Willin]

I realize how much folks miss seeing skating; hell, I MISS skating - I haven't been on the ice in almost 5 months because I have both asthma and hypertension, and I'm in my early 60s. My rink is open and they're following all the guidelines, I could go back, but I won't for a while, because I'm simply high risk. I've made myself content with the frank possibility that I won't be back until 2021, even not until well into 2021.

I'm also a physician, a medical educator who works as a medical writer and director, and I've been researching and writing on the BB continuously, so I have access to more sources and evidence than the average bear. My opinion on the Grand Prix events? Autumn is likely to be a time of either second waves of BB or the current wave continuing even in countries that have been doing better (and especially in the United States of "This is America, I'll do what I want and 'eff everyone else"). And that's the issue that @Orm Irian is trying to highlight - no matter how carefully you do this, you're going to put people at risk - not just the skaters, but their families, coaches, the judges, etc. My frank medical opinion? These competitions are not worth the risk - they could really do something virtual that would admittedly be much smaller but that could still be judged and livestreamed and still provide entertainment for the fans.

I definitely am looking at the beer burden from a different POV than most of you, but a more cautious POV is not invalid. I've seen WAY too much downplaying of the risks and harms of this disease, especially in the USA, even among good friends who are simply not handling the restrictions and inconveniences that are being designed to keep them alive and healthy. In the end, people's health and lives are not worth sports entertainment. PERIOD.

ETA: one more thing - @Tony Wheeler: airlines blocking off seats???? Yeah, some did for a while, but AA, United and others have now returned to flying at full capacity whenever possible. Southwest announced they will not even be cleaning armrests and seat belts between flights to shorten turnaround times. Take a mask, accept the risk, good luck.

As much as I want skating, I 100% agree. We have people skaters' ages being hospitalized for this - and even some in the ICU. There was nothing quite as surreal as upgrading a patient my own age with no history to ICU. My hospital has seen plenty of people coach/parent/official age die. And with travel? Even worse. It's a recipe for a tragic skating story.

I’m wondering if USFS will move SA to Colorado Springs. Athletes could stay at the OTC.

They did something similar with Champs Camp for years, so they might. It might be a solution to the cost issue as well, but idk how much it costs to board at OTC.
But as @skatfan said, somehow I doubt USFSA truly has a good plan and somehow I think they'll try to make us think their plan is "safe".

 

[Lacey]

Good luck, all who choose to go to Skate America, you're going to need it.

I'm thinking of anything and everything that is offered from the previously known as Skate America to any competition in the next few months on any continent as watching events, to be seen from my own home, either on tv or on line, CERTAINLY NOT IN PERSON and I will be very glad to have and get to see all that is offered any way.

 

[Alexa]

I’m wondering if USFS will move SA to Colorado Springs. Athletes could stay at the OTC.

I don’t think many skaters like the altitude. They were so happy that Champs Camp was in SoCal last year

 

[starrynight]

I can understand why people have misgivings.

The ISU has issued a vague 'business as usual but local' directive and then is still wondering out loud if it can hold a GPF in China. Not a word has been breathed about any actual protocols and I suspect it will be up to the individual federations.

Then we have some Feds who can't even source a podium that's not about to tip over (think disco podiums) let alone implement any kind of health and safety protocol.

 

[Yazmeen]

That's not what I was asking, though. I was asking the poster why they specifically felt at risk being in an ice rink (not a competition, but for leisure) but not other things that involved being around people at a relatively lower risk..

I live in PA north of Philly, and our BB numbers are still rising. I am not doing any indoor activities that require a certain amount of time be spent inside in an confined area of space around others - no restaurants, no skating, I’m doing my belly dance classes virtually online with my teacher and she’s going to keep that option available in the next session along with on-site dancing. Between long walks, dance and yoga, I’m actually in better shape than when I was skating, I’ve lost the weight I put on last year after a lot of dental work.

My husband is higher risk health wise than me and a few years older - I do the shopping and most errands, but those don’t put me on a situation like dance or skating where I’d be in one confined space for a certain of time and potentially close to others for an extended period - I can walk down another aisle in the supermarket! I did get my hair done recently and my stylist set me up in the shade outside in the open air while the color set before the haircut.

DH and I have had 2 trips postponed until next year plus an additional ladies trip for me (based on the locations not allowing US folks near them right now). We even gave up our usual weekend with a few friends in the mountains later this month because we can’t social distance in the house or on the boat. This will be our routine until we see a distinct and steady downturn in BB cases is our area and state. Skating and indoor recreation in a confined space over a period of time are not worth the risk to us at this time. That’s all.

 

[Carolla5501]

I cannot imagine the Olympic training center allowing these people to come in for a short stay do an event and leave. I think it is going to be someplace else.

That said I can see how this can be done without a whole lot of risk. The truth is that traveling is not that risky right now. In spite of what will now be said on here, the airplane is not that dangerous people. It’s probably got cleaner air and safer conditions than the rink where people are skating


So if you could do it someplace where the skaters pretty much stayed just with their coaches or family and isolated themselves from each other during practice etc. and you spread your judges out with enough space, you can social distance and make it work. You probably can’t have an audience but I can see this working. You also pretty much have to eat all your meals in your room and limit your interaction with anyone else. So you go from your room to the rink only with your coach who you’ve already been around for months. That’s it and I don’t know the skaters are willing to do that but if you did that you could probably make it work

Think about how golf has done it, that’s what they’ve done. They have limited their events where are the golfers are only in contact with people with the same people they’re always in contact with. They’re no longer in contact with other golfers, they’re no longer in contact with media etc. etc. They go to the official hotel, they get transported In individual cars etc. etc. You’re going have to kind of the same model. basically your skaters in a self-imposed bubbly the entire time he/she is at the event

The big problem is this is a lot more expensive to carry out and I don’t know that skating federations could afford it

 

[MacMadame]

The truth is that traveling is not that risky right now. In spite of what will now be said on here, the airplane is not that dangerous people. It’s probably got cleaner air and safer conditions than the rink where people are skating

What about the security lines and inside the airport though? That's my hesitation in flying.

Not that I plan to attend any skating events this year even if they do have spectators.

 

[Yazmeen]

My situation at my rink was ideal prior to the BB - early morning freestyle while kids were in school, usually with Just one other adult skater. But now I’m likely to be on the ice with kids doing hybrid school or learning virtually, who likely won’t wear masks on the ice - no thanks. I will monitor the situation thru a friend who works at the rink and go back when the BB numbers start more steadily decreasing and I hopefully won’t be skating in an unmasked crowd.

 

[overedge]

So if you could do it someplace where the skaters pretty much stayed just with their coaches or family and isolated themselves from each other during practice etc. and you spread your judges out with enough space, you can social distance and make it work. You probably can’t have an audience but I can see this working. You also pretty much have to eat all your meals in your room and limit your interaction with anyone else. So you go from your room to the rink only with your coach who you’ve already been around for months. That’s it and I don’t know the skaters are willing to do that but if you did that you could probably make it work.

Who makes the food? Who cleans the hotel? Who opens and closes the rink? Who delivers the supplies? Those are all people who are essential to making this plan work, in addition to other staff, and none of them are being isolated. They all do their jobs and then go home or go out, and interact with any number of other people before coming back. If any one of them gets the v*r*s it will be very easy for them to transmit it inside the "bubble".

Also, golf is played outdoors in the fresh air. Its competitions don't take place in an enclosed indoor space. The golfers might be isolated in a "bubble" but the sport itself is in a different setting with lower risk of transmission than an indoor skating rink.

 

[tony]

The thing that I am torn about with this whole thing is yes, I am higher risk. No, I'm not going to go to level 9 or 10 of the chart or whatever it is in terms of 'risk' involved. But there are some people around me that drive me absolutely crazy with this. I ALWAYS have a mask on the second I step outside my unit - my building still requires masks and limits on people in elevators and all of that, and even outdoors the city wants people to have masks on. I do it walking down the street, but 90% do not. And I'm in humid as hell Miami Beach, remember.

Then you have over the top situations: people approaching you on sidewalks that don't have masks on but get all bent out of shape and sigh deeply because I'm not choosing to step into the grass (or more likely, into shrubbery) for them to pass. Wear a damn mask and if you're THAT worried, and then you won't need to be sighing dramatically. Or better yet stay home altogether. I also was at the post office Friday, and it allows for 10 people inside at a time with adequate distancing achievable. There is a section that is for drop-offs only if you already have everything labeled (pretty sure this is standard across the USA), and I was unloading my packages when someone approached a clerk to do their business and started lashing out at me about how I was too close (wasn't, at all), even though I was there first, and we were wearing masks. The whole argument they had was that I wasn't requiring service and that I was in the way.

So the whole thing is, I get that people have their own ideas about what is safe and what isn't. The examples I just gave above most of you would laugh at the person or tell them to get a life, I'm guessing. But for other people, it literally is the end of the world because they think breathing in some air from however far apart, from both people wearing masks, means they now have CV. There was someone here IIRC that said they were even holding their breath on an elevator (with one other person) all while wearing a mask. And it goes back to my initial idea- if you feel it's unsafe, then don't go. But several of you are trying to throw this whole 'they are being forced!!! How would you feel?!' when we all know that's simply not the case. I would take the energy out on the government/cities allowing activities that are ASKING for problems rather than the ones who are doing everything they can to prevent them. I've given up on expecting every last person I know to sit at home week after week and not socialize with any friends.

Who makes the food? Who cleans the hotel? Who opens and closes the rink? Who delivers the supplies? Those are all people who are essential to making this plan work, in addition to other staff, and none of them are being isolated. They all do their jobs and then go home or go out, and interact with any number of other people before coming back. If any one of them gets the v*r*s it will be very easy for them to transmit it inside the "bubble".

And I'm going to ETA here- talking about all these variables of people working in hotels, rinks, etc. That's not different from the people working at home rinks or delivering your food or working in stores or doctors offices or hair salons or whatever else. You don't know what every last person is doing with their time unless you sit at home and avoid all contact with the world. But remember, some people have been forced to either work their essential jobs or make minimal to no unemployment to survive this entire time.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Does it? I don't see that from the announcement, but maybe so. Someone here crowing about the fact that the "not-Grand-Prix" is moving forward seems like she is planning on going.

Your post suggested that you thought people on this board would be going.

Who makes the food? Who cleans the hotel? Who opens and closes the rink? Who delivers the supplies? Those are all people who are essential to making this plan work, in addition to other staff, and none of them are being isolated. They all do their jobs and then go home or go out, and interact with any number of other people before coming back. If any one of them gets the v*r*s it will be very easy for them to transmit it inside the "bubble".

There have been many articles documenting the fact that surface transmission is unlikely, transmission through food is unlikely, and that it is safe to get take out of food and delivery of packages. How are the things you are talking about different? Yes, someone has to deliver the food. When I get pizza, someone delivers me food. This is incredibly low risk. Hotel rooms can be cleaned before the stay and then just towel service after that until the skaters leave. That's what most hotels are doing right now and staying in a hotel is also pretty low risk.

I wouldn't do this in Vegas, either. I would move it to somewhere with a lower case-load where there isn't a ton of tourist activity. If they aren't going to have a crowd, they don't need an arena. And they can require that skaters get tested. They can also suggest that anyone, especially older coaches, with pre-existing health concerns opt out.

Other sports have allowed people to opt out and many people have, and those sports have a LOT more control over their athletes and MUCH larger groupings. But I think it's good that the ISU is making a sensible suggestion with minimal travel rather than imagining that the grand prix can go on as normal and I'm glad that they are giving countries an option to try if their rates make it possible.

This is a really different situation than school or work where employers hold all the cards.

 

[overedge]

There have been many articles documenting the fact that surface transmission is unlikely, transmission through food is unlikely, and that it is safe to get take out of food and delivery of packages. How are the things you are talking about different?

I was talking about the idea of a "bubble" and the idea that somehow if the skaters, officials, etc. all stayed in a hotel and traveled by themselves to the rink and back, that they would be safe. What's different is that hotels and rinks have staff and other people in them, and those people aren't isolated. For example, even though major league baseball is (kind of) in a bubble, some MLB players were complaining last week that there were weddings taking place in the hotel they were staying at. And even though the players mostly stayed in their rooms and their food was delivered, there were un-socially-distanced wedding guests going all throughout the hotel and very few people wearing masks.

The point being that a "bubble" is not as secure and safe as it's intended to be.

 

[skatfan]

Think about how golf has done it, that’s what they’ve done. They have limited their events where are the golfers are only in contact with people with the same people they’re always in contact with. They’re no longer in contact with other golfers, they’re no longer in contact with media etc. etc. They go to the official hotel, they get transported In individual cars etc. etc. You’re going have to kind of the same model. basically your skaters in a self-imposed bubbly the entire time he/she is at the event

From an article on golf's COVID procedures:

The plan for players, caddies and various support personnel is to receive a pre-travel screening test that will be administered again when arriving on site. At that time, likely at a tour-designated hotel, an RT-PCR nasal swab or saliva test for COVID-19 will be administered, with results expected within 48 hours.

Players will be allowed to practice on site while awaiting test results, with that turnaround expected to be faster as time passes. Each day, there will be screening that includes a questionnaire and a thermal test.

Like a drug test, taking a COVID-19 test will be required to compete.

and

The COVID-19 test will also be required of any players or caddies who elect to travel between events on a charter arranged by the tour.

The tour expects to be administering about 400 tests per week.

"We feel confident we will be able to conduct our testing in a manner that is not taking way from the community," said Andy Levinson, the tour's senior vice president of tournament administration. "We will be providing our own supplies and sourcing all of that as well."

Summary
1. The requirement to be tested before arriving at the event - everyone involved
2. Tests to be conducted by the PGA while there - again everyone, and they are guaranteeing results in 48 hours
3. Monitoring of all personnel each day by temperature check and interview
4. A positive test for a player or multiple players will not necessarily cause the event to be stopped. -- Well, that's comforting to know.
5. Isolation by all is critical.

I'll let everyone think about whether the USFSA can be up to speed and implement this in the next eight weeks.

 

[nickp]

ISU should do a figure skating bubble just for the drama Carol Lane and Brian Orser in The Bubble

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I’m glad the ISU found some way to make something happen. And who knows, it still may not even go forward but I’m glad they at least tried!

And having said that ....Vegas is the last place I’m going to travel to. That crazy mayor put Vegas on lockdown for a whole three minutes.

And indoor casinos and buffets? Girl please - I’d be in my room watching Golden Girls all day and night. Not going anywhere!!

 

[Carolla5501]

What about the security lines and inside the airport though? That's my hesitation in flying.

Not that I plan to attend any skating events this year even if they do have spectators.

So my brother had to travel last week. Line for security at Atlanta airport, which is one of the busiest in the country, nonexistent. He sent me a picture of himself waiting for the plane. There was nobody within 10 feet of him and everyone was wearing a mask because that’s the law in our airport. The airlines are going to “if you don’t wear a mask on our plane you aren’t getting home.“

Every morning my local television station tells me how long the lines are for the security line. I don’t think I have seen them extend past the standard “less than 15 minutes since March”

Right now, there are so few people traveling that the airport is also not really an issue. It could change by October but I’m not really optimistic about that to be honest

 

[screech]

Yes, that’s what I mean — effectively he’s can’t attend because he wouldn’t be able to train/practise for weeks before the event. It makes a lot more sense for him to go to SkAm in those circumstances.

Hasn't he trained in Alberta and Ontario for periods in the past? I wouldn't be surprised to see him do so for a few weeks before the event.
Though Skate Canada may want to send him to Skate America, since it doesn't put their (in theory) two top men against one another.

Also, is Gogolev currently in Canada or the US? I'm guessing the JGP being cancelled will definitely make the decision of whether to move to senior a lot easier...

 

[rosewood]

Christopher Caluza (PHI) for making a GP series debut! ? ?

Considering ISU is planning that GP series will have real skating in person and the final will be postponed as an article which I posted earlier said so, the source(s) which Japanese media contact may be sorta reliable (at least more than Hersh's). A Jiji-Press writer tweeted yesterday that he learned by an interview with someone involved in the party that ISU is considering GP final which works as a Beijing Olys' test event will have 12 skaters/teams instead of usual top 6 skaters/teams, also there's a possibility that the final will be held in the end of February depending on the environment with CV.
https://twitter.com/wdtkfm/status/1290944582599860226

 

[b-man]

A poster on the other forum reports Nevada is in phase 2 of the lockdown, prohibiting crowds larger than 50 people. There is no timeline for moving into phase 3. So for now, SA will not have spectators.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

None of the events have happened yet. Let’s see who can actually come (elderly judges anyone?)

BTW - The attitude about Vegas visitors by the city leaders is that it’s fine for folks to visit for 2-3 days because they don’t appear while sick in town and go home and are sick there and spread it away from Vegas. So have a lovely time in a city that cares squat about your health.

I have plane tickets and a hotel in vegas and expect limited tickets will be available closer to the event.

I'm an "essential worker"--such a bullshit title, by the way--and know very well how to keep myself and others as safe as possible. yeah I'm taking a risk by going to vegas, but I'd argue that risk isn't substantially more than going to the grocery store or salon.

In my experience the people who are fortunate enough to work from home (usually white and upper income, but that's anecdotal) are the ones most likely to dictate shutting everything down to an excessive extent. aren't the peons (oh sorry I mean essential heroes) who deliver their food and work in shithole amazon warehouses allowed to have some sort of life, too?

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

None of the events have happened yet. Let’s see who can actually come (elderly judges anyone?)

The judges may be a real issue. The judges in my region of the US, most of whom are elderly, aren't even willing to travel to judge tests or events in my region, never mind going to Vegas. Likewise the technical specialists, although a lot younger than most judges, aren't at all willing to travel right now. So finding enough international level judges for all events may be an issue, at least in the US, but we'll have to see.

 

[thvu]

The judges may be a real issue. The judges in my region of the US, most of whom are elderly, aren't even willing to travel to judge tests or events in my region, never mind going to Vegas. Likewise the technical specialists, although a lot younger than most judges, aren't at all willing to travel right now. So finding enough international level judges for all events may be an issue, at least in the US, but we'll have to see.

I don’t think the ISU is going to expect officials to be international level. China has no ISU or international level technical specialists for Ice Dance. Japan only has 2. They’ll have to use domestic-level officials. Japan doesn’t even have enough judges to field an ice dance panel.

 

[Vagabond]

A poster on the other forum reports Nevada is in phase 2 of the lockdown, prohibiting crowds larger than 50 people. There is no timeline for moving into phase 3. So for now, SA will not have spectators.

Twelve (or twenty) skaters, a judging panel of twelve, a referee, a camera operator, and ten or so coaches, and that's getting close fifty people right there. Can Petit Prix America stay under the limit?

 

[mjb52]

Aren't casinos open in Nevada?

 

[b-man]

Aren't casinos open in Nevada?

Yes, they opened June 4. Must be different rules for arenas, conventions??

 

[overedge]

A casino isn't an event. IIRC the rules on gathering sizes apply to scheduled events like weddings, parties, sports games, etc.
Also, the union that represents the majority of Vegas casino workers is suing the casinos for not adequately ensuring the workers in the casinos are safe.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

A poster on the other forum reports Nevada is in phase 2 of the lockdown, prohibiting crowds larger than 50 people. There is no timeline for moving into phase 3. So for now, SA will not have spectators.

I wouldn't assume SA will be in Nevada.